260 réponses à ce sujet

[MegaSovereign]

Reorte wrote...

Bionuts wrote...

If they're at the point of having a memorial, and still haven't found Shepard, then she's probably dead.

If they haven't found her then she's missing in action and wouldn't be getting put up on the memorial wall. The memorial scene is supposed to imply survival but only works when you step out of the game and consider why it's there. It fails to achieve anything if you're trying to keep up the in-game illusion and think about it at the same time.

Not really...I don't get how Shepard's LI/best friend would smile at the thought of him dying.

I immediately understood that the memorial scene was leading up to the breath scene when I first played through the EC.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 28 août 2013 - 08:01 .

[mupp3tz]

Robosexual wrote...

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

It was a bit weird that they were certain about Anderson's fate but not Shepard's. Hmm.. I don't recall Shepard ever telling Hackett about what happened, either. I guess that was just Bioware's way of giving a more optimistic ending.

Does the same thing happen if you chose Synthesis or Control?

Shepard disintegrates in Synthesis and Control.

Well, to rephrase: you don't get the memorial scene at all? Or you do get it, but they actually do put your name up? In either case, the smile still doesn't make sense.

Modifié par M U P P 3 T Z, 28 août 2013 - 08:02 .

[ruggly]

CronoDragoon wrote...

There's been less of it lately (there's been less interesting discussion in general), but upon release and the following months I found quite a lot of interesting criticisms of the ending. Here's one of my favorites that had really interesting discussion for an impressive number of pages: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10022779/1

I could have lived with an ending like that.

[crimzontearz]

I should thank Mac Walters (even tho I really REALLY am considering if it is at all worth buying anything he is at the head of in the future and believe he should not be vested with any major creative input anymore) for giving me the chance to discover the witcher series through this faux pas he considers and awesomely incredible artistic ending....I still can't believe their first response was "well maybe they did not understand it...we could not possible have just screwed up"

[Clayless]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

Shepard disintegrates in Synthesis and Control.

Well, to rephrase: you don't get the memorial scene at all? Or you do get it, but they actually do put your name up? In either case, the smile still doesn't make sense.

They get a memorial scene.

[dorktainian]

maybe answers are incoming....

Mass Effect 3
Only 2 weeks away until Bioware will make an announcement at Montreal Comiccon about their new ME game and The Gamer Nerdz will be there. Don't forget to LIKE their FB Page https://www.facebook.com/thegamernerdz

[AlanC9]

dorktainian wrote...

maybe answers are incoming....

How touching.

[AlanC9]

Robosexual wrote...

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...
Well, to rephrase: you don't get the memorial scene at all? Or you do get it, but they actually do put your name up? In either case, the smile still doesn't make sense.

They get a memorial scene.

Right. The plaque goes up, no smiles.

[KaiserShep]

Reorte wrote...

Bionuts wrote...

If they're at the point of having a memorial, and still haven't found Shepard, then she's probably dead.

If they haven't found her then she's missing in action and wouldn't be getting put up on the memorial wall. The memorial scene is supposed to imply survival but only works when you step out of the game and consider why it's there. It fails to achieve anything if you're trying to keep up the in-game illusion and think about it at the same time.

The problem is that the Extended Cut had to work around the basic framework of the original ending. The Normandy should not have crashed on that planet in the new ending at all. Joker should have rendezvoused with Hackett's fleet, per his order. The other surviving ships seen coasting past the damaged relay were perfectly spaceworthy, so the Normandy should've been with them. Shepard's survival scene should have come before the Citadel is seen being rebuilt, because obviously, if Shepard is alive, he/she is found when people go up there to find Shepard and salvage the station. The memorial scene should have had Shepard there if he/she survives to put Anderson's name up, or otherwise just have the LI or other members of the crew put Shepard's name under Anderson's on the wall.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 28 août 2013 - 11:07 .

[AlanC9]

The big problem with the breath clip was the original EMS requirement. There was so much noise about not being able to get the clip at all that nobody talked much about the breath clip not making Shep alive enough, or however you like to describe it. (There were a few cranks making that point -- Getorex comes to mind -- but not many). I imagine without the EMS requirement Bio would have heard poor iakus misinterpreting the clip and done something for him.

Modifié par AlanC9, 28 août 2013 - 11:58 .

[MegaSovereign]

AlanC9 wrote...

The big problem with the breath clip was the original EMS requirement. There was so much noise about not being able to get the clip at all that nobody talked much about the breath clip not making Shep alive enough, or however you like to describe it. (There were a few cranks making that point -- Getorex comes to mind -- but not many). I imagine without the EMS requirement Bio would have heard poor iakus misinterpreting the clip and done something for him.

I think it's more than just that....Expanding on the breath scene could possibly destroy certain interpretations of the game (like IT for example).

I don't think it's out of laziness or lack of resources considering they expanded upon every other scene in the ending.

[crimzontearz]

....is it really that hard of understand the lack of expansion on the breath scene is about ego?

[MegaSovereign]

crimzontearz wrote...

....is it really that hard of understand the lack of expansion on the breath scene is about ego?

What do you mean exactly?

[mupp3tz]

Agree with @MegaSovereign. I think they did it precisely that way so that the people who wanted to see their Shepard alive would be somewhat pleased, while still leaving room for interpretation. It would have been very easy for them to expand on it if they wanted to.

[dreamgazer]

crimzontearz wrote...

....is it really that hard of understand the lack of expansion on the breath scene is about ego?

No, it's not hard to understand how one might come to that conclusion.

Doesn't make it correct, though.

[Mcfly616]

MegaSovereign wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

The big problem with the breath clip was the original EMS requirement. There was so much noise about not being able to get the clip at all that nobody talked much about the breath clip not making Shep alive enough, or however you like to describe it. (There were a few cranks making that point -- Getorex comes to mind -- but not many). I imagine without the EMS requirement Bio would have heard poor iakus misinterpreting the clip and done something for him.

I think it's more than just that....Expanding on the breath scene could possibly destroy certain interpretations of the game (like IT for example).

I believe MegaSovereign and I are of the same opinion. Several weeks prior to the release of the Extended Cut, Chris Priestly or Mike Gamble (its definitely one or the other, but can't be sure which) went onto the RetakeME page and literally did a poll asking: "do you believe in IT" (yes or no).

The overwhelming majority said "Yes. I believe in IT" (nearly 80% of thousands upon thousands of people)

Now....its my theory or belief I should say, that this question was deliberately asked because the Dev team had an "extended" breath scene done and ready to be tacked onto the ending with the release of the EC. Bioware probably didn't want to torch a large amount of fans interpretation of the ending.

I also believe that the majority of that 80% that voted "Yes" for IT, were only doing so because they actually believed that Bioware might have Shepard wake up and continue the fight to an entirely new ending. Unfortunately it was a case of "be careful what you wish for", because Bioware only wanted to get a feel on the IT population and didn't want to step on their toes, so they left the Extended Breathe Scene where Shepard gets out of the rubble (a la ME1) and looks over the ruins of the Citadel (victorious), was all left on the cutting room floor.


I have no proof for this. It's just my wholeheartedly belief. However, all one must do is ask themselves "why did Priestly or Gamble ask that specific question to a group they knew were unhappy with the endings, just a few weeks before the EC came out?" And you can easily extrapolate and reach the very same conclusion as my own.

[crimzontearz]

MegaSovereign wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

....is it really that hard of understand the lack of expansion on the breath scene is about ego?

What do you mean exactly?

If Shepard was given a full and CLEAR reunion scene as opposed to the middle finger of speculation garnished with an insanely poor delivery even with the kickback of the Geth and EDI being obliterated ( or only EDI) an even LARGER majority would have picked destroy (as it stands 60%+ picked destroy already according to the telemetry) thus reducing the artsy endings which were thought to be so awesomely uplifting to...well...afterthoughts.

sure I may be unkind right now ....more of it might be desire to keep things even.....but this begs the question of.....WHY?

[crimzontearz]

Mcfly616 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

The big problem with the breath clip was the original EMS requirement. There was so much noise about not being able to get the clip at all that nobody talked much about the breath clip not making Shep alive enough, or however you like to describe it. (There were a few cranks making that point -- Getorex comes to mind -- but not many). I imagine without the EMS requirement Bio would have heard poor iakus misinterpreting the clip and done something for him.

I think it's more than just that....Expanding on the breath scene could possibly destroy certain interpretations of the game (like IT for example).

I believe MegaSovereign and I are of the same opinion. Several weeks prior to the release of the Extended Cut, Chris Priestly or Mike Gamble (its definitely one or the other, but can't be sure which) went onto the RetakeME page and literally did a poll asking: "do you believe in IT" (yes or no).

The overwhelming majority said "Yes. I believe in IT" (nearly 80% of thousands upon thousands of people)

Now....its my theory or belief I should say, that this question was deliberately asked because the Dev team had an "extended" breath scene done and ready to be tacked onto the ending with the release of the EC. Bioware probably didn't want to torch a large amount of fans interpretation of the ending.

I also believe that the majority of that 80% that voted "Yes" for IT, were only doing so because they actually believed that Bioware might have Shepard wake up and continue the fight to an entirely new ending. Unfortunately it was a case of "be careful what you wish for", because Bioware only wanted to get a feel on the IT population and didn't want to step on their toes, so they left the Extended Breathe Scene where Shepard gets out of the rubble (a la ME1) and looks over the ruins of the Citadel (victorious), was all left on the cutting room floor.


I have no proof for this. It's just my wholeheartedly belief. However, all one must do is ask themselves "why did Priestly or Gamble ask that specific question to a group they knew were unhappy with the endings, just a few weeks before the EC came out?" And you can easily extrapolate and reach the very same conclusion as my own.

sad if true as the project lead clearly stated the breath scene meant he lives (prior to EC)


even more sad now that the discussion if IT is FORBIDDEN on the forums

[MegaSovereign]

crimzontearz wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

....is it really that hard of understand the lack of expansion on the breath scene is about ego?

What do you mean exactly?

If Shepard was given a full and CLEAR reunion scene as opposed to the middle finger of speculation garnished with an insanely poor delivery even with the kickback of the Geth and EDI being obliterated ( or only EDI) an even LARGER majority would have picked destroy (as it stands 60%+ picked destroy already according to the telemetry) thus reducing the artsy endings which were thought to be so awesomely uplifting to...well...afterthoughts.

sure I may be unkind right now ....more of it might be desire to keep things even.....but this begs the question of.....WHY?

I'm pretty sure it's much higher than 60%....The existence of the breath scene in general helped make it a very popular choice. If Bioware was really concerned about the popularity of the other endings (which you are unfairly speculating as "Bioware's favorite endings" even though they seem to be championing the Destroy ending in evey trailer/ME3 Retrospective videos) they wouldn't have added the breath scene.

A reunion scene wouldn't have made much of a difference in terms of which ending the majority of people would have chosen.

[Mcfly616]

crimzontearz wrote...

sad if true as the project lead clearly stated the breath scene meant he lives (prior to EC)

.....and? It still means the same thing now. Just because the Dev team may have thought it might be a nice touch to let the players see "their" Shepard stand up out of the rubble in an extension of the breathe scene, but ultimately chose not to because they didn't want to destroy the perspective of some of their fanbase, doesn't change the fact that he lives.

[crimzontearz]

Mcfly616 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

sad if true as the project lead clearly stated the breath scene meant he lives (prior to EC)

.....and? It still means the same thing now. Just because the Dev team may have thought it might be a nice touch to let the players see "their" Shepard stand up out of the rubble in an extension of the breathe scene, but ultimately chose not to because they didn't want to destroy the perspective of some of their fanbase, doesn't change the fact that he lives.

but it implies it could have done much MUCH more elegantly

I am sorry I am NOT going to excuse that Mcfly, we spoke of this before.

[crimzontearz]

MegaSovereign wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

....is it really that hard of understand the lack of expansion on the breath scene is about ego?

What do you mean exactly?

If Shepard was given a full and CLEAR reunion scene as opposed to the middle finger of speculation garnished with an insanely poor delivery even with the kickback of the Geth and EDI being obliterated ( or only EDI) an even LARGER majority would have picked destroy (as it stands 60%+ picked destroy already according to the telemetry) thus reducing the artsy endings which were thought to be so awesomely uplifting to...well...afterthoughts.

sure I may be unkind right now ....more of it might be desire to keep things even.....but this begs the question of.....WHY?

I'm pretty sure it's much higher than 60%....The existence of the breath scene in general helped make it a very popular choice. If Bioware was really concerned about the popularity of the other endings (which you are unfairly speculating as "Bioware's favorite endings" even though they seem to be championing the Destroy ending in evey trailer/ME3 Retrospective videos) they wouldn't have added the breath scene.

A reunion scene wouldn't have made much of a difference in terms of which ending the majority of people would have chosen.

they were referred to as the best endings in the original draft remember?

[Iakus]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

Agree with @MegaSovereign. I think they did it precisely that way so that the people who wanted to see their Shepard alive would be somewhat pleased, while still leaving room for interpretation. It would have been very easy for them to expand on it if they wanted to.

Then where are the Control and Synthesis endings that imply Shepard lived?

Why does DestroyPlus have to share in "speculations' if every other ending is definitively "Shepard's dead" ?

[crimzontearz]

iakus wrote...

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

Agree with @MegaSovereign. I think they did it precisely that way so that the people who wanted to see their Shepard alive would be somewhat pleased, while still leaving room for interpretation. It would have been very easy for them to expand on it if they wanted to.

Then where are the Control and Synthesis endings that imply Shepard lived?

Why does DestroyPlus have to share in "speculations' if every other ending is definitively "Shepard's dead" ?

because Bioware lacked elegance in this execution

[Mcfly616]

crimzontearz wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

sad if true as the project lead clearly stated the breath scene meant he lives (prior to EC)

.....and? It still means the same thing now. Just because the Dev team may have thought it might be a nice touch to let the players see "their" Shepard stand up out of the rubble in an extension of the breathe scene, but ultimately chose not to because they didn't want to destroy the perspective of some of their fanbase, doesn't change the fact that he lives.

but it implies it could have done much MUCH more elegantly

I am sorry I am NOT going to excuse that Mcfly, we spoke of this before.

no I don't believe we have. I'm sure we've discussed your over-emotional posts regarding the subject months after its been beaten to death. But I'm pretty sure you've never stated how the breathe scene could have been done more "elegantly" without completely destroying a good portion of the fanbases interpretations.