339 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

Making changes to the Battle of the Citadel. Reworking the collectors a bit in ME 2. Change Arrival to better justify the Reaper invasion and the beginning of ME 2.

If possible, add a few levels in ME 2 showing off shipyards, planetary shields, electronic warfare equipment, that sort of thing. Give the player a sense of the progress being made. Alter a lot of dialogue with Council.

I thought you were against preparation being made for the Reapers?

[CynicalShep]

spirosz wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

David7204 wrote...

To make things ideal, some changes to ME 1 and 2 would be necessary.

Then you'd have to go into it knowing that you're making a trilogy. Writers didn't have that privilege. 

Wait, they did know.  Losing and getting new writers is the problem, IMO. 

Sort of, because they never wrote the plot for all 3 games. They had some (really) raw outlines and ideas but that was about it. That and the DE leak and the changes in the team.

[David7204]

No, I'm just against magic preparations. I don't want super-technology or super-fleets, or the conflict solved because of politicians pulling trillions from nowhere. And none of this would make a difference from a meta-standpoint anyway. The Reapers are still going to bulldoze through the galaxy. It's only to better justify conventional victory to the player.

Modifié par David7204, 27 août 2013 - 03:14 .

[Iakus]

CynicalShep wrote...

iakus wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

M25105 wrote...

I wanted it to end by blowing up the reapers, toasting beer over their corpses, some funeral scene for Anderson and a speech about honouring the dead. Then a big party following Shepard walking of with Liara back to his place.

You know, a normal sane ending.

By normal and sane you mean terribly boring and cliche. 

And borderline illogical, given the scale of the enemies.

Guess I should quit my playthrough of the Baldur's Gate games now then, since by the end I'll be slaying ancient dragons, demon princes, and demigods.

Such a totally illogical ending, what was I thinking!

Most videogames wouldn't exist if realism was to be implemented. Still, there is "unlikely" and there is the realm of "lolwut". Beating the Reapers conventionally would be more of the second if ME1 is anything to go by.

WHo said anything about conventional means?  

You don't need that to beat the Repaers in a way that lets Shepard mourn the dead, celebrste with the living, and not be forced to dance to the Reapers tune before committing suicide.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

No, I'm just against magic preparations. I don't want super-technology or super-fleets, or the conflict solved because of politicians pulling trillions from nowhere. And none of this would make a difference from a meta-standpoint anyway. The Reapers are still going to bulldoze through the galaxy. It's only to better justify conventional victory to the player.

So, the galaxy gets steamrolled, but conventional victory is still possible?

[David7204]

Part of the galaxy gets steamrolled at first. Asari, salarian, and quarian space are pretty much untouched for the majority of the game, as is the Citadel and space surrounding it.

[CynicalShep]

@ iakus
Truth is, I just don't see how they could have written this after establishing that Sovereign alone can tear apart an entire fleet.

[Seboist]

David7204 wrote...

Part of the galaxy gets steamrolled at first. Asari, salarian, and quarian space are pretty much untouched for the majority of the game, as is the Citadel and space surrounding it.

Lol, that makes the Reapers even more a joke than they already are in ME3.

Bravo!

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

Part of the galaxy gets steamrolled at first. Asari, salarian, and quarian space are pretty much untouched for the majority of the game, as is the Citadel and space surrounding it.

And why would they have any real chance against the Reapers?

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

Part of the galaxy gets steamrolled at first. Asari, salarian, and quarian space are pretty much untouched for the majority of the game, as is the Citadel and space surrounding it.

"quarian" space?

And why would the Reapers ignore Citadel Space, the region of the galaxy they have the most interest in taking?

[CynicalShep]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Part of the galaxy gets steamrolled at first. Asari, salarian, and quarian space are pretty much untouched for the majority of the game, as is the Citadel and space surrounding it.

And why would they have any real chance against the Reapers?

I reckon that they would need very many dreadnoughts for that. Thousands, at least 

[Iakus]

CynicalShep wrote...

@ iakus
Truth is, I just don't see how they could have written this after establishing that Sovereign alone can tear apart an entire fleet.

Given we wasted so much mowing down various mercs in ME2, we did need a Crucible-like device.

But that still doesn't mean Shepard should be doomed to some horrific act and probable death just to fit some arbitrary definition of "bittersweet"

[SkedarXX]

I was hoping for more of a dark ending with the reapers winning and killing Shepard and his crew. And if that wasn't given I was wanting a huge variety of different ending changing drastically off of each little choice you made in the other games like lets say you helped someone in need of your assistance in the first ME. He/she might of had connections into the alliance so when you are rushing towards the beam ( which I still think the whole beam is stupid ) a few ships will shoot at Harbinger and help you get there. Even something like that which would not have much of an impact on the ending itself would still be cool, like you would hear over the radio that they have broken off from the fleet and are on there way to assist. But think if something small like helping someone find something they are looking for on the Citadel could make it easier to get to a major objective how awesome would that be if some of the huge things you have done would have drastically changed the final outcome. But at this point I am rambling and if you have read this far thank you for taking the time to read my opinion.

[CynicalShep]

iakus wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

@ iakus
Truth is, I just don't see how they could have written this after establishing that Sovereign alone can tear apart an entire fleet.

Given we wasted so much mowing down various mercs in ME2, we did need a Crucible-like device.

But that still doesn't mean Shepard should be doomed to some horrific act and probable death just to fit some arbitrary definition of "bittersweet"

The last part should be optional, I agree.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I think "Quarian" space being referred to is the Attican Traverse and the Terminus. It's not really "Quarian" space but simply where the Quarians hang out.

So, David, regarding this preparation not being magical, I'm assuming here that we're going by the council taking the reaper threat somewhat seriously as evidenced in the Citadel Archives.

Spending doesn't come out of thin air, although it seems as though it has for the past 33 years around here, and it did during WWII. But I'm guessing we're talking about tax hikes across Council Space and a military buildup.

I know we've had the discussion about the "dreadnought" thing before, and the thanix thing before. People do need to be made aware that retrofitting ships with thanix like the Normandy was in ME2 is not a bad thing. This would also mean upgrading the drive cores. They ignore kinetic barriers which is why the reapers use them. The reapers also use kinetic barriers which is why it takes four dreadnoughts firing their STANDARD main guns to take down the shields. Upgrading weapons to thanix + upgrading drive cores so that the ships can handle a larger weapon would not be a bad thing, and they could do serious damage to the reapers.

Preparing also doesn't mean simply building more ships. Maybe one might want to build more shipyards elsewhere during the three years so that when the reapers arrive and hit the home worlds one can still build ships to replace the ones you lose. Dreadnoughts take a lot of time to build, but you can crank out smaller ships, and with enough of them focusing on a reaper they can take it out if they have the proper weaponry.

Earth also has a strong magnetic field. A while back we discussed the use of nuclear weapons. Thermonuclear weapons detonated in a magnetic field will create an EMP, so some ships might want to carry at least tactical nukes. While they might not do anything to a reaper ship, even a 1 kt weapon will create a pulse that would get rid of a bunch of those pesky occuli.

Still the Systems Alliance and the Batarians are going to get crushed. The Turians are going to have a major siege going on.

Making peace between the Geth and the Quarians is the smart thing to do. Killing off either one of them if you can get a conventional victory is not very intelligent. Killing the heretics will make peace easier to achieve.

There was a plan by the Salarians to uplift the Yahg and use them for shock troops against the reapers.

Things like this.

[Ridwan]

Eterna5 wrote...

M25105 wrote...

I wanted it to end by blowing up the reapers, toasting beer over their corpses, some funeral scene for Anderson and a speech about honouring the dead. Then a big party following Shepard walking of with Liara back to his place.

You know, a normal sane ending.

By normal and sane you mean terribly boring and cliche. 

Because Casper the retarded ghost boy makes so much more sense right? It's not like the other games ended on a bad ass note, right? Oh wait they did. We don't want some lame ass art crap (and I don't classify games as art either, it's a toy, that way too many people here are afraid to admit they enjoy cause of the stigma attached to it, so games gets labelled as art) and it has shown.

[SilJeff]

I am okay with the Post EC and Leviathan ending, but I will gladly accept a better one. I think it is okay/acceptable, not great, and not outstanding. Although, I think the Destroy/Control/Synthesis were just fine as options, but they should not have been the "best-case" choice. I am no writer, so I won't go into detail what I think it should have been, but as I am fine with the catalyst/crucible/etc existing, I will keep them, but add others.

I won't write a replacement ending, but this I will say:

Replace Priority: Earth with a true grand-scale final mission, that is bigger than any mission in the past three games. This mission will have lots of possible outcomes.

1. Worst-case outcome: NO choices like the D/C/S/R one [you don't even make it to the catalyst and the crucible got destroyed in the battle], but a "Reapers win and Harvest/cycles continue"

2. Bad-case outcome that is slightly better than the worst-case: NO choices like the D/C/S/R one. You make it to the catalyst, but the crucible has been damaged to the point where the docking damaged the catalyst, causing it to be glitchy. The crucible fires after a broken conversation with the catalyst without being able to choose between D/C/S/R. The crucible's shot messes up and takes out a lot of what's left of your forces and doesn't hurt the reapers enough to mortally wound them. Your forces after getting hit by the crucible are no match for the reapers, and they complete the harvest, BUT what damage [which like I said was not enough to stop the reapers in our cycle] the reapers did take from the crucible causes them to be weaker in the next cycle, allowing for the next cycle to put an end to them.

3. Middle-case outcome: This is basically exactly what we have in the game already. The crucible took some damage, but not enough to affect the catalyst, so we get the full conversation with it. We also made it to the catalyst alone [with Anderson dying just before like he does in the actual game) and get the D/C/S/R choice.

4. Good-case outcome (better than middle, but not the best) I added this just to have five tiers of outcomes, so sorry if this outcome ends up sounding stupid: No D/C/S/R choice. The Crucible takes some damage, but not enough to affect the catalyst. However, Shepard does not make it up there alone. A tech expert (I call him/her the tech expert for the sake of making it easier to type, but all he/she is is one of your Squadmates) also makes it to the catalyst. During the conversation, the tech expert attempts to hack into the catalyst (in order for the Catalyst to fire the Crucible without the "side affects" like Geth/EDI dying, forced Synthesis, forced Control, etc. But during that conversation, the Catalyst notices the hacking gets mad and attacks. We get a boss fight with the Catalyst [not exactly sure how it would go, but I imagine you'd basically be "fighting the room", since the Catalyst is software], but you have to face it alone as the tech expert is still trying to hack the Catalyst and when we win, the catalyst is destroyed, but the tech expert dies in the fight [because since you're fighting it alone, it is able to take out the tech expert]. This causes a misfire in the Crucible since both the catalyst and the tech expert are gone. The reapers are gone, but so is a large number of your forces as well as Shepard himself. But of course, this "large number" isn't large enough to cause civilization to be doomed by any means.

5. Best-case outcome: No D/C/S/R choice. The Crucible takes little to no damage at all, and Shepard along with both squadmates and a couple of other people make it to the Catalyst. The Catalyst has its conversation with you like normal (but your squadmates are reacting to what it has to say like they normally do), but during it, the other people from London attempt to hack the Catalyst like in the Good-Case Outcome. Once you finish your conversation, the Catalyst notices the hacking attempt and attacks. You get the same boss fight as in the Good-Case Outcome, but instead of fighting it alone, you fight it with both of your squadmates. This allows us to defeat the boss without the boss killing the hacking team. With the Catalyst defeated without losing the hackers, the Crucible is able to fire without misfiring, allowing everyone on the Citadel (Shepard, your Squadmates, the London hacking team) to live, as well as the large number who die in the Good-Case Outcome to live.


Other people (like your ME2 squaddies, the Krogan, Turians, Quarian fleet, Geth, etc) could die in the Priority: Earth, but that is a different subject, so I won't go into it. And another note, I would change the model of the Catalyst used in conversations from the child to a virtual model of a Leviathan [not full-sized of course] or something.

Modifié par SilJeff, 27 août 2013 - 05:11 .

[dreamgazer]

M25105 wrote...

Because Casper the retarded ghost boy makes so much more sense right? It's not like the other games ended on a bad ass note, right? Oh wait they did. We don't want some lame ass art crap (and I don't classify games as art either, it's a toy, that way too many people here are afraid to admit they enjoy cause of the stigma attached to it, so games gets labelled as art) and it has shown.

Speak for yourself. 

I consider videogames to be an artform, despite being completely comfortable with the fact that I enjoy them as interactive entertainment.  And I would, in fact, prefer "art crap" over most of the alternatives I've read. 

Better, more polished art crap, of course. 

[SlottsMachine]

dreamgazer wrote...

Speak for yourself. 

I consider videogames to be an artform, despite being completely comfortable with the fact that I enjoy them as interactive entertainment.  And I would, in fact, prefer "art crap" over most of the alternatives I've read. 

Better, more polished art crap, of course. 

One hundred percent this, especially that last bit. 

[Ridwan]

dreamgazer wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Because Casper the retarded ghost boy makes so much more sense right? It's not like the other games ended on a bad ass note, right? Oh wait they did. We don't want some lame ass art crap (and I don't classify games as art either, it's a toy, that way too many people here are afraid to admit they enjoy cause of the stigma attached to it, so games gets labelled as art) and it has shown.

Speak for yourself. 

I consider videogames to be an artform, despite being completely comfortable with the fact that I enjoy them as interactive entertainment.  And I would, in fact, prefer "art crap" over most of the alternatives I've read. 

Better, more polished art crap, of course. 

When over 90% of people voting on polls showed that they hated the ending, then I don't speak for myself.

Putting a 100 page lore manual next to a GI-Joe action figure doesn't make it art either, it's still a toy.

[FlamingBoy]

Honestly when it comes to art, my personal definition of it comes down to; the integrity of the product in its entirety must outweigh that of monetary or social (including gay characters for the purpose of being politically correct) desires.

Mass effect failed in that in every shape and form.

[dreamgazer]

M25105 wrote...

When over 90% of people voting on polls showed that they hated the ending, then I don't speak for myself.

Putting a 100 page lore manual next to a GI-Joe action figure doesn't make it art either, it's still a toy.

I disliked the ending's execution too, but you sure as shit don't speak for me. 

And I'll just ignore the second bit of your statement. 

[SlottsMachine]

Dreamy's getting fired up! I like it.

[Redbelle]

General Slotts wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Speak for yourself. 

I consider videogames to be an artform, despite being completely comfortable with the fact that I enjoy them as interactive entertainment.  And I would, in fact, prefer "art crap" over most of the alternatives I've read. 

Better, more polished art crap, of course. 

One hundred percent this, especially that last bit. 

Personally, I@m ok with the games as art thing, provided the developer's don't fall into the trap of considering their games as art as they make them.

I prefer developers to consider themselves as craftsman. People who are focused on their art. Not people who think that they're target audience are going to love the work because it speaks on so many fronts.

ME1 and 2 were works of art as games because the Dev's put alot of time thinking about how the gamer would intereact with the content. ME3 just disappoint's as the final entry. An dev focused on artistic licence may have come up with the Catalyst. A dev focused on delivering a player derived gameplay experience would have spent time developing something that would have more more thematically appropriate.

[dreamgazer]

General Slotts wrote...

Dreamy's getting fired up! I like it.

It just annoys me to see folks reducing labored, creative output to mere products. Once you start doing that, you're sure to get even shallower pieces of work.  Art vs. Product is far from a black and white dichotomy. 

Modifié par dreamgazer, 27 août 2013 - 05:45 .