339 réponses à ce sujet

[MassivelyEffective0730]

It's eterna5 dude. He's just going to be a jackass.

I haven't read the argument at all. Nor do I really want to.

[Eterna]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

It's eterna5 dude. He's just going to be a jackass.

You smell.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Eterna5 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

It's eterna5 dude. He's just going to be a jackass.

You smell.

Like lavender and peaches, I know.

[KaiserShep]

Lavender and peaches? Everyone knows real men use lilac.

[squaredgonzo]

I could care less if Shepard's alive or not, but the Catalyst ruined everything. Esp with the Geth and Quarian reconciliation. That kid would have made more sense if he dismissed the event and told shepard it was just temporary.

[Tonymac]

zxKittenpuncher wrote...

I could care less if Shepard's alive or not, but the Catalyst ruined everything. Esp with the Geth and Quarian reconciliation. That kid would have made more sense if he dismissed the event and told shepard it was just temporary.

Nothing about the stupid Starbrat makes any sense.  Its the worst writing I have ever seen done on a professional or semi-professional level.

Why would the leader of the Reapers - the supposed combined intelligence of them all be so retarded as to let an organic decide their fate?  Why?  Because we built the robot gods of doom a big duracell  battery with supposedly unquantifiable amaounts of energy?  One that at first can kill the Reapers, but in the next phase of the game is a mere firecracker?

It would not bother me so much how the game ended - if only Mac and Casey could do some decent writing.  I get the feeling they were just done and tired of it all.  They threw out this trash because they just gave up.  Its a Helicopter trick to the fans - while flipping us the bird. 

[SilJeff]

FlamingBoy wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Yes a BSN poll takes into account the millions of people who played ME3, bravo.

Sample method aka sampling

that's like going to the Democratic National convention to take a poll of their opinion of George W Bush, or the GOP National Convention to take a poll of their opinion of President Obama. Hardly a good sampling.

Modifié par SilJeff, 27 août 2013 - 01:10 .

[Redbelle]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Why even bring up Poll results at all? No matter which way they lean, they don't even represent anything that amounts to more than a fraction of a percent of the total amount of people that played ME3.

Not only that. But regardless of what the poll data shows. Using it to justify anything after the fact, in relation to how certain aspects of ME were developed, is justification for or against how development went about is just wrong. Especially when the topic is how to go about developing in the future.

So Liara is the most popular....okay. But now we know this after the fact. Does that mean it's ok for other LI's to be given less LI interaction's? That may not have happened in ME3.... (cough JACOB..... cough TALI'S FACE..... cough.....Thane?). But that should not justify less development for other romances in the future. Should they happen.

Simply put. When developing characters in a character based action/shooter/RPG it does no good to lock those characters away or deny what is ultimately, the final fruitition of those romances. Yet from the poll results it seems the majority can be catered for by picking more development time for Liara.

And that's the wrong way to approach story telling.

Just because one character has immense popularity..... because, I don't know, she get's nekid perhaps?..... doesn't mean that one character should get more resources alloacted to them. That character is already popular. To increase popularity across the board, other character's should be better developed. To give people a reason to like them.

Vega is perhaps the one to hold up in this regard. He does a lot of stuff at the beginning. Then fades to the background where the gamer has no chance to get to know him in game. Maybe his personality and character do grate from what little was seen of him. But we never get the chance to see if there are other qualities to this character. He's simply brought in as a gun man at the start then left to fester from his first impression.

The reduction of dialogue wheel moment's across the board did not help either. Vega and Ash, in my playthroughs, have nothing to say for a vast majority of the game. And that just cannot be right if, instead of looking at character's from the perspective of gamer popularity, your looking at them from the perspective of making these characters work  for our affection's in game.

Modifié par Redbelle, 27 août 2013 - 01:36 .

[Iakus]

Eterna5 wrote...

http://www.mediafire...cccy9p2za55ecz5

Have fun.

I remember this survey.  It was actually kinda funny how interested Biwoare was and yes even tweeted about it.  Then the results were released and suddenly Bioware distanced themselves from it, saying the results were all wrong and irrelevent and didn't line up with their Secret Spreadsheets.

Perhaps it was things like:


Question 35: IT better? A majority of players (53.32%),(as presented in Table 3 below), thought that the Indoctrination Theory (IT) would have been a better explanation for the ending, than the explanation provided by the EC. Almost a third of the responses are recorded for the Absolutely category, while only 22.83% of responses register for the No and Definitely Not categories combined. 

Ouch! 


37: Happy Ending Should have Been an Option

As presented in Table 4 below, almost 40% of the responses are in the Strongly Agree category, with a total agree score of 67.60%. The total disagree score is only 17.24%, with only  7.14% saying they Strongly Disagree.
Table 4. Question 37:Happy ending should have been an option Rating Frequency Percent
1 Strongly Disagree 537   7.14
2 Disagree 759   10.10
3 Neutral 1140   15.17
4 Agree 2136   28.42
5 Strongly Agree 2945   39.18 

Two out of three people thought a happy ending should at least have been an option 


Then there's this little tidbit:

Of course the elephant in the room is the Catalyst, so let's look at how opinions of him have changed with the EC: Nearly 42.5% of respondents felt they could understand the Catalyst's motivations and purpose, less than 1 person in 3 could follow the logic of the Catalyst(29.8%). Slightly more than 1 in 4 felt they were able to influence the catalyst and/or determine the end(27.4% and 28.3% respectively). By any measure these are very poor results. Even with the increased explanation that the EC provides, the Catalyst remains a confusing and perplexing addition to the game for the clear majority of respondents. 

Modifié par iakus, 27 août 2013 - 02:27 .

[FlamingBoy]

SilJeff wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Yes a BSN poll takes into account the millions of people who played ME3, bravo.

Sample method aka sampling

that's like going to the Democratic National convention to take a poll of their opinion of George W Bush, or the GOP National Convention to take a poll of their opinion of President Obama. Hardly a good sampling.

perhaps, but if you can provide a more balanced "sample" that would makes things easier

[FlamingBoy]

iakus wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

http://www.mediafire...cccy9p2za55ecz5

Have fun.

I remember this survey.  It was actually kinda funny how interested Biwoare was and yes even tweeted about it.  Then the results were released and suddenly Bioware distanced themselves from it, saying the results were all wrong and irrelevent and didn't line up with their Secret Spreadsheets.

Perhaps it was things like:


Question 35: IT better? A majority of players (53.32%),(as presented in Table 3 below), thought that the Indoctrination Theory (IT) would have been a better explanation for the ending, than the explanation provided by the EC. Almost a third of the responses are recorded for the Absolutely category, while only 22.83% of responses register for the No and Definitely Not categories combined. 

Ouch! 


37: Happy Ending Should have Been an Option

As presented in Table 4 below, almost 40% of the responses are in the Strongly Agree category, with a total agree score of 67.60%. The total disagree score is only 17.24%, with only  7.14% saying they Strongly Disagree.
Table 4. Question 37:Happy ending should have been an option Rating Frequency Percent 1 Strongly Disagree 537 7.14 2 Disagree 759 10.10 3 Neutral 1140 15.17 4 Agree 2136 28.42 5 Strongly Agree 2945 39.18 

Two out of three people thought a happy ending should at least have been an option 


Then there's this little tidbit:

Of course the elephant in the room is the Catalyst, so let's look at how opinions of him have changed with the EC: Nearly 42.5% of respondents felt they could understand the Catalyst's motivations and purpose, less than 1 person in 3 could follow the logic of the Catalyst(29.8%). Slightly more than 1 in 4 felt they were able to influence the catalyst and/or determine the end(27.4% and 28.3% respectively). By any measure these are very poor results. Even with the increased explanation that the EC provides, the Catalyst remains a confusing and perplexing addition to the game for the clear majority of respondents. 

I know he ignores key parts of the survery which he provided, it is fustrating

[Br3admax]

No it's not like that at all. BSN isn't Democrat 'R Us or Tea&Free, it's a much less skewed population than that. The results would be much more proportional.

[dreamgazer]

Love the range of comments in this article, as is the case with many articles across the web:

http://kotaku.com/59...-3-extended-cut

[Ridwan]

Eterna5 wrote...

M25105 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Because Casper the retarded ghost boy makes so much more sense right? It's not like the other games ended on a bad ass note, right? Oh wait they did. We don't want some lame ass art crap (and I don't classify games as art either, it's a toy, that way too many people here are afraid to admit they enjoy cause of the stigma attached to it, so games gets labelled as art) and it has shown.

Speak for yourself. 

I consider videogames to be an artform, despite being completely comfortable with the fact that I enjoy them as interactive entertainment.  And I would, in fact, prefer "art crap" over most of the alternatives I've read. 

Better, more polished art crap, of course. 

When over 90% of people voting on polls showed that they hated the ending, then I don't speak for myself.

Putting a 100 page lore manual next to a GI-Joe action figure doesn't make it art either, it's still a toy.

Yes a BSN poll takes into account the millions of people who played ME3, bravo.

Conviently ignores all other polls from different websites and magazines I see, bravo right back at you drone.

[CronoDragoon]

iakus wrote...

I remember this survey.  It was actually kinda funny how interested Biwoare was and yes even tweeted about it.  Then the results were released and suddenly Bioware distanced themselves from it, saying the results were all wrong and irrelevent and didn't line up with their Secret Spreadsheets.

When did that happen?

[Iakus]

CronoDragoon wrote...

iakus wrote...

I remember this survey.  It was actually kinda funny how interested Biwoare was and yes even tweeted about it.  Then the results were released and suddenly Bioware distanced themselves from it, saying the results were all wrong and irrelevent and didn't line up with their Secret Spreadsheets.

When did that happen?

Immediately after the results were publiched.  I mean, like within a day.  Bioware was shown the results first (they requested that), so they knew what they would say before they were "officially" released.

[mopotter]

iakus wrote...

Okay, assuming this is genuine, here's a more detailed explanation:

The Crucible doesn't do any of the nonsense things it does in the current endings.  What it does is "level the playing field"  The Reapers' kinetic barriers go down.  They move more sluggishly, they become vulnerable to our weapons.  FO rthe time being, they can be "defeated conventionally"

Victory and defeat become dependant on EMS.  How long this effect lasts depends on how well built the Crucible is.  How much  damage the fleets can inflict depends on the War Assets you can bring to bear.  A well made Crucible and a huge fleet can devastate teh Reapers.  A poorly made one with a small fleet can't take advantage of the opening provided.  And so on.

There would be a myriad of possible outcomes, ranging from a comparatively easy victory to a tragic last stand for the galaxy.  Not just Low Medium, and High EMS wins, but certain combinations which would determine if certain individuals or groups would live or die.  Dozens of possible outcomes based on which Assets you have at your disposal, choices made in the trilogy,  Including decisions made during the attack on Earth.  There would be endings (plural  where Shepard lived (clearly lived), endings where Shepard died,  Endings where Shep is reunited with the Normandy, and those where Shep is the only survivor.  Liara could die.  James could die.  EDI could die.  Joker could die.  Ashley could die.  Garrus could die.  Or they could all live.

Yes.  This would be my ending choices too.  And this is pretty much what I expected from them.  

Including endings where the Geth and Quarian survive; Quarian die and one with Geth dead depending on choices  you made in ME2.

[FlyingSquirrel]

I actually had an idea shortly after the game came out that would keep most of the ending intact, right up until when Shepard is asked to make the final choice. I'd still allow the RGB endings, but also allow the following possibilities:

1) Shepard refuses on the grounds that the Catalyst is wrong about the inevitable organic/synthetic conflict. This option is available only if Shepard negotiated geth/quarian peace and did most of the following:

• Cured the genophage with Wrex in charge and Eve still alive
• Saved the rachni queen in both ME1 and ME3
• Rewrote the heretics
• Recruited Javik
• Saved the colonists on Feros
• Saved the council in ME1
• Prevented at least 2 squadmates from killing someone at the end of their loyalty missions in ME2

If all these conditions are met, the Catalyst respects Shepard's political acumen when it comes to accommodating diversity and reconciliation. It reluctantly agrees that perhaps this cycle has earned the chance to just let things play out, and it gives Shepard the option to attempt a more limited interface with the Reapers. Basically, the Catalyst will deactivate its control of the Reapers and Shepard can simply give them the order to stop attacking and withdraw - but the interface will be deeply traumatic and overwhelming, and Shepard will not survive if his or her mental focus isn't sufficient. At this point, one of two things happens:

• A Shepard with a completely full reputation bar will succeed and survive. The Reapers withdraw to dark space and the war ends. Brief check-ins with all the squadmates and other NPCs regarding their immediate future. Final shot is Shepard peering out into space from the Normandy observation lounge, wondering what's become of the Reapers now.
• A Shepard with a less-than-full reptuation bar will succeed but be absorbed (like in the Control sequence) in the process. The Reapers withdraw to dark space and the war ends, but no one is quite sure what happened or why. Final scene is the Normandy crew reviewing security footage from the Citadel - which abruptly turns to white noise at the point where the Catalyst appeared even though there was no camera malfunction. ("So what happened in those ten minutes? And where's Shepard?")

2) Shepard refuses on the grounds that no one should have as much power as the Catalyst is offering and the side effects are too costly. The Catalyst won't be persuaded by this and will simply end the conversation. Shepard radios Hackett and explains what's going on, and EDI suggests trying to hack the Crucible to sever the connection between the Reapers and the Catalyst and deactivate the Reapers' weaponry, without all the other negative side effects. Shepard is rescued from the Citadel and they have to fight one more battle of some sort, in order to get the necessary technology to the right location for EDI to do this. Success or failure depends on a combination of EMS and an ME2-style setup where you have to assign the right people to the right tasks.

• Success is similar to the above scenario, with the Catalyst and the Reapers basically disappearing and the rest of the galaxy getting to the task of reconstruction.
• Failure, however, means that the Reapers win - Shepard, anyone else in the squad, Hackett, and most of the other NPCs die. However, some combination of choices can allow the Normandy to escape with Liara on board, at which point she escapes to go plant her time capsule somewhere and hides it carefully enough that the final scene is of someone from the next cycle discovering it. If the Normandy is destroyed, Liara launches the capsule into space shortly before the ship explodes, and the final scene is of the capsule having landed intact on a desolate planet as a dust cloud blows across it.

However, the RGB choices would still be there, and if Shepard chooses to activate the Crucible and then picks Control or Synthesis, you get the added benefit of the Reapers helping with reconstruction, which you don't get in any of these scenarios.

Modifié par FlyingSquirrel, 27 août 2013 - 07:17 .

[Eterna]

iakus wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

http://www.mediafire...cccy9p2za55ecz5

Have fun.

I remember this survey.  It was actually kinda funny how interested Biwoare was and yes even tweeted about it.  Then the results were released and suddenly Bioware distanced themselves from it, saying the results were all wrong and irrelevent and didn't line up with their Secret Spreadsheets.

Perhaps it was things like:


Question 35: IT better? A majority of players (53.32%),(as presented in Table 3 below), thought that the Indoctrination Theory (IT) would have been a better explanation for the ending, than the explanation provided by the EC. Almost a third of the responses are recorded for the Absolutely category, while only 22.83% of responses register for the No and Definitely Not categories combined. 

Ouch! 


37: Happy Ending Should have Been an Option

As presented in Table 4 below, almost 40% of the responses are in the Strongly Agree category, with a total agree score of 67.60%. The total disagree score is only 17.24%, with only  7.14% saying they Strongly Disagree.
Table 4. Question 37:Happy ending should have been an option Rating Frequency Percent
1 Strongly Disagree 537   7.14
2 Disagree 759   10.10
3 Neutral 1140   15.17
4 Agree 2136   28.42
5 Strongly Agree 2945   39.18 

Two out of three people thought a happy ending should at least have been an option 


Then there's this little tidbit:

Of course the elephant in the room is the Catalyst, so let's look at how opinions of him have changed with the EC: Nearly 42.5% of respondents felt they could understand the Catalyst's motivations and purpose, less than 1 person in 3 could follow the logic of the Catalyst(29.8%). Slightly more than 1 in 4 felt they were able to influence the catalyst and/or determine the end(27.4% and 28.3% respectively). By any measure these are very poor results. Even with the increased explanation that the EC provides, the Catalyst remains a confusing and perplexing addition to the game for the clear majority of respondents. 

Do you guys even understand what I was arguing against in the first place or are you just going to keep running your mouths with your own assumptions of my position?

Modifié par Eterna5, 27 août 2013 - 07:38 .

[Bionuts]

Would have been good to side with Cerberus and kill TIM to control the Reapers. At least it would have been fun.

[Fixers0]

With Good writing.

[Iakus]

Eterna5 wrote...

Do you guys even understand what I was arguing against in the first place or are you just going to keep running your mouths with your own assumptions of my position?

Where would you like the goalposts placed this time, sir?  

[AlanC9]

Eterna5 wrote...


Do you guys even understand what I was arguing against in the first place or are you just going to keep running your mouths with your own assumptions of my position?

When I find myself being grossly misunderstood I generally go ahead and restate my position. You're going to have to do it in a few posts anyway, so you might as well go ahead and do it now.

Edit: see iakus' post above mine. He's free to claim you're moving goalposts since you didn't say anything specific about why he's wrong. (I don't know if he's right or wrong -- I've skipped a few pages)

Modifié par AlanC9, 27 août 2013 - 07:57 .

[CronoDragoon]

iakus wrote...
Immediately after the results were publiched.  I mean, like within a day.  Bioware was shown the results first (they requested that), so they knew what they would say before they were "officially" released.

Source? I can't just take these claims on faith, especially since one of the things you said is already contradicted by MikeC99 in the EC survey thread in which the document is posted: they approached BW with the EC survey results, but BW declined to review them on account that they were definitively finished with the endings.

Edit: my source: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/14226254

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 27 août 2013 - 08:06 .

[Eterna]

AlanC9 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...


Do you guys even understand what I was arguing against in the first place or are you just going to keep running your mouths with your own assumptions of my position?

When I find myself being grossly misunderstood I generally go ahead and restate my position. You're going to have to do it in a few posts anyway, so you might as well go ahead and do it now.

Edit: see iakus' post above mine. He's free to claim you're moving goalposts since you didn't say anything specific about why he's wrong. (I don't know if he's right or wrong -- I've skipped a few pages)

The only thing I set out the prove was that the EC was mostly positively recieved and thus a sucess. Therefore that 90% poll is even more worthless than it used to be. The study confirms my claim, it accomplished what it set out to do for the most part. 

Where would you like the goalposts placed this time, sir?

I have switched no goal post fool. Actually read my responses in this thread. 

Modifié par Eterna5, 27 août 2013 - 08:16 .