1868 réponses à ce sujet

[Chriagon]

Victor Wachter wrote...



Short term, this means another delay across all platforms for the immediate console patches and Return to Ostagar DLC releases as this is a substantial increase in test coverage, and that time is needed to do so and ensure there are no other knock on issues with either the main game, the updates or the DLC.



Thank you again for your patience.

You know what, Bioware? Keep your DLC for yourself.

[MprezdNZ]

Victor Wachter wrote...

Guys, let's keep any feedback directed toward the update, not toward each other. You love us or hate us for the update, great. But don't hate on each other, 'k?

Victor, 

While I don't usually see totally eye to eye with Abriael, this is getting pretty frustrating for the pc community. Whether or not Bioware wants to admit it, the illegal version of the dlc for pc has been out in the open now for almost 2 weeks. I am ashamed to admit that many of my friends have taken to downloading it and not one of them has reported a problem with the dlc, any affect on the rest of the game (as many have played through with brand new characters) or on the giving of achievements. 

Bioware made pc users a promise after (I think it was after anyway) they delayed the release of the game so they could bring it on the consoles, that future releases would not be hampered by the consoles. If you can honestly tell me that Bioware has concerns about affects the dlc is having on the pc platform, then I have no choice but to accept that - contrary to what I have seen to date from people who have used it. However, as mad as I will be if Bioware is withholding it due to some kind of contractual agreement for simultaneous release, it will not stop me buying future dlc and continuing to support Bioware wherever I can. The company has given me far too many years of enjoyment to just turn my back on them. But I would prefer that Bioware now just admits it is the case so if there are issues with future dlcs we don't rehash these same conspiracy theories again. 

I would also like to make a small suggestion - pc users have far more control over their systems than console users do (I am thinking mainly of backing up data etc). Given the increased complexity of pcs due to different hardware configurations, couldn't Bioware see some benefit in releasing dlc on the pc (even in a controlled beta environment) so that we could aid in testing? I mean in this case, the dlc would be pretty close to being ok (if there are some minor bugs still in it) so why not use the community to do some solid testing? If the contractual issue is as above, then surely pc users testing the game would be of benefit to all 3 platforms to some degree?

I do hope you are able to respond. 

Cheers

[MerinTB]

Abriael_CG wrote...

MerinTB wrote...
No, wait, there you are now ad hominem. 
What's that?  You say this person doesn't want to be taken seriously so
he's resorted to name-calling those he doesn't agree with?

lemme check who's the first that made an ad hominem post... umh... ah yeah. Thought so.

"oh my god! That guy is criticizing them! Get the torches! He must be forcefully evicted from the thread!"
I wouldn't say it's "namecalling" to call the sky blue.
I'm glad to see that you learned two latin words though. You must feel very very smart

An ad hominem is basically name-calling,  You keep using the dismissive term fanboy.  It not only almost exclusively exists soley as an insult.

Pointing out that someone is being insulting is not an insult.  To call someone out for using the ad hominem logical fallacy is not an ad hominem attack itself, just to be clear.

But trying the "you, too" defense - that's a logical fallacy known as tu ququoe.  Your attempt to deflect from your own insulting, non-productive name-calling by claiming that I am calling you a name is just further weakening your argument.

See the further insulting you do there, with the "glad to see you learned" stuff?

To remove your straw man as well - I'm not calling you out for criticizing Bioware.  I'm pointing out how you are insulting people repeatedly in this thread.

I personally think that Bioware is being responsible and doing their job.  If you want to insult me by labeling me a fanboy, so be it.  But understand that you are insulting me, and that that is indeed an ad hominem attack.

Modifié par MerinTB, 19 janvier 2010 - 01:50 .

[Midnight Voyager]

Frankly, y'all all sound like three year olds. Hey, a forum argument on the internet! DOGPILE!
Man, I'm glad most of my enthusiasm for this DLC has been killed into apathy by the "carrot hanging over PC users' heads" delays. It's nice to feel zen about the entire matter.
Also, I never want to hear the phrase "ad hominem" again.

Modifié par Midnight Voyager, 19 janvier 2010 - 01:49 .

[Graciemae]

LMAO @ MprezdNZ

[Fexelea]

MprezdNZ wrote...

Victor Wachter wrote...

Guys, let's keep any feedback directed toward the update, not toward each other. You love us or hate us for the update, great. But don't hate on each other, 'k?

Victor, 

While I don't usually see totally eye to eye with Abriael, this is getting pretty frustrating for the pc community. Whether or not Bioware wants to admit it, the illegal version of the dlc for pc has been out in the open now for almost 2 weeks. I am ashamed to admit that many of my friends have taken to downloading it and not one of them has reported a problem with the dlc, any affect on the rest of the game (as many have played through with brand new characters) or on the giving of achievements. 

Bioware made pc users a promise after (I think it was after anyway) they delayed the release of the game so they could bring it on the consoles, that future releases would not be hampered by the consoles. If you can honestly tell me that Bioware has concerns about affects the dlc is having on the pc platform, then I have no choice but to accept that - contrary to what I have seen to date from people who have used it. However, as mad as I will be if Bioware is withholding it due to some kind of contractual agreement for simultaneous release, it will not stop me buying future dlc and continuing to support Bioware wherever I can. The company has given me far too many years of enjoyment to just turn my back on them. But I would prefer that Bioware now just admits it is the case so if there are issues with future dlcs we don't rehash these same conspiracy theories again. 

I would also like to make a small suggestion - pc users have far more control over their systems than console users do (I am thinking mainly of backing up data etc). Given the increased complexity of pcs due to different hardware configurations, couldn't Bioware see some benefit in releasing dlc on the pc (even in a controlled beta environment) so that we could aid in testing? I mean in this case, the dlc would be pretty close to being ok (if there are some minor bugs still in it) so why not use the community to do some solid testing? If the contractual issue is as above, then surely pc users testing the game would be of benefit to all 3 platforms to some degree?

I do hope you are able to respond. 

Cheers

Nice post. Unfortunately, a big part of simultaneous release agreements is to never ever ever blame them for any delay or such. (Great example on FFXIII) The promises made about not delaying anything further were probably earnest if just not possible to see through... In time, the development and testing will adapt to the new environment and things wil go smoothly. For now, it is likely all questions would be politely avoided and the answers will be carefully crafted and qualified statements of reassurance.

[ladydesire]

Abriael_CG wrote...

Oh I actually AM a fanboy, I'm a total fanboy of the actual game. What I'm not a fanboy of, is the software house that's continuing to uphold the same "zero solid info" policy over and over.
You might be ok with "we're working on it, there's no eta, wait longer". More power to you. For me it's gotten old, i'd like some real info. Maybe the fact that I work on marketing makes me more refractary to marketing tricks like "put zero information in a nice long press release, that still tells absolutely nothing else than what everyone already knows".

What if they did give us PC users a patch and acess to Return to Ostegar and suddenly an unforseen bug in some code that handles the achievements on PC locked out the Specializations? Would you be happy reading complaints from your fellow PC users? I think that's something that Bioware wants to avoid.

[Tor_pedo]

My suggestion: Get a super intelligent computer (like Kit in knight rider) and let it do all the testingwork for ya! I'm sure Kit wouldn't mind now that his show has been cancelled anyway. Less work for you - he could probably do it faster too! AND a nice guard if someone came to sneak away some pirated copies or steal bananas from your writers. It's a win-win for everybody!

that said, thanx for the update! I guess I'll be trolling the forums for another few weeks then, pulling my hair, reading naughty comics, etc.
I suppose i'm going to have to buy mass effect too then... *sigh* Pretty little BioWare deserves as much for making my favourite games. Damn you.

[Jules8445]

Okay, so. Just wanted to say thanks for the update! I'm sure that you guys are doing the best you can to get us quality content as fast as possible.

Personally, with a career and social life...I'm a little glad for the delays. The game was eating my soul during Christmas break and keeping me up too late once it was over. As much as I love soul eating from a game...the break is kind of nice.

[Graciemae]

Merintb meant Tu quoque

[MerinTB]

Midnight Voyager wrote...
Also, I never want to hear the phrase "ad hominem" again.

I'd like to never have to say it again.

addiction21 would like some tasty breakfast pastries.

Sloth of Doom would like even more opportunities to be sarcastic.

David Gaider would like a Hugo Award for The Calling.

Many people on here would like their DLC last week.

We all have to live with some disappointed.

[jennamarae]

Victor Wachter wrote...

I don't know the answer at the moment, but I'll find out. Seems like something you will need to know when the time comes, so I will make sure this does get answered one way or another.

I'd appreciate it if you would. Whether it officially comes out tomorrow or two months from now I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that it could cause another conflict if the version I have isn't compatible with future patches/DLC. Even if it's just a "Yes, you'll need to re-download" without any specifics, any answer to this will be much appreciated. I was upset enough to find the title update messed up my game, really don't want to have it happen twice if it can be prevented.

[Abriael_CG]

MerinTB wrote...
An ad hominem is basically name-calling,  You keep using the dismissive term fanboy.  It not only almost exclusively exists soley as an insult.

Actually "ad hominem" does not necessarily mean name calling. It simply means a remark directed to someone. Can be name calling, can be criticizing, can be ridiculizing, can be a lot of things, and the first "ad hominem" post here is this one. To which I simply responded. So I find it funny that you accused me to post "ad hominem" when i simply responded to an "ad hominem" attack.
That's what fanboys normally do. They feel the need to attack "ad hominem" everyone that dares to criticize their favourite developer.

I take it back though, you didn't really learn them...

[MerinTB]

Graciemae wrote...

Merintb meant Tu quoque

That I did.

[Goth Skunk]

Christ, there sure are a lot of babies playing this M rated game. Borderline addicts, selfish ingrates, and a lot of pompous arrogance from the customer community.



Buncha nobody's think they're all somebody's.

[Graciemae]

Awww, Goth Skunk is so sweet, lets all muss his hair

[Goth Skunk]

Graciemae wrote...

Awww, Goth Skunk is so sweet, lets all muss his hair

... what little hair I have left. XD

[MprezdNZ]

Fexelea wrote...

Nice post. Unfortunately, a big part of simultaneous release agreements is to never ever ever blame them for any delay or such. (Great example on FFXIII) The promises made about not delaying anything further were probably earnest if just not possible to see through... In time, the development and testing will adapt to the new environment and things wil go smoothly. For now, it is likely all questions would be politely avoided and the answers will be carefully crafted and qualified statements of reassurance.

Yeah and I 1/2 expect that will be the case. but I didn't see any harm in asking in a nice, non-threatening way. Obviously when you look at something for too long you begin to develop a thought process on what has happened, and then it is difficult to change your mind on that. I think that is where I am - I have almost zero doubt that an SR agreement is in place; but it would give me some level of comfort if I knew that. 3 days ago, I would have probably done the fingers to Bioware and walked away if they had admitted it - which would have been an overreaction on my part. Now, it is about the comfort of understanding where we are. 

I would understand if the agreement was in place, as they are a business and they do need to make money - and if everything was always released on pc first they probably would have missed out on lots of sales because, while many console users have pcs, they don't want to spend the money on keeping them up-to-date as gaming pcs. 

I guess I just want some transparency; but it won't be the end of existence if I don't get it (Victor this doesn't mean you have to take the easier way out of ignoring my post )

[MerinTB]

Abriael_CG wrote...

MerinTB wrote...
An ad hominem is basically name-calling,  You keep using the dismissive term fanboy.  It not only almost exclusively exists soley as an insult.

Actually "ad hominem" does not necessarily mean name calling. It simply means a remark directed to someone. Can be name calling, can be criticizing, can be ridiculizing, can be a lot of things, and the first "ad hominem" post here is this one. To which I simply responded. So I find it funny that you accused me to post "ad hominem" when i simply responded to an "ad hominem" attack.
That's what fanboys normally do. They feel the need to attack "ad hominem" everyone that dares to criticize their favourite developer.

I take it back though, you didn't really learn them...

Let me spell it right this time -
tu quoque.

And actually, an ad hominem isn't simply criticizing someone.  It's a logical fallacy because it derails or disrupts a discussion or debate without providing anything positive.  An actual definition -
Ad hominem - An ad hominem argument is any that attempts to counter anothers claims or conclusions by attacking the person, rather than addressing the argument itself.

Name-calling is the most prevalent form of ad hominem, and it is what you are doing with the constant antagonistic labeling of "fanboy."

Your constant dismissiveness of people as "fanboys" is exactly that. 
My pointing out that you are using that fallacy is not.

Point is made.  Deny it all you want.  Try to deflect it onto me or others all you want.  I've done what I felt I needed to.  Others can choose to listen to you or not while you continue to use your flawed arguments.
--


Don't worry, Victor - I'm done trying to reason with this person.


Thanks again for the update.

Modifié par MerinTB, 19 janvier 2010 - 02:02 .

[Abriael_CG]

Goth Skunk wrote...

Christ, there sure are a lot of babies playing this M rated game. Borderline addicts, selfish ingrates, and a lot of pompous arrogance from the customer community.

Oh my god! They dare to criticize a company for failing to meet a release window three times, screwing up the game on a whole platform, keeping silent for almost a week and then still giving no real info. They MUST be Babies! Borderline addicts! Selfiish ingrates! Pompous and arrogant! Nobodies! Kill Kill KILL!!!

MerinTB wrote...
Don't worry, Victor - I'm done trying to reason with this person.

Interesting how you think accusing someone to attack "ad hominem" for responding to an "ad hominem" attack (and of course completely ignoring the first one, because it happens to agree with your views, how convenient) pertains to reason 

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 19 janvier 2010 - 02:05 .

[Graciemae]

Leave him alone, he's having his hair mussed

[Gemini1179]

**CONTAINS RTO SPOILERS**

Thank you and the dev team for the update Victor. As someone who downloaded the title update AND RTO, I can't wait for a fix so that my lower level characters can access all the specializations. I'm not going to try and mess with my xbox 360's hard drive to possibly further complicate a fix, so I'll wait patiently.

While I know that you can still unlock the specializations each play-through, I was originally overjoyed at the fact that I wouldn't have to do it each time I played... cause then I'd have to play as a mage every time and either kill or have to lie to Lelianna.

As for RTO, other than the fact that the King's Armor drops as Red Steel (lvl 5 equipment) even if you're over lvl 20, I found no play issues with RTO at all (could be a few more enemies to cut through though).

Thanks for the hard work.

Modifié par Gemini1179, 19 janvier 2010 - 02:21 .

[Graciemae]

Well, thanks for the spoilers in a strictly NO SPOILERS forum

[Goth Skunk]

Abriael_CG wrote...

Goth Skunk wrote...

Christ, there sure are a lot of babies playing this M rated game. Borderline addicts, selfish ingrates, and a lot of pompous arrogance from the customer community.

Oh my god! They dare to criticize a company for failing to meet a release window three times, screwing up the game on a whole platform, keeping silent for almost a week and then still giving no real info. They MUST be Babies! Borderline addicts! Selfiish ingrates! Pompous and arrogant! Nobodies! Kill Kill KILL!!!

I have a 360. My DA:O works fine. I don't have RtO yet, but I'm not concerned. Why? Because I didn't buy RtO or get the title update like a door-crashing gamer.

And even if I did, so what? I have plenty of other games to bide my time with until a fix is made. Including Mass Effect 1, which I still have to re-do a Renegade Shepard with before the 26th.

If you can't live this long without playing DA:O, seek help. In the meantime, let BioWare do their thing. They know full well they've got egg on their face, and they're no doubt pretty embarassed about it, but feces happens. Grow up, man up, and wait.

[Abriael_CG]

Graciemae wrote...

Well, thanks for the spoilers in a strictly NO SPOILERS forum

You know that you can avoid reading a post that includes "**CONTAINS RTO SPOILERS**" at the very beginning.
Yay for the theory of gaze magnetism of spoilers.