1868 réponses à ce sujet

[Barbarossa2010]

Victor,



Thank you. As I had the opportunity to say to David Gaider, I will pass on the same compliment to you: it is a credit to Bioware that developers, writers and staff care enough to frequent the boards and provide us any news or commentary whatsoever outside of official releases. It is a new paradigm for me.



Whatever the delays, many of us appreciate your and the Team's engagement with us. It is a pleasant and unexpected bonus to a great gaming experience. Things happen, especially in an immersive and complex game like DA:O, and most people get it. It is a sad reality that we live in an immediate gratification culture, which drives people toward unrealistic expectations, but that's the way it is and you will have to reciprocate in patience as we are very eager to continue this journey you all have invited us to. Just don't let us down on content. That's the only thing that matters to most gamers. The wait is always worth it if the content kicks &s$.



I may have a number of complaints with the game, etc; but Team/staff engagement with end users and updates to the community is not one of them.

[MprezdNZ]

Dr Bawbag wrote...

MprezdNZ wrote...

chaostheory59 wrote...

Screw the DLC for now....Im gonna get my hands on Mass effect 2. there gonna be no way im gonna remember about this problem.

Didn't you hear? ME2 just got delayed a week

Haha. Seriously?

Nah not really. Would have been funny though 

[Abriael_CG]

Valdrane78 wrote...
Except they did communicate, they just didn't say exactly what some people wanted to hear.

No, they didn't say what's professional and warranted to say when you take people's money in advance.

They are under no obligation to give you every minute detail about everythign that is going on.

Oh, the lovely strawman argument that people love to pull up. I'm sorry, but the use of hyperbole won't add more ground to your arguments.
No one here is aking "every minute detail", so give it a rest, will you? 
Also "obligation" is a thing, "professionalism" is another. Being professional often requires to go beyond "obligation".

But most people wont be happy till they have an exact date, which is impossible considering all the channels they have to go through to release the content.

If you think they don't have a roadmap and schedule for release of their own product, I'm afraid you're the one that's severely understimating their planning abilities.
You don't go in ANY kind of business if you aren't able to plan this kind of things.

I also fail to see where they misled us.  Saying something will be out then having to pull it because it is not working properly is not misleading anyone.  Now if they said they would release it with having no intention of ever doing so would be misleading.

telling people that they will be able to buy something, only to taking it back a few hours later? yes, that's quite misleading. It falsely leads people into believing that the product is ready for purchase, hence, misleading.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 24 janvier 2010 - 04:20 .

[MprezdNZ]

Valdrane78 wrote...

Abriael_CG wrote...

Sorry but as said an hundred times (reading a thread may be a good idea before barging in wuth an utterly condescending attitude), there's a clear cut and undeniable cause-effect link between the representative of a developer telling "it will be released today" and people scrambling to buy the points.

Expecially since, at the moment, most of us have absolutely nothing to spend the points on. Microsoft points and warlmart cards are a very unfitting example, given that both Xbox Live and Walmart have an immense catalogue of products to chose from.

Also, since it looks that you didn't really read this thread, you missed the point most of us are making entirely:
The delays are only a small part of the problem. Delays happen (albeit three in a row happens a lil more rarely), and every single oneof us is used to them.
The problem has to do with utter lack of informative communication about the status of the product we paid for. Now Victor promised that the way they communicate will change, and we'll see how that pans out, but you can be sure that there would have been absolutely no change if people didn't stand firm in telling them that  "we're working on it, it's ready when it's ready" is not exactly the right way to communicate with customers that you're prompting, encouraging and even misleading into paying you in advance.

Except they did communicate, they just didn't say exactly what some people wanted to hear.  They are under no obligation to give you every minute detail about everythign that is going on.  They did in fact say "Hey, we screwed up, we are fixing it, we will update you when there is something to update!"  Then they went on to say hey yes we could have had more communication with you guys, we'll work on it.  But most people wont be happy till they have an exact date, which is impossible considering all the channels they have to go through to release the content.

I also fail to see where they misled us.  Saying something will be out then having to pull it because it is not working properly is not misleading anyone.  Now if they said they would release it with having no intention of ever doing so would be misleading.

I don't see where people are asking for every minute detail. And they are still yet to acknowledge that the dlc is out there for the pc, and almost everything I have read points it to having no issues. Which leads people to believe that the dlc is either being held back because a: they are secretly adding something cool to it and don't want the pirates to get wind of it or b: they have to wait for the consoles to be ready to release it due to some kind of simultaneous release agreement with MS. Given how hard it is to keep secrets in the gaming industry it is more likely to be b: which is really what most pc gamers here are angry about it. 

We were PROMISED that the consoles would not affect future pc services from Bioware after they held the game back 6 months or so so they could release with the consoles. Even if they came out and specifically said, "hey we know the dlc is out there but there are a few minor bugs that people may not have noticed. We want to put it through our full testing procedure to iron these out because we don't want anyone to suffer from the bugs" this point would basically cease to be an issue. But they haven't. So either their communication is still poor, or they can't say something like that because the pc game is actually ready. In which case, they misled pc users. 

And I will simply agree with Abriael about the Bioware points v Walmart giftcard analogy. To think that they even remotely compare is just pure idiocy. If you were arguing MS points v Walmart gift cards I would be more inclined to agree.

I am certainly not too worried about when this comes out as I will likely be tied up getting a character ready from ME1, and then playing ME2, but I do feel sorry for others who don't have something they are jumping to. While I sympathise with Bioware, they should have NEVER said it will be out later on today, without knowing they could back it up. Missing a planned release date is one thing - when you miss an unplanned release it says a: the dlc was ready to go but we were holding it back and b: it is still ready to go but now that someone else's version is screwed we won't be releasing it to you. Whether you care to admit it or not, Chris made a definitive statement. He then failed, at any point, to actually come back and say whoops sorry this came up and we can't release it now. That would have taken all of 2 minutes and would have at least placated some people here. 

[awsome_robot]

Abriael_CG wrote...

_LordKain_ wrote...

Wow....I mean....wow. Still the
same......vocal.....minority complaining. Do you people seriously have
nothing better to do on a saturday night but sit here in the forums
****ing about 5 bucks and a 1 - 2 hour dlc? /facepalm

Well, I'm going dancing....have fun with your F5 key.

So this is you I get it now...


On a side note, I always love the ones that come on forums screaming "I have a real life! Look at me! I'm going dancing with my beautiful blonde bombshell girlfriend! I have a real life! I'm not like you all!  Pay me attention!" :innocent:

I can almost feel the smell of basement dwelling and unwashed armpits all the way from their homes to here

if only you were kidding.

[KCFender]

MprezdNZ wrote...


I don't see where people are asking for every minute detail. And they are still yet to acknowledge that the dlc is out there for the pc, and almost everything I have read points it to having no issues. Which leads people to believe that the dlc is either being held back because a: they are secretly adding something cool to it and don't want the pirates to get wind of it or b: they have to wait for the consoles to be ready to release it due to some kind of simultaneous release agreement with MS. Given how hard it is to keep secrets in the gaming industry it is more likely to be b: which is really what most pc gamers here are angry about it. 

We were PROMISED that the consoles would not affect future pc services from Bioware after they held the game back 6 months or so so they could release with the consoles. Even if they came out and specifically said, "hey we know the dlc is out there but there are a few minor bugs that people may not have noticed. We want to put it through our full testing procedure to iron these out because we don't want anyone to suffer from the bugs" this point would basically cease to be an issue. But they haven't. So either their communication is still poor, or they can't say something like that because the pc game is actually ready. In which case, they misled pc users. 

And I will simply agree with Abriael about the Bioware points v Walmart giftcard analogy. To think that they even remotely compare is just pure idiocy. If you were arguing MS points v Walmart gift cards I would be more inclined to agree.

I am certainly not too worried about when this comes out as I will likely be tied up getting a character ready from ME1, and then playing ME2, but I do feel sorry for others who don't have something they are jumping to. While I sympathise with Bioware, they should have NEVER said it will be out later on today, without knowing they could back it up. Missing a planned release date is one thing - when you miss an unplanned release it says a: the dlc was ready to go but we were holding it back and b: it is still ready to go but now that someone else's version is screwed we won't be releasing it to you. Whether you care to admit it or not, Chris made a definitive statement. He then failed, at any point, to actually come back and say whoops sorry this came up and we can't release it now. That would have taken all of 2 minutes and would have at least placated some people here. 

Very good points all around. And there is no analogy to make that makes BioWare look anything less than uncaring to an appauling degree, quite seriously. Say that BioWare points ARE a giftcard in eery sense: If I bought a giftcard from a store, based on an employee of the store telling me that giftcard could be used later THAT DAY to buy something that turns out to not be available - Oh-hoh, I'd get a refund on that gitf card - oh yes - most definitely, and that store manager and that dumb employee would be gettting earfuls.

Me: "Your employee told me this card would be good for THAT product, TODAY."
A BioWare "store manager" in a supposed retail store: "Oh well, that's a non-refundable gift card and is not in any way responsible for what a particular employee may have said -"
Me: "You're an idiot, and I'm calling your regional manager."

People are arguing semantics and legalities to the Nth degree, but it only serves to try and ignore or circumvent the common sense of the situation. And the damage is already done, the actual status of RtO means nothing to me at this point. BioWare has clearly shown to me that they have far less care for customer service than even Walmart - to use just an example. A Walmart store manager absolutely WOULD refund a gift card if the card was obviously purchased based on false information. Because even Walmart can't afford to ****** off local customers by that much OBVIOUS disregard towards the responsibility of the words/claims/advertising that sells their products.
I find it sad that some people would take so much effort to defend such awful policies as the ones we've seen regarding RtO's delays and the customers who were duped into purchasing BioWare points. I'll state it again (and again): Anyone who, like me, purchased BioWare Points on the 13th most likely did so for one reason: due to a BioWare employee telling us those points would be good for something and SOON. We were lied to - misinformed at best - and deserve compensation. We just do, endofstory, no logical argument to be had, thanks for playing.

And yes, I've canceled ME2 and will not buy Awakenings. Before this fiasco, both products, I guarantee, would be already purchased by me without hesitation. Now I simply refuse to purchase any BioWare product new. I might buy them used at a heavily discounted price, but that's it. As far as this customer goes, BioWare's shenanigans have already cost them money, and I hope it costs them a lot more. Companies that are this cavalier towards customers simply do not deserve success and, until the wonderous days of internet video game retailing, would never HAVE success.

Barbarossa2010 wrote...
Victor,



Thank you. As I had the opportunity to say to
David Gaider, I will pass on the same compliment to you: it is a credit
to Bioware that developers, writers and staff care enough to frequent
the boards and provide us any news or commentary whatsoever outside of
official releases. It is a new paradigm for me.

You do know that this is simply Victor's job, right? He is simply doing his job, and if he weren't posting information on here for us, then his job would be 100% meaningless and most likely wouldn't even exist. It's a pretty easy job as it is, unless you're sensitive to people's written complaints, in which case you really shouldn't be in customer service at all.

God I wish I had strangers thanking me profusely for simply dragging myself to the work office on a work day and just barely doing the tasks expected of me. But I don't.

Modifié par KCFender, 24 janvier 2010 - 05:16 .

[awsome_robot]

Victor Wachter wrote...

Abriael_CG wrote...

Victor Wachter wrote...

From this point forward, any discussion of trolls/fanboys will get the poster a 24-hour ban. Flame wars are not allowed, so please review the site rules before continuing, and then do so civilly.

Ok, but what about giving us something that would put such discussions back in the background where they belong? We've gone quite a lot with no news. I thought you guys had some meetings this week about how to improve communication, yet, I don't see such an improvement.

We did. I put forth a proposal. It was accepted, and now we are in the process of getting me access to various databases and whatnot so that I can compile updates on a regular basis. It's coming, but a change in communication processes is not an overnight affair.

its been over a week, and communication is at its worst or should i say, THERE IS NO COMMUNICATION. At least before the supposed "meeting", you guys used to drop by every couple of days and say something.

Modifié par awsome_robot, 24 janvier 2010 - 06:39 .

[Aslend]

Victor Wachter wrote...

Note: The above message comes from Fernando and the Dragon Age team, who are hard at work getting things sorted out. But they also took the time to work with me, so we could get some messaging out to community to let you know how we are addressing the situation.

I was certain this kind of corrective meassure was in place and your willingness to keep communicating to us is not only appreciated, but admirable. My only suggestion would be to have real world beta testing performed, then you will get a better idea of how it will interact with existing content and structure. In a lab enviornment is a nice aspect of game production to have, but is never a true test of real world scenarios.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

awsome_robot wrote...

Victor Wachter wrote...

We did. I put forth a proposal. It was accepted, and now we are in the process of getting me access to various databases and whatnot so that I can compile updates on a regular basis. It's coming, but a change in communication processes is not an overnight affair.

its been over a week, and communication is at its worst or should i say, THERE IS NO COMMUNICATION. At least before the supposed "meeting", you guys used to drop by every couple of days and say something.

At this rate its about on the same level as saying maybe someday we'll have some info about info that may or may not be forth coming. More meetings needed to determine outcome.

Personally it all comes off as damage control to me. If they admit the're at the mercy of MS cert on this it means they broke their promise that the PC users wouldn't be put on the back burner due to the consoles. At this point I really don't care about RTO at all, (haven't for a good week to be honest) what does bother me is the complete lack of respect and support. So there were meetings late last week/early this week to better the flow of comunication from the community reps to the fan base and yet pretty much zero has come out of it since we know about as much about the status of the PC version now, than we did 2 weeks ago.

If there's people that don't see anything wrong with that, I honestly don't know what to say at this point. At any rate its pretty sad. I cringed initially when Bioware and Pandemic partnered up with EA affiliated Elevation Partners figuring it would eventually lead to EA taking over. Fast foward a year or two ahead, Pandemic has esentially closed shop and Bioware's customer support is immensly lacking. Not to solely lay the blame at EA's feet as they've actually put out some new ip's and have taken some chances the last couple of years but still, it certainly no longer feels like the Bioware I'd grown to love over the past decade is quite the same as it was these days.

[Abriael_CG]

Feraele wrote...

And of course Abriael NEVER does this..and Sarah NEVER does this....

There's a big difference between actively partecipating to a discussion while adding a lot to it, and just dropping in to give the usual trite "get a life" ultra-consdescending (and inflamatory) remark without even reading the rest of the thread, missing the point entirely in the meanwhile.

Oh wait. Why am I responding? I forgot that Feraele had to do her daily (more hourly) finger-pointing against her "enemies". Carry on, trooper. :innocent:

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 24 janvier 2010 - 08:34 .

[n0y0ki]

apparently some of us could use with a slight dash of silly, and unstuff their shirts and ties.
peptic ulcers do noone any good

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Feraele wrote...

You can't have a discussion or debate all by yourself..you need other people to do that as well..  You also need to allow others to state their opinions...thats how it works.

If you aren't willing to do that, you don't have a conversation.

The thing is you don't debate or discuss. Like I've mentioned already having a difference of opinion is fine. Acting all codescending and cherry picking posts without actually adressing the full body of a post is not adding to the discussion at all and is completely different.

[Fatclassic]

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[addiction21]

n0y0ki wrote...

apparently some of us could use with a slight dash of silly, and unstuff their shirts and ties.
peptic ulcers do noone any good

Speaking of ulcers, I just ate a bowl of moms chili I had in my freezer. I am going to be regreting that in a few hours.

[Nitro Saber]

They really need to fix the blood vial glitch before the expansion comes out or new levels will be to easy to level past. Ohstart the game get 2 ostagar and do the vial mission bring the vials back repetivly talk to the quest guy and in twenty minutes level twenty-five and also the infinite money glitch w/ junk come on i know mass effect two is a big deal but dot allow the two main glitches of infinite experience or infinite money or people will eat up the gamerscores and trophies. Your welcome for the tip Bioware.
-Nitro Saber

Ps. Sorry if there r Any spoilers in this post

[leadds]

i was wondering if i would be charged for RTO since i already bought and downloaded it and then cleared my hard drive and cant get it again. PS: i never noticed any specialisation problem. and nitro u probally destroyed some kids dreams of being the first to lvl whatever there boosting it to via blood vials

[n0y0ki]

addiction21 wrote...

n0y0ki wrote...

apparently some of us could use with a slight dash of silly, and unstuff their shirts and ties.
peptic ulcers do noone any good

Speaking of ulcers, I just ate a bowl of moms chili I had in my freezer. I am going to be regreting that in a few hours.

pepcid is your friend, this i kno.
i take it daily.

[Glorfindel7]

Coming to the forum once a week to announce they have nothing to say may to some that BW has achieved the pinnacle of customer communication; to others, not so much.



The announcement that they are forming a task force to review communication re the release of RtO would suggest that the release may not be in my lifetime. But I am a grandfather; there remains hope for the younger generations.

[n0y0ki]

Nitro Saber wrote...

They really need to fix the blood vial glitch before the expansion comes out or new levels will be to easy to level past. Ohstart the game get 2 ostagar and do the vial mission bring the vials back repetivly talk to the quest guy and in twenty minutes level twenty-five and also the infinite money glitch w/ junk come on i know mass effect two is a big deal but dot allow the two main glitches of infinite experience or infinite money or people will eat up the gamerscores and trophies. Your welcome for the tip Bioware.
-Nitro Saber

Ps. Sorry if there r Any spoilers in this post

and what, you think they will take all the achievements and trophies, leaving you none?
people play how they play.
you play your way and let things be what they are.

[Darth_Shizz]

Glorfindel7 wrote...

The announcement that they are forming a task force to review communication re the release of RtO would suggest that the release may not be in my lifetime. But I am a grandfather; there remains hope for the younger generations.

I'll carve the release date into your headstone myself.

[Barbarossa2010]

KCFender wrote:

Barbarossa2010 wrote...
Victor,

Thank you. As I had the opportunity to say to
David Gaider, I will pass on the same compliment to you: it is a credit
to Bioware that developers, writers and staff care enough to frequent
the boards and provide us any news or commentary whatsoever outside of
official releases. It is a new paradigm for me.

You do know that this is simply Victor's job, right? He is simply doing his job, and if he weren't posting information on here for us, then his job would be 100% meaningless and most likely wouldn't even exist. It's a pretty easy job as it is, unless you're sensitive to people's written complaints, in which case you really shouldn't be in customer service at all.


God I wish I had strangers thanking me profusely for simply dragging myself to the work office on a work day and just barely doing the tasks expected of me. But I don't.

Aw...is somebody feeling left out?

Repeat after me: "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me." 

Thanks for whatever it is you do. That better?

Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 24 janvier 2010 - 09:27 .

[Abriael_CG]

Feraele wrote...
Yet another example...assigning labels and dismissing what is said.  Take a step back from your own important views and just consider for a moment that there are other viewpoints out there...worth discussing or maybe not..but not for ripping, shredding and casting away soon as they are posted.

One cannot participate if...every time one does there are two people on the thread actively discouraging that by their behaviour.

Now if I came in here and decided to just clone talk everything you say, in other word blindly follow you and agree with everything..you wouldn't have a problem would you?   Nope.

But being that I don't and I do offer up other ideas, other ways of looking at things...you immediately descend on anything I say and tear it apart.

So there's no conversation here, no debate....only what you and Sarah deem fit to talk about.   Those that agree with you are allowed to bask in your shadow..the others not so much.

More finger pointing... More "Abriael and Sarah are evil!"screams.
You posted basically nothing else since the beginning of this thread (and the other ex-sticky one), and it's obviously becoming a tad stale. If you didn't notice it, lately I've been ignoring most of your posts, simply because everyone already noticed that you chose your enemies, you will post nothing else than attacks to them through the whole thread, over and over and over and over and over.
At this rate, talking to you is really like beating an horse that has been killed, revived with the lazarus project, beaten some more, killed, revived again, beaten, killed, and so forth, 'til the end of time.

To put it down simply, Feraele, it's been fun for the first three pages. At the moment dealing with you has become a chore. So, thank you for your consideration, but I'll pass.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 24 janvier 2010 - 09:26 .

[atheelogos]

Elerrina_7 wrote...

I dont care about the DLC i just want my specializations and saves fixed >.<

Same here. I was hoping to play Dragon age to hold me over until ME2, but now.....