1868 réponses à ce sujet

[Fexelea]

Well, I for one will thank Abriael for standing his ground and making the Bioware people aware of how a simple planning oversight can get out of control and turn a commited customer into very vocal "opposition". This is necessary for any company, and I am happy that it happened with something minor like a dlc release date. Imagine if this had been Awakening! (For your mental sanity, you probably should not)

They are tightening QA, learning that planing and implementation can go wrong when juggling multiple platforms with such a huge project, and revising their communications strategy: I see all +s.

And none of this would have been SO obvious if people had been all that understanding all along.

[Abriael_CG]

Feraele wrote...
Abby...you just said the word extreme...in reference to another person on this board...don't you find that...hmm whats the word for it....ahh ..odd? ^^

Umh it depends on your idea of extreme. If I were to apply the word "extreme" to myself, i'd be here shouting profanities, calling Bioware scammers and all kind of nasty names. While I have not been very forgiving or lenient towards them, and while you can definitely define me persistant, i wouldn't say I'm extreme.

On the other hand, accusing someone of having who knows what mysterious agenda to "disgrace" bioware... yeah, that looks a tad extreme to me.

[MerinTB]

NYHoustonman wrote...

MerinTB wrote...
Now you just look silly.

One post out of how many? I didn't look back because I knew I didn't see anything significant; I didn't think you'd point out a generic post like that. Whatever.

By the post that you quoted?  Two.  Including the post you quoted.
To use your own logic, what did you post before criticizing me? One.

What was my previous post? Thanking the OP.
What was your one post?  Criticizing the OP.

As much as I disagree with your first post, it is as valid to the thread as my first post.  They both were completely on topic, though most of mine directly address the OP - but still, I'll say they were equally on topic.
Praising or criticizing an OP?  They may be generic, but  they are equally USEFUL to the thread.

My point was that, instead of arguing on the point being made by another member, you instead decided to attack his credibility. This, to me, was ironic.

I wasn't trying to dismiss He-Who-Shan't-Be-Named's point, he has every right to his opinion.  I wasn't arguing with his point.  I wasn't trying to tear him down and say he was wrong to have his point of view.
I was calling out his ad hominem attacks - his name-calling, his use of terms like "fanboy" that are meant to belittle and be dismissive of others.
If calling out his use of name-calling is attacking his credibility to you, you have some weird understanding of "attacking credibility."  I think most would agree that to attack someone's credibility is to attempt to undermine anyone listening to their argument by dismissing the person.  I wasn't doing that - I was dismissing a logical fallacy he was using, not attempting to dismiss his argument.

Finally - and here my pedantic streak hits high gear - you've used irony and ironic several times in this thread.  But you use it about as accurately as Alanis Morissette.  Irony is when the literal and actualy meaning of words or events are opposite.  Had I accused someone of name-calling in the same post where I called them a derogatory name, that wouldn't be irony - it would be hypocrisy.

Ironic is the title of an Alanis Morissette song.
Really.  Read that again.  Get it?

I know I used this gimmick elsewhere, but it never gets old - so putting Potter aside for a moment -

Quote of the Moment - "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
" - Inigo Montoya

[Graciemae]

So anyhow, anyone know when the PC version is due?


:innocent::innocent::innocent::innocent:

[Abriael_CG]

Graciemae wrote...

So anyhow, anyone know when the PC version is due?


:innocent::innocent::innocent::innocent:

the fifth of never.

[Graciemae]

I don't even know what a fanboy is, I had assumed he was referring to his boyfriend

[Abriael_CG]

Feraele wrote...
I am still trying to figure out the difference between fanboyism ..as it keeps being applied to me (I'm female by the way) and then there's HIMSELF..that indicates that even though he has all this pent up..rage? anger? bitterness? disdain?....that he too is a fanboy..

I guess I'm more of a fan than a fanboy. Even if I'm very, very, very fond of dragon age (and of most of Bioware games, besides Jade Empire I guess, which I like, but not really qas much as the others), I still retain the sense of criticism to call Bioware on something that I i feel not right.

Fanboys feel the need to "defend" the entity they're fans of against everyone and everything, again, and again, and again. Some of them even relying of namecalling and overly aggressive stances, given that their arguments are normally rather weak.

I don't remember calling you a fangirl though, given that you aren't as rabid as some examples we saw on this thread.

Feraele wrote...

I don't think  idiots run this company,
I really do think they actually know what they are doing, how to
express themselves and how to put out any fires that might occur.

Even intelligent and competent people can make mistakes. Dealing  with customers is not an easy or simple task. Making mistake in that field doesn't necessarily mean being "idiots".
As a matter of fact, I don't think that Bioware is run by idiots at all. I think they're making a mistake in handling this matter, but this doesn't mean in consider them idiots.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 19 janvier 2010 - 06:12 .

[Graciemae]

So, Abriael....what would you call someone who is the opposite of your definition of a fanboy? a person who 'attacks' the entity they are a fan of over and over and over again?

[igniss]

thanks for feedback

[Fexelea]

Feraele wrote...

Fexelea wrote...

Well, I for one will thank Abriael for standing his ground and making the Bioware people aware of how a simple planning oversight can get out of control and turn a commited customer into very vocal "opposition". This is necessary for any company, and I am happy that it happened with something minor like a dlc release date. Imagine if this had been Awakening! (For your mental sanity, you probably should not)
They are tightening QA, learning that planing and implementation can go wrong when juggling multiple platforms with such a huge project, and revising their communications strategy: I see all +s.
And none of this would have been SO obvious if people had been all that understanding all along.

You know..I am positive..that Bioware was well aware of the situation before anyone took it upon themselves to indicate where and when Bioware went wrong or might have gone wrong.

I don't think  idiots run this company, I really do think they actually know what they are doing, how to express themselves and how to put out any fires that might occur.

Give them some slack and some credit.

I do not think that idiots run Bioware either. And the giving slack/credit is irrelevant.
From the Bioware post itself we can see that they have realized the response was not good enough, that damage control mechanisms that should be in place are not. Something has to trigger  posting such realization almost 5 days after the forum went balooney over the dlc. That doesn't make them idiots, it makes them as any growing business. Consumers who will criticize you with a passion to force you to do better, instead of turning away and going to the competition, are an asset.
There are many similar instances of this, but a pretty obvious one can be the Sony PS3 blog. If anyone follows it, there are so many people ready to shout, curse and blame the company for everything up to the Big Bang, yet the staff at Sony are adamant that if those people were not there, they would have gone out of business.
As a dear friend of mine says:  Somewhere between irrational expectations and overwork, lies brilliance.

Modifié par Fexelea, 19 janvier 2010 - 06:19 .

[Abriael_CG]

Graciemae wrote...

So, Abriael....what would you call someone who is the opposite of your definition of a fanboy? a person who 'attacks' the entity they are a fan of over and over and over again?

It depends. Someone that attacks the "entity" over and over again, no matter on what matter and occasion would be an hater.

Someone like me that repeatedly criticizes such entity only on a single instance on something that ge feels wrong? A very persistant disappointed fan, I'd say. 

I'm certanly no hater, since i spare no praise for Bioware where I think it's due, and that means the 90% of the times.

[Graciemae]

I think it would be a fair description to say 'a dog with a bone'

[AlaskanHusky]

MerinTB wrote...

Silensfurtim wrote...

*sigh* im going back to bed. hopefully the bioware asskissers will lessen in the first few pages of this thread in a couple of hours.

ok guys ill see you later for another round of... whatever usually happens when theres a bad news.

Ad hominem, there you are, I was looking for you!
:innocent:

---

Victor, thanks for the update!  Good to know you guys are hard at work on the problem and I hope you get the outpouring of support you all deserver.
At least enough to drown out the people who are going to complain even if you gave them chocolate-covered diamonds.

Ad Hominem is the rugby and hockey players favourite attack!

[NYHoustonman]

MerinTB wrote...
stuff

My definition of ad hominem may be very loose (I'm just an engineer), but it seemed to me that you decided to ignore the other person's point (that this 'update' didn't really update anything) because of his use of the word 'fanboyness' at the end of his post. Or, at the very least, you chose not to explain why he was wrong.

"irony: 5. an outcome of events contrary to what was, or might have been, expected."

I expected you, then, to make a point against this person's argument, based on your cries of 'ad hominem'; the *ahem* outcome of events was contrary to what I was expecting . Granted, your grasp of the English language and arguments in general seems to be beyond my own (and I'm needlessly dragging this whole thing out... If nothing else it's a nice diversion), but this makes sense, no? 

At least, this was my line of reasoning, and while I suppose if you never intended to argue anything this is all moot, I think I'm being somewhat logical .

Modifié par NYHoustonman, 19 janvier 2010 - 06:23 .

[Fexelea]

Companies are not allowed to behave like individuals, so shutting off is really not a wise business choice, just as it would not be wise to buy and deploy a data mining software for your corporation globally because the salesman was "nice". and

M&PR wise, as Abriael is prob aware since he works on the field, it is often the case that nagging rather than constructive criticism is what gets things changed in the corporate world. It is a simple matter of frequency and impact. Well constructed, polite arguments are often just too easy to dismiss, whilst wild accusations spread around the internet can really harm your reputation.

[A_Grey_Warden]

Good luck Bioware. Thank you for the update.
Can't wait for new DA contents.

Modifié par A_Grey_Warden, 19 janvier 2010 - 06:25 .

[Sarkus]

While people are overreacting to this unfortunate series of events, I suspect most of us are really just frustrated by seeing Bioware engage in what at this point is looking like a comedy of errors. We care because we care about the future of Dragon Age. We care because we see people laughing at this on other websites. We care because most of us think the folks at Bioware are good people.



Which is not to say that Bioware has handled this perfectly. It does boggle the mind to think that weeks later we are still hearing about what they are going to do to fix the things that are causing the problems. It also boggles the mind that RtO was even released last week, unintentional as that may have been. It all points to multiple failures, even if they were not intentional.



All said, however, I'm content to wait. RtO will fit into my current campaign at an appropriate point either way or it will fit into a future play through.

[Graciemae]

post deleted by me

Modifié par Graciemae, 19 janvier 2010 - 06:27 .

[A_Grey_Warden]

Graciemae wrote...

post deleted by me

What about it?!