1868 réponses à ce sujet

[Bhatair]

Thanks for the update, looking forward to playing RtO when it's ready.

[DKnightPortela]

Victor Wachter wrote...

1) Let's stop the back and forth here. It is dragging the thread into a place that it doesn't need to go.

2) Abriael, it's clear from your posting that you won't be happy until we put forth a confirmed release date for RtO. Well, we won't be happy until we have one either. of course, we have dates we would like to hit and, frankly, we would like to wrap this one up so we can move on to the next set of updates ourselves. But the fact is, the update is done when it's done.

Setting previous dates (holiday season, Jan. 5, etc.) was a mistake, since we didn't hit any of them. We were optimistic enough to set those dates, but things did not go as planned. Now, we are dropping back a bit and trying to realign expectations so we don't get a community all up in anticipation again.

But it's not fair to say that the note contained no information. First, you know that new code is in testing. We're not just looking into the issue or working on the fix. We've begun the testing process, which is the first phase of getting it released.

Second, we wanted to make it clear that there were lessons learned from the release. We're adjusting testing methodologies to better find these types of issues in future updates. This will be a benefit for all of our releases in the future.

Finally, we really are trying to improve communication and information flow around here. Notes like these are an indication of that. I have some meetings this week, where we'll work further toward getting updates on the questions floating about the forum, so we can help you feel better informed.

All i can say is wonderfull from your part, this is what makes a gaming company have a bright future when they take the time to make their products better and their methodolagy better. I for once am in total support of Bioware decision, better to get the new products right and then release them then get out another faulty product. I would also give you a high give for your work and hope you pass it on to the testing team and nevermind the naysayers, theres an old saying in my country, he who waits gets better things, this i hope is one of these cases.

[DBHolm]

Some of us are quite appreciative of the update. Thank you.

[Rommel49]

MerinTB wrote...

NYHoustonman wrote...
I expected you, then, to make a point against this person's argument, based on your cries of 'ad hominem'; the *ahem* outcome of events was contrary to what I was expecting . Granted, your grasp of the English language and arguments in general seems to be beyond my own (and I'm needlessly dragging this whole thing out... If nothing else it's a nice diversion), but this makes sense, no? 

At least, this was my line of reasoning, and while I suppose if you never intended to argue anything this is all moot, I think I'm being somewhat logical .

For the most part you are being logical.  You assumed that since I was being critical of this person that I was being critical of his argument.

Fair enough.

I do disagree with his the passion of his critique of Bioware over the whole RTO DLC thing, but I never once told him he couldn't argue his point.

I just wish people could do it without calling each other pointless names.

From your understanding of what you were saying, yes, you were being logical.

No harm, no foul.

Again, the pedantry arises, you probably want to use the word hypocrit and hypocrisy more than irony in the future.


We'll all be friends again when RTO comes out for real.
Well, most of us.

You have to watch out for that David Gaider guy, and his "ideas.":?

It's worth pointing out that your use of "ad hominem" wasn't actually correct. Translated it simply means "against the man" (that's why the entire fallacy is known as argumentum ad hominem). The fallacy does not apply to every single personal attack, insult, criticism, etc. against a person. It's essentially a form of red herring; when such an attack is both irrelevant and actually used as evidence against a position. Ironically, to say that somebody shouldn't be mean or insult someone and that it somehow diminishes a point being made falls under a logical fallacy all its own; "Style over substance".

[The Angry One]

TGore001 wrote...

I think they are sitting on the other versions PC/PS3 to make sure their is no simaler errors. Other wise you would be crying.."360 came out with out this bug why did we get screwed." or some such like that.

All reports say the content itself is fine. The error is unique to the 360 title update which has absolutely nothing to do with the PC or PS3 versions.
Try to think before you mindlessly try to defend the indefensible.

The only logical explanation for what's happening is that BioWare seeks to appease Microsoft, and if BioWare cares more about Microsoft than us, then I don't care about BioWare and have serious doubts about buying ME2 or Awakening.

Modifié par The Angry One, 19 janvier 2010 - 01:39 .

[DeadJediJamie]

The Angry One wrote...

TGore001 wrote...

I think they are sitting on the other versions PC/PS3 to make sure their is no simaler errors. Other wise you would be crying.."360 came out with out this bug why did we get screwed." or some such like that.

All reports say the content itself is fine. The error is unique to the 360 title update which has absolutely nothing to do with the PC or PS3 versions.
Try to think before you mindlessly try to defend the indefensible.

The only logical explanation for what's happening is that BioWare seeks to appease Microsoft, and if BioWare cares more about Microsoft than us, then I don't care about BioWare and have serious doubts about buying ME2 or Awakening.

I concur, there is nothing to suggest that there is anything wrong with either of the other two versions. The fact of the matter is, the leaked version has no reported problems with achievements or the content itself. While not condoning the piracy aspect, this should at least affirm to Bioware that there is nothing wrong with it. Instead they sit on it, claiming to fix something that has not been confirmed to have anything wrong with it.

Therefore, one can only conclude that they want a simultaneous release to appease MS, and releasing the other two first while the xbox version is fixed is simply unacceptable.

The way I see it is, most people who own the xbox version had a few hours to download the content and for the most part have been able to play it. In fact, it can be played as long as the patch isn't applied. That being the case, the time for simultaneous releases has passed I say.

[Goth Skunk]

Good morning!



I'm amazed to see this thread has continued long after I went to bed. Evidently, I underestimated the stubbornness of certain individuals.



Seeing as how there is still criticism being flung around, allow me to bring up a statement: Anyone that thinks Abriael's criticism and tongue-wagging made anyone at BioWare bow their head in shame is sadly mistaken. I heavily suspect the only reason why we were given our latest tidbit of information was to shut him and me up. His refusal to see another person's point of view objectively was making this forum a difficult place to be in, though for a few folks I can imagine it was quite entertaining.



Abriael no doubt feels proud of his so-called accomplishment, and may even think himself as some kind of vanguard for change. He's not. Fact of the matter is, BioWare screwed up. They know they screwed up. They now know how they screwed up, and they know what needs to be done in the future.



They knew all this well before Abriael even said a word. To think they didn't would be extremely naïve.



There's criticism, and then there's obnoxious self-entitlement wearing the disguise of criticism. Particularly, complaining about a lack of communication and information being passed onto the consumer RIGHT AFTER a communication is sent out is actually rather crass and rude.



Everyone breathe a collective sigh, have some patience. It's coming.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Goth Skunk wrote...

Good morning!

I'm amazed to see this thread has continued long after I went to bed. Evidently, I underestimated the stubbornness of certain individuals.

Seeing as how there is still criticism being flung around, allow me to bring up a statement: Anyone that thinks Abriael's criticism and tongue-wagging made anyone at BioWare bow their head in shame is sadly mistaken. I heavily suspect the only reason why we were given our latest tidbit of information was to shut him and me up. His refusal to see another person's point of view objectively was making this forum a difficult place to be in, though for a few folks I can imagine it was quite entertaining.

Abriael no doubt feels proud of his so-called accomplishment, and may even think himself as some kind of vanguard for change. He's not. Fact of the matter is, BioWare screwed up. They know they screwed up. They now know how they screwed up, and they know what needs to be done in the future.

They knew all this well before Abriael even said a word. To think they didn't would be extremely naïve.

There's criticism, and then there's obnoxious self-entitlement wearing the disguise of criticism. Particularly, complaining about a lack of communication and information being passed onto the consumer RIGHT AFTER a communication is sent out is actually rather crass and rude.

Everyone breathe a collective sigh, have some patience. It's coming.

Regardless if Abriael's persistance had any effect at all on generating a response we know as much about the status of the PC sku now, as we did 4 days ago. Having bought points myself after that statement on the 13th that the PC sku would be available later that day, I too expected better support since they already have my money for a product they have yet to deliver. If there are issues across all platforms with the DLC itself and its not solely the fault of the 360 title update, how hard is it to say so rather than being vague or in the case of the PC version not mentioning it at all? I honestly don't see why thats so much to ask for considering the amount of deadlines missed thus far and the amount of scrambling and misinformation thats been provided.

While its been interesting to watch you throw personal insult after personal insult at Abriael and others, while patting yourself on the back for doing so on a crusade of silencing anyone who expected a quicker response and to be kept in the loop. To me you've done nothing but anger people more since you aparently can't raise above name calling and insulting people to try and get your point across. The fanboy tag may have been thrown around abit, I'm guilty of it myself, but to call people monkeys among other things is a bit over the line.

In the very least it appears Bioware is aware that the way this has been handled was not optimal and perhaps can put some stop gaps in place to prevent it from happening again with future DLC for DA:O, ME2 and support for SW:TOR.

[King Jeremy 77]

Thanks for the info!

[DreGregoire]

HMPH, Bioware is making strives to improve both the product they produce and the service they provide on this website! Am I yelling, oh yeah, sorry. I'm a little upset at people who are given all the information who in turn continue to miss the information being given to them. I posted to bioware about incomplete posts in the past and they have been complying. It is very clear in this post that all platforms are being tested to ensure the problems is solved, whether or not the other platforms have or had a similiar problem is insignificant. Nothing will be released until Bioware is satisfied with the results of their new testing procedures showing that the product is good for release on all platforms. Thank you for that, Bioware. So please everybody try to be patient and considerate of Bioware and the rest of the community.

L2A (love to all)

[Charliff01]

Re-read his postings and then come back and tell how he treats other posters. It goes both ways Sarah

[The Angry One]

Are we supposed to disregard the fact that RtO on the 360 worked fine until they pulled it, and so are the versions floating around the net for the PC? Why? Because BioWare deigns to communicate with us from on high?



Guess what genius: If the facts contradicts what BioWare says, then BioWare are lying at worst, or being stupid at best.

Either one doesn't paint a pretty picture.

[Scoon millar]

thx for the info i will be getting rto when its released but if that isnt before i get my copy of Me 2 then it will not be getting played for a while

[Wesley Wyndam Price]

Will those unlucky few (like me) that had their specializations re-locked have to start over and unlock them again?

P.S  If Bioware were to make Morrigan and Alistair romance-able by both genders it would be a great way to make up for the RtO/update mess :3

Modifié par Wesley Wyndam Price, 19 janvier 2010 - 02:45 .

[DreGregoire]

The Angry One wrote...

Are we supposed to disregard the fact that RtO on the 360 worked fine until they pulled it, and so are the versions floating around the net for the PC? Why? Because BioWare deigns to communicate with us from on high?

Guess what genius: If the facts contradicts what BioWare says, then BioWare are lying at worst, or being stupid at best.
Either one doesn't paint a pretty picture.

Lying about what exactly? That there were problems for 360 users?  I saw the posts by community members that reported the problems.  They pulled 360 because of the problems until they cropped up they had told us their intention of releasing it for pc, nothing ever about ps3 release date. Lying about creating a new process for testing all the platforms?  What would be the point, to have more people moaning about them on the forum? I won't even go there about any pirated software.

[DreGregoire]

Wesley Wyndam Price wrote...
P.S  If Bioware were to make Morrigan and Alistair romance-able by both genders it would be a great way to make up for the RtO/update mess :3

LOL not going to happen but would be nice, eh?

[Semyaza82]

Thanks for the update Victor - hope testing goes well. A quick question if i can (and someone else might actually know the answer as well). I downloaded the update and RtO when the appeared on Xbox marketplace - was it the update or RtO than caused the Specialization problem? It doesn't really matter i suppose, just realised i didn't actually know

Thanks again for the update!

[The Angry One]

DreGregoire wrote...

Lying about what exactly? That there were problems for 360 users?  I saw the posts by community members that reported the problems.  They pulled 360 because of the problems until they cropped up they had told us their intention of releasing it for pc, nothing ever about ps3 release date. Lying about creating a new process for testing all the platforms?  What would be the point, to have more people moaning about them on the forum?

The implication that RtO needs this "new testing procedure" when it doesn't, since it already works. They're really just delaying it due to the "everybody suffers equally" policy
No doubt a result of deals struck with MS and Sony so BioWare can milk even more money while giving two fingers to the player base.

I won't even go there about any pirated software.

I hate to break it to you, but the term "pirated software" is not one of the seven signs of evil. It can be discussed, and in this case it's very relevant. The fact that it's pirated and thus illegal does not change my point - that it works.
I am not advocating piracy, what I'm saying is that there's substantial proof that BioWare have no legitimate reason to delay RtO yet again, but are doing so anyway because MS's bribes favour is more important to them.

Modifié par The Angry One, 19 janvier 2010 - 04:16 .

[NYHoustonman]

TGore001 wrote...

Is it just me or are the PC gamers complaining more then 360 owners about RtO?

We (PC gamers) have an inferiority complex. If it looks like a console is getting preferential treatment, we can't stand by and do nothing! (or something like that)

It's necessary, though, as consoles continue to take more and more of the market. The preferential treatment that we were used to is all but gone; games like Dragon Age (forgettting for a moment this DLC debacle) are the exception rather than the rule.

[Varyen]

Slience is never good when dealing with a mob of gamers lol. With that said, Thank you for the updates Vic but I do have a HUGE favor to ask if you don't mind & I'm sure others think the same. Would it be to much to keep us the players up-to-date when these "hic-ups" happen? Poeple like info even if it's not good, lets them know they arn't being ignored.

[NYHoustonman]

Rommel49 wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

NYHoustonman wrote...
I expected you, then, to make a point against this person's argument, based on your cries of 'ad hominem'; the *ahem* outcome of events was contrary to what I was expecting . Granted, your grasp of the English language and arguments in general seems to be beyond my own (and I'm needlessly dragging this whole thing out... If nothing else it's a nice diversion), but this makes sense, no? 

At least, this was my line of reasoning, and while I suppose if you never intended to argue anything this is all moot, I think I'm being somewhat logical .

For the most part you are being logical.  You assumed that since I was being critical of this person that I was being critical of his argument.

Fair enough.

I do disagree with his the passion of his critique of Bioware over the whole RTO DLC thing, but I never once told him he couldn't argue his point.

I just wish people could do it without calling each other pointless names.

From your understanding of what you were saying, yes, you were being logical.

No harm, no foul.

Again, the pedantry arises, you probably want to use the word hypocrit and hypocrisy more than irony in the future.


We'll all be friends again when RTO comes out for real.
Well, most of us.

You have to watch out for that David Gaider guy, and his "ideas.":?

It's worth pointing out that your use of "ad hominem" wasn't actually correct. Translated it simply means "against the man" (that's why the entire fallacy is known as argumentum ad hominem). The fallacy does not apply to every single personal attack, insult, criticism, etc. against a person. It's essentially a form of red herring; when such an attack is both irrelevant and actually used as evidence against a position. Ironically, to say that somebody shouldn't be mean or insult someone and that it somehow diminishes a point being made falls under a logical fallacy all its own; "Style over substance".

Ahhhh, I give up! [runs away and hides]

[Goth Skunk]

Are you accusing BioWare of intentionally delaying the release of RtO across all platforms just to anger their customer base?



I just need to be clear, because I have a hard time believing something that stupid can come out of of a sensible mind.

[The Angry One]

Goth Skunk wrote...

Are you accusing BioWare of intentionally delaying the release of RtO across all platforms just to anger their customer base?

I just need to be clear, because I have a hard time believing something that stupid can come out of of a sensible mind.

No, I'm accusing BioWare of intentionally delaying the release of RtO for the sake of backhanders they recieve from Micro$oft.
I also accuse them of not caring about us and lying to us, because in the end we'll pay money either way.

[Goth Skunk]

That's quite the accusation, borderline Libel.

And unless you have proof to back it up, I wouldn't even entertain such a ridiculous notion.

Modifié par Goth Skunk, 19 janvier 2010 - 04:34 .

[Abriael_CG]

Goth Skunk wrote...
I'm amazed to see this thread has continued long after I went to bed. Evidently, I underestimated the stubbornness of certain individuals.

Given that you're here posting another wall of text for the sole reason of screaming "HE' S WRONG! DON'T LISTEN TO HIM! WAAAH!" I'm afraid that you are in no place to call others stubborn.

Seeing as how there is still criticism being flung around, allow me to bring up a statement: Anyone that thinks Abriael's criticism and tongue-wagging made anyone at BioWare bow their head in shame is sadly mistaken. I heavily suspect the only reason why we were given our latest tidbit of information was to shut him and me up. His refusal to see another person's point of view objectively was making this forum a difficult place to be in, though for a few folks I can imagine it was quite entertaining.

Abriael no doubt feels proud of his so-called accomplishment, and may even think himself as some kind of vanguard for change. He's not. Fact of the matter is, BioWare screwed up. They know they screwed up. They now know how they screwed up, and they know what needs to be done in the future.

yay for omniscent devs. They know everything and need to be told nothing. Then why are you here again?  
Please don't apply your own values to me. I'm not here to "win at forums", I'm here because i wanted a better degree of communication from Bioware. If Victor will manage to get bioware to understand the value of more informative community communication in the meetings he mentioned, then he's the one that should be proud, not me. In that case I'll be happy with the results. I'll leave the ranting and raving on who or what caused it to you.

They knew all this well before Abriael even said a word. To think they didn't would be extremely naïve.

Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. The sole fact that they feel the need to have meetings to discuss a possible change in communication policies is a good thing for things to come and it's an advantage to the whole community. For sure not just mine. The fact that you feel the need to do more feet somping, finger pointing and screaming because you think someone could perceive it as a personal "victory" of your dreaded enemy is quite paranoid, and it also shows that you don't really care about the problem at hand.
All you care about, like a real nice forum warrior, is to win at forums, and the fact that someone might perceive that you didn't infuriates you.

There's criticism, and then there's obnoxious self-entitlement wearing the disguise of criticism.

Which is very visible in your posts, given how entitled you feel at continuing to attack people personally over a difference in opinion, despite the fact that the same community manager that you're "defending" (like he needed your help, more sense of entitlement) told you clearly to cut it.

Particularly, complaining about a lack of communication and information being passed onto the consumer RIGHT AFTER a communication is sent out is actually rather crass and rude.

If there's something crass and rude, it's your continuated insults. But do go on, they are rather amusing in a way. The fact a community manager is "writing" doesn't mean that he's actually giving out any new infomation, but you seem unable to grasp the difference.
Luckily, that might change, and that's a good thing.

Goth Skunk wrote...

That's quite the accusation, borderline Libel.

Har har. This is seriously getting laughable. Did you send Bioware your resume as an attorney? I'm sure that they'll be so interested on how you'd handle the cruel "borderline libel" that the horrible, horrible fans dare to write in this forums.

And unless you have proof to back it up, I wouldn't even entertain such a ridiculous notion.

Careful people! Speculate only if you have proof! Otherwise it's libel and Bioware will sue you

Too bad that that kind of deals are very, very common nowadays in the gaming industry, and what we're seeing now seems to indicate that the possibility of such a deal to exist on DA:O is very solid.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 19 janvier 2010 - 04:42 .