339 réponses à ce sujet

[D Wrecks]

Crucible should have been an actual conventional weapon with the power to shear Reapers in half. Also, Extended Cut and Leviathan sure did shove it down our throats that the indoctrination angle is a total no-go, but I still like to consider it when I reflect on the ending.

[Eterna]

FlamingBoy wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

M25105 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Because Casper the retarded ghost boy makes so much more sense right? It's not like the other games ended on a bad ass note, right? Oh wait they did. We don't want some lame ass art crap (and I don't classify games as art either, it's a toy, that way too many people here are afraid to admit they enjoy cause of the stigma attached to it, so games gets labelled as art) and it has shown.

Speak for yourself. 

I consider videogames to be an artform, despite being completely comfortable with the fact that I enjoy them as interactive entertainment.  And I would, in fact, prefer "art crap" over most of the alternatives I've read. 

Better, more polished art crap, of course. 

When over 90% of people voting on polls showed that they hated the ending, then I don't speak for myself.

Putting a 100 page lore manual next to a GI-Joe action figure doesn't make it art either, it's still a toy.

Yes a BSN poll takes into account the millions of people who played ME3, bravo.

Sample method aka sampling

Should I even bother mentioning that the poll in question was created before the EC was released and that a subsequent study found that the majority was generally favourable to it? 

Nah, wouldn't wan't to crush your delusions. 

Modifié par Eterna5, 27 août 2013 - 11:30 .

[AlanC9]

FlamingBoy wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Yes a BSN poll takes into account the millions of people who played ME3, bravo.

Sample method aka sampling

BSN polls are the opposite of sampling. Don't use words if you don't know what they mean.

[FlamingBoy]

Eterna5 wrote...


Should I even bother mentioning that the poll in question was created before the EC was released and that a subsequent study found that the majority was generally favourable to the ending after it? 

Nah, wouldn't wan't to crush your delusions. 

There was a study?! Like an actual study from a reputable university source whos job is primarly to search up the dissent of video game movements! Please show me!

[FlamingBoy]

AlanC9 wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Yes a BSN poll takes into account the millions of people who played ME3, bravo.

Sample method aka sampling

BSN polls are the opposite of sampling. Don't use words if you don't know what they mean.

I know what they mean thank you very much Perhaps you should learn the meaning of the word opposite
Edit: hint, why is a bsn poll specifically opposite to sampling

I could have been more detailed in my explanation in my previous post but I saw no purpose to put in an effort to the arrogant post before me.

Modifié par FlamingBoy, 27 août 2013 - 10:20 .

[Eterna]

FlamingBoy wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...


Should I even bother mentioning that the poll in question was created before the EC was released and that a subsequent study found that the majority was generally favourable to the ending after it? 

Nah, wouldn't wan't to crush your delusions. 

There was a study?! Like an actual study from a reputable university source whos job is primarly to search up the dissent of video game movements! Please show me!

Not from a university, it is a video game, don't be stupid.

However, it was incredibly extensive and Bioware themselves read it as a source of feedback. (They even tweeted about it). Furthermore, the surveys and questionnaires on the study were posted on this site for additional participants, it was also conducted by people who do have quite a bit of knowledge and experience conducting studies. 

Modifié par Eterna5, 27 août 2013 - 10:23 .

[Mcfly616]

Why even bring up Poll results at all? No matter which way they lean, they don't even represent anything that amounts to more than a fraction of a percent of the total amount of people that played ME3.

[FlamingBoy]

Eterna5 wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...


Should I even bother mentioning that the poll in question was created before the EC was released and that a subsequent study found that the majority was generally favourable to the ending after it? 

Nah, wouldn't wan't to crush your delusions. 

There was a study?! Like an actual study from a reputable university source whos job is primarly to search up the dissent of video game movements! Please show me!

Not from a university, it is a video game, don't be stupid.

However, it was incredibly extensive and Bioware themselves read it as a source of feedback. (They even tweeted about it).  I believe it was also conducted by people who do have quite a bit of knowledge and experience conducting studies. 

You don't be stupid, see calling people names is mean:P

Post the "extensive" study my friend, by people who you "believe" are "knowledgable and experienced" in conducting it.
Far out, its already falling apart:P

Modifié par FlamingBoy, 27 août 2013 - 10:24 .

[Eterna]

FlamingBoy wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...


Should I even bother mentioning that the poll in question was created before the EC was released and that a subsequent study found that the majority was generally favourable to the ending after it? 

Nah, wouldn't wan't to crush your delusions. 

There was a study?! Like an actual study from a reputable university source whos job is primarly to search up the dissent of video game movements! Please show me!

Not from a university, it is a video game, don't be stupid.

However, it was incredibly extensive and Bioware themselves read it as a source of feedback. (They even tweeted about it).  I believe it was also conducted by people who do have quite a bit of knowledge and experience conducting studies. 

You don't be stupid, see calling people names is mean:P

Post the "extensive" study my friend, by people who you "believe" are "knowledgable and experienced" in conducting it.
Far out, its already falling apart:P

http://www.mediafire...cccy9p2za55ecz5

Have fun.

Modifié par Eterna5, 27 août 2013 - 10:26 .

[FlamingBoy]

Just out of curiosity, I know I am reaching but is their another study to concur with their findings.

You know obviously since you take these guys at their word as "knowledgeable" people who can conduct studies.

[Mcfly616]

Lol at the Love Interest chart....


Liara is chosen more than all the other characters combined (it seems). Yet, she's the most verbally bashed character around these parts. Just shows that vocal BSNers arent a representation of everybody's feelings towards the game.

[ruggly]

I'm not sure, but if we had to stick with the three choices I would at least have explored them more throughout the games. And I'd make it so there's a tier of EMS that allows Shepard to live in each ending, minus refuse (and possibly control, it makes sense for Shepard to die in that). It would just be like 3100 EMS is destroy, and 3500 for Synthesis or something. I don't know, at least this way it could take into account people who finish the game with a lot more EMS than is required. People will probably hate this idea, but I don't really care.

[Eterna]

FlamingBoy wrote...

Just out of curiosity, I know I am reaching but is their another study to concur with their findings.

You know obviously since you take these guys at their word as "knowledgeable" people who can conduct studies.

If you're going to take that 90% BSN poll about the original ending at face value then there is no logical reason for you to not take this one at face value. 

The EC, while still retaining some problems, was largely a sucess. I'm sorry you can't deal with it. 

Modifié par Eterna5, 27 août 2013 - 10:43 .

[Tonymac]

ruggly wrote...

I'm not sure, but if we had to stick with the three choices I would at least have explored them more throughout the games. And I'd make it so there's a tier of EMS that allows Shepard to live in each ending, minus refuse (and possibly control, it makes sense for Shepard to die in that). It would just be like 3100 EMS is destroy, and 3500 for Synthesis or something. I don't know, at least this way it could take into account people who finish the game with a lot more EMS than is required. People will probably hate this idea, but I don't really care.

I have well over 10K EMS.  Can my Shepard live?

[FlamingBoy]

Some interesting questions he brings up, I am just going to cut up excerpts of their summary for ever one

"Why did players have to complain so long and loud to get what seems like 'the bare minimum of what an ending should have been' on release?"

"Time is supposed to heal all wounds, but approximately six months later, the general opinion of the original ending remains very poor."
Please notice this is the original ending, not the EC

"Of course the elephant in the room is the Catalyst, so let's look at how opinions of him have changed with the EC: Nearly 42.5% of respondents felt they could understand the Catalyst's motivations and purpose, less than 1 person in 3 could follow the logic of the Catalyst(29.8%)"

1/3 isn't a majority




"To simplify the discussion about the ending down to happy endings, artistic merit taking precedence over narrative exposition, and ‘entitled’ players wanting too much is both counter-productive and just plain wrong"



This is probably the most important


"but for the majority it seems fair to summarise: There is appreciation for theissues that were addressed and disappointment that so many issues were left unresolved. Future missteps are a luxury this series can ill afford."

Dissapointment is key to that paragraph.


I like this one, their final paragraphs

"But there is one clear fact – do nothing and nothing happens. We decided to help 'transmit' fan opinions, trying to filter through the noise in the hopes that Bioware would listen. Bioware did listen. How much was heard is up for debate; but we got our words to where they needed to be. There were changes that culminated in the Extended Cut. Did we have any impact? That’s not really the point. The point is – we all who wrote in forums, joined ME3 initiatives, participated in surveys, wrote emails, sent letters, shouted from rooftops or just banged the PC keyboard in solo rage against the darkening tide … we did something. And something happened. A correlation – not necessarily cause and effect, true. But this is true: If no-one had complained, critiqued or went all ‘whiney’ then you can bet your sweet patootie nothing would have happened. And for us, that’s enough."

[FlamingBoy]

Eterna5 wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

Just out of curiosity, I know I am reaching but is their another study to concur with their findings.

You know obviously since you take these guys at their word as "knowledgeable" people who can conduct studies.

If you're going to take that 90% BSN poll about the original ending at face value then there is no logical reason for you to not take this one at face value. 

The EC, while still retaining some problems, was largely a sucess. I'm sorry you can't deal with it. 

aren't you just a little ray of sunshine.

If you don't have a study to concur just say you don't.

Edit: your last sentence is not in correlation with the study I think "improvement" is a better word.

Modifié par FlamingBoy, 27 août 2013 - 10:48 .

[Eterna]

FlamingBoy wrote...

Some interesting questions he brings up, I am just going to cut up excerpts of their summary for ever one

"Why did players have to complain so long and loud to get what seems like 'the bare minimum of what an ending should have been' on release?"

"Time is supposed to heal all wounds, but approximately six months later, the general opinion of the original ending remains very poor."
Please notice this is the original ending, not the EC

"Of course the elephant in the room is the Catalyst, so let's look at how opinions of him have changed with the EC: Nearly 42.5% of respondents felt they could understand the Catalyst's motivations and purpose, less than 1 person in 3 could follow the logic of the Catalyst(29.8%)"

1/3 isn't a majority




"To simplify the discussion about the ending down to happy endings, artistic merit taking precedence over narrative exposition, and ‘entitled’ players wanting too much is both counter-productive and just plain wrong"



This is probably the most important


"but for the majority it seems fair to summarise: There is appreciation for theissues that were addressed and disappointment that so many issues were left unresolved. Future missteps are a luxury this series can ill afford."

Dissapointment is key to that paragraph.


I like this one, their final paragraphs

"But there is one clear fact – do nothing and nothing happens. We decided to help 'transmit' fan opinions, trying to filter through the noise in the hopes that Bioware would listen. Bioware did listen. How much was heard is up for debate; but we got our words to where they needed to be. There were changes that culminated in the Extended Cut. Did we have any impact? That’s not really the point. The point is – we all who wrote in forums, joined ME3 initiatives, participated in surveys, wrote emails, sent letters, shouted from rooftops or just banged the PC keyboard in solo rage against the darkening tide … we did something. And something happened. A correlation – not necessarily cause and effect, true. But this is true: If no-one had complained, critiqued or went all ‘whiney’ then you can bet your sweet patootie nothing would have happened. And for us, that’s enough."

None of that changes the fact that the EC was still more positively recieved than negatively recieved. 

You are no longer 90%, I'm so sorry. 

[Eterna]

FlamingBoy wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

Just out of curiosity, I know I am reaching but is their another study to concur with their findings.

You know obviously since you take these guys at their word as "knowledgeable" people who can conduct studies.

If you're going to take that 90% BSN poll about the original ending at face value then there is no logical reason for you to not take this one at face value. 

The EC, while still retaining some problems, was largely a sucess. I'm sorry you can't deal with it. 

aren't you just a little ray of sunshine.

If you don't have a study to concur just say you don't.

Edit: your last sentence is not in correlation with the study I think "improvement" is a better word.

The mean for the ratings for the EC was 6. That is above mediocre. 

[FlamingBoy]

Eterna5 wrote...


None of that changes the fact that the EC was still more positively recieved than negatively recieved. 

You are no longer 90%, I'm so sorry. 

Well actually it puts alot of what your saying into perspective, for one that its not true. Well actually half truths.

What it actually says is the ""but for the majority it seems fair to summarise: There is appreciation
for theissues that were addressed and disappointment that so many issues
were left unresolved"

As for being in the 90 percent, thats a none issue, You tried to characterize this study as proof of an EC huge success. All I got from it is people are happier than they were.

Yes the EC was more positively recieved but that does not mean it was positiviely recieved in terms of endings. For example 1/3 still cannot understand the catalyst.

Your misrepresenting them being happy with the ending with the fact they are actually "happier" not happy with it.

Modifié par FlamingBoy, 27 août 2013 - 10:58 .

[FlamingBoy]

Eterna5 wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

Just out of curiosity, I know I am reaching but is their another study to concur with their findings.

You know obviously since you take these guys at their word as "knowledgeable" people who can conduct studies.

If you're going to take that 90% BSN poll about the original ending at face value then there is no logical reason for you to not take this one at face value. 

The EC, while still retaining some problems, was largely a sucess. I'm sorry you can't deal with it. 

aren't you just a little ray of sunshine.

If you don't have a study to concur just say you don't.

Edit: your last sentence is not in correlation with the study I think "improvement" is a better word.

The mean for the ratings for the EC was 6. That is above mediocre. 

Yeah I call that an improvement, not a "huge success"

[FlamingBoy]

I mean if all this study was to show me that the ec was an improvement over the original ending then I would have agreed with you and you wouldn't have wasted both of our times.

The study clearly deals with the opinions in comparison to the original ending not with total ending "happiness"

[Eterna]

FlamingBoy wrote...

Well actually it puts alot of what your saying into perspective, for one that its not true. Well actually half truths.

What it actually says is the ""but for the majority it seems fair to summarise: There is appreciation
for theissues that were addressed and disappointment that so many issues
were left unresolved"

Disappointment =/= dislike

As for being in the 90 percent, thats a none issue, You tried to characterize this study as proof of an EC huge success. All I got from it is people are happier than they were.

No I didn't. It was a sucess though, not a huge one, but it was a sucess. Maybe you should read more than just the conclusion of the study. 

Yes the EC was more positively recieved but that does not mean it was positiviely recieved in terms of endings. For example 1/3 still cannot understand the catalyst.

Am I supposed to be shocked that stupid people who cant understand concepts that are spoon fed to them exist? 

Your misrepresenting them being happy with the ending with the fact they are actually "happier" not happy with it.

Never said that either. The only thing I said was the EC is generally favorable and that the 90% stuff is bull****. 

Modifié par Eterna5, 27 août 2013 - 11:04 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

dreamgazer wrote...

General Slotts wrote...

Dreamy's getting fired up! I like it.

It just annoys me to see folks reducing labored, creative output to mere products. Once you start doing that, you're sure to get even shallower pieces of work.  Art vs. Product is far from a black and white dichotomy. 

I'm sorry... I disagree. It is completely possible to reduce labor and creative output as mere products. If it's bad, it's bad. I probably look at it in a lot shallower, or more practical terms than you do. Not knocking you, but this is perspective.

I don't think everything is art. I don't care how hard someone labored or worked or whatever, if it sucks, it sucks.

[FlamingBoy]

I think I will conclude, you keep sidestepping. I mean if the mean is 6 but the dislike of the catalyst is 1/3 then its obviously they are "happier" not content with the ending. Its obvious they are still disappointed (as pointed in the highlighted paragraph). Every thing else is just a spin on what was actually said.
Also on the "huge success"
you said "largely a sucess", I assumed from the insinuation that I was going to be blown away from the "difference" of how much people love the EC. Obviously you twisted the facts to make people appear generally content when the fact is there is nothing saying that they are content only more content than they were.

[Eterna]

FlamingBoy wrote...

I think I will conclude, you keep sidestepping.

I have done no such thing. 

I mean if the mean is 6 but the dislike of the catalyst is 1/3 then its obviously they are "happier" not content with the ending. Its obvious they are still disappointed (as pointed in the highlighted paragraph). Every thing else is just a spin on what was actually said.

If more people are happier it stands to reason that more people are also content, thus disproving the original "90%" claim that I was arguing against in the first place. 

Also on the "huge success"
you said "largely a sucess", I assumed from the insinuation that I was going to be blown away from the "difference" of how much people love the EC.

So it is my fault that you're deluded? 

Obviously you twisted the facts to make people appear generally content when the fact is there is nothing saying that they are content only more content than they were.

I implore you to show me where I twisted facts. I'd like you to quote me to. not paraphrase what I said with your own assumptions thrown in.