15 réponses à ce sujet

[sunlance]

**ME1 spoiler warning**

So, today I just finished an ME1 playthrough today in preparation for ME2, and as I was deciding whether or not to save the Council, something unexpected happened with my squaddie dialog:

I had taken Ashley and Liara along, and in their dialog before the decision, Ash argued in favor of sparing the Council and Liara recommended letting them die.

Now, this I totally hadn't seen coming, as Ash was usually the one to advocate for the 'Renegade' positions. For example, on Noveria she argued against saving the Rachni queen while Liara advocated sparing her. This was after I'd 'turned Ash paragon' through convo choices.

I can understand having a situation like this pop up if you have two 'Paragon' type squaddies, e.g. Liara and Tali. But this kind of broke my immersion. Has anyone ever had this happen to them?

[KenLyns]

This is one of the things said to have been fixed in ME2, so you won't have party members speaking "out of character" just for the sake of having both paragon and renegade whisperings in your ear.

[Scharfschutzen]

Are you sure that's right?

[DarthCaine]

Yes, it was confirmed

But since you made Ashley Paragon it makes sense that she'd want you to spare the Rachni queen

[JakePT]

You'll notice that every decision you make no matter who you have with you one will act Paragon, one will act Renegade. Kinda stupid, but apparently it's fixed in ME2. You take a jerk with you, he'll be a jerk.

[Stoko981]

I had that exact thing happen to me on my last playthrough, with Liara and Tali in my party. It'd never clicked with me before that they'd act out of character for the sake of giving me the choice. I was all set to save the council, that was my choice, my goal throughout the entire paragon game. But having Tali make the argument for holding the fleet back, I was tempted. She was so rational and logical about it, it really made sense. That almost made me buy it even more.

If anything, it didn't break my immersion, it just very much took me by surprise, because it didn't seem out of character at all yet it was entirely unexpected.

[LordGarm]

JakePT wrote...

You'll notice that every decision you make no matter who you have with you one will act Paragon, one will act Renegade. Kinda stupid, but apparently it's fixed in ME2. You take a jerk with you, he'll be a jerk.

This.

[rambling mode = on]
Despite loving ME, this was one of the (surprisingly many) flaws of the game. Amazing how a game with so many minor flaws can't still be awesome.
[rambling mode = off]

I hope that since ME2 is more about the characters, they stay true to their personalities this time around.

Modifié par LordGarm, 19 janvier 2010 - 02:07 .

[Tombstone5150]

I like how if you have a renegade char. and Liara... her answer to the council question is nuetral... she said"this is bigger than any species in the galaxy" which I took to mean.... dont waste reinforcements on someone negligible... save em for the big fight, then the renegade said"Thats why you have to hold them back untill they can get a shot at Sov." then Liara sez" A decision for the greater good..... I only hope it is not in vain".... I was like wait ..... didnt you just tell me to sacrifice the council too? make up your mind.

[Spitfire80]

I agree this can be annoying, but i kinda liked it.



The way i understand it, it has to do with the order in which they were selected. Don't ask me why, that triggers Paragon vs Renegade dialog though.

[ODST 3]

I preferred Ashley advocating that the Council be spared as I had taught her that all species are not evil. It's part of her character arc.

[PaladinXR]

Tombstone5150 wrote...

I like how if you have a renegade char. and Liara... her answer to the council question is nuetral... she said"this is bigger than any species in the galaxy" which I took to mean.... dont waste reinforcements on someone negligible... save em for the big fight, then the renegade said"Thats why you have to hold them back untill they can get a shot at Sov." then Liara sez" A decision for the greater good..... I only hope it is not in vain".... I was like wait ..... didnt you just tell me to sacrifice the council too? make up your mind.

Bigger than any species = paragon. She's basically saying, "Don't leave the council to rot just because you're a bigot"

The renegade option is to say "Screw the Council", the paragon is to say "Save them, no matter the cost" the neutral is to say, "Don't save them, attack sovereign".

[TWBuck]

Hmm not too sure, sounds interesting tho!

[kaff33nd]

Wether or not you save the council isn't the point - to me the point is "at what cost in lives is the council of 3 really worth?". I mean, a council can be remade, just pick the 3 (or 4) most promising individuals and start again. But how many humans die to protect, what is essentially a token of 3 councillors? Every species in citadel space is at risk of extinction if Sovereign is allowed to call the rest of the Reapers to it. Surely ignoring the council and going straight for Sovereign is a paragon choice?

[PaladinXR]

kaff33nd wrote...

Wether or not you save the council isn't the point - to me the point is "at what cost in lives is the council of 3 really worth?". I mean, a council can be remade, just pick the 3 (or 4) most promising individuals and start again. But how many humans die to protect, what is essentially a token of 3 councillors? Every species in citadel space is at risk of extinction if Sovereign is allowed to call the rest of the Reapers to it. Surely ignoring the council and going straight for Sovereign is a paragon choice?

At the same time, in the galactic scheme of things, it won"t be viewed that way. If we look at Mass Effect 2 and 3, it may be assumed that if you let the council die, the other species will, to some extent, view that as an affront. It doesnt make much sense to save the council unless you liked them, but in the purely black and white PARAGON-RENEGADE continuum, saving the council is paragon (its selfless, it also takes into account the potential galactic desires and ramifications), letting the council die is ambivalent, and saying screw the council is renegade. Any choice which takes human lives or human interests into account over alien interests or lives is a Renegade choice, at least in Mass Effect 1.

Modifié par PaladinXR, 21 janvier 2010 - 07:42 .

[kaff33nd]

The whole Renegade/Paragon thing always gets to me. In RL good people do bad things and bad people do good things. What gets to me the most is when being polite gives 'good' points and being rude gives 'bad' points. At the end of the day, even a full Renegade character ends the game by saving the galaxy. And to Batarians, Mercs etc.. even a full Paragon is an ****.

[SnipeyMcGee]

It's good cop, bad cop. If you've seen 'The Shield', Renegade is essentially the character Vic from that show. You have a round about, mean, maybe not even legal way of getting things done. Your own brand of violent justice- and you'd like to make a profit while you're at it. A PARAGON is essentially that, a paragon of all things good. Making the most paladian of decisions, rescuing the heads of elected (albeit alien) government is not something to be sneered at.