1868 réponses à ce sujet

[Nadez666]

Wow, Okay nothing new, Though Surprisingly im not all that upset, Ive also reached the Zen State of not careing by the by I find whoever said that remarkably funny and cool, I just wish I could play and buy the damn thing, but im starting to not care, oh and is anyone else finding it weird Chris hasn't responded yet? can someone say fired

[bconk55]

Abriael_CG wrote...

Goth Skunk wrote...
I have a 360. My DA:O works fine. I don't have RtO yet, but I'm not concerned. Why? Because I didn't buy RtO or get the title update like a door-crashing gamer.
And even if I did, so what? I have plenty of other games to bide my time with until a fix is made. Including Mass Effect 1, which I still have to re-do a Renegade Shepard with before the 26th.
If you can't live this long without playing DA:O, seek help. In the meantime, let BioWare do their thing. They know full well they've got egg on their face, and they're no doubt pretty embarassed about it, but feces happens. Grow up, man up, and wait.

You know that having a life, getting laid, having a self esteem, 32 years behind one's back, other games to play (I have to finish Assassin's creed 2 and to begin Forza Motorsport 3, which is chunk of gameplay bigger than what Bioware will give me in a few years, for sure, this not to mention the whole backlog of games that never got their turn in the console), doesn't really change the fact that Bioware dropped the ball hard and are being extremely inefficent in their communication?

I have plenty of things in my hands, but this doesn't change the fact that I don't like to be given the bait and switch, or that I consider acceptable acceptable to lure customer in paying for a product and then making them wait for that product indefinitely with no given timeframes. It's not that complex, is it?.

That's all well and good, except you haven't been hounding these forums because of lack of information. You dismiss all informaiton given to you.

You aren't here because you were cheated out of money. You would be going through customer service attempting to rectify that.

You're here because you want the DLC, and you wanted it weeks ago, and nothing will change that fact. You could be given all the information that BioWare has, BioWare could be the most ethical company in the history of business, and yet you'd still be here complaining, because for all your talk you are here for one reason and one reason alone. Give me my RtO. And because of that, it doesn't matter how many issues you can raise with BioWare, because the resolution of any and all of them would not result in your appeasement and your absence from this forum.

As for your claim that my first post to you was ad hominem...hardly. I'm not saying you're an (insert clever insult) so your argument is invalid. I'm saying MY argument is that you've been disingenuous about your goal. Do you find that insulting? Sure, and I would too. That does not make it untrue, however, and it certainly doesn't make it a logical fallacy. Now saying that my proclaimation (that you were being disingenuous) is invalid because I am a "fanboy", that is an ad hominem, as it results in a logical fallacy. That is, MY being a "fanboy" has no direct influence on whether or not YOU are being genuine.

Modifié par bconk55, 19 janvier 2010 - 02:49 .

[Goth Skunk]

Abriael_CG wrote...

Good for you if you see integrity. When I see no real informative communication after three delays and a massive screwup. When I see that despite the fact that they already have our money or encourage us to give it without a product out or even a timeframe. When I saw promises that the console version would have never delayed or influenced the PC version, and now i see that influence happen, I'm sorry, but I begin to doubt that integrity.

RtO does not make or break DA:O. It's a fantastic game with or without the add-on. And given the other BioWare games I've played -- Mass Effect, Jade Empire, Star Wars -- yes, I say they have enviable integrity.

As I mentioned before in the other forum, in my line of work when there's a problem, two things usually get done: Fixing the problem, and answer phone calls looking for a status update. I never answer those phone calls, because they force me to stop working on the problem. You want an update? It'll be done when it's done, stop bothering me.

The release dates previously mentioned are all based on a reasonable assumption that nothing will go wrong. This whole business with the XBox update and RtO is an exception to the rule, because nobody could have predicted what would have happened.

[ShaggyWolf]

DoctorPringles wrote...

Thank you, and send warmest regards to the Team. We do appreciate their work!

Quoted for truth!

[NYHoustonman]

MerinTB wrote...

Abriael_CG wrote...
There's NOTHING else in this post. But fanboyness is a form of blindness, so paint me unsurprised if you're unable to see it.

No, wait, there you are now ad hominem.  What's that?  You say this person doesn't want to be taken seriously so he's resorted to name-calling those he doesn't agree with?

Surely, ad hominem, he's invited you into this thread for better reasons.

Reason and you don't mix?

Oh, right, I'd forgotten.  Name-calling is a sign of a weak argument, or at the very least a weak arguer.

Thanks for the reminder, ad hominem!  See you soon I'm sure!

:innocent:

The irony in your statement being that you haven't contributed anything useful to the thread yourself? Aha, I get it!

[Abriael_CG]

bconk55 wrote...
That's all well and good, except you haven't been hounding these forums because of lack of information. You dismiss all informaiton given to you.

I don't dismiss any information. there ISN'T ANY new information.

They told us "we're working on it, There is no ETA" a few days ago. They told us exactly the same today. Just with more words.

You aren't here because you were cheated out of money. You would be going through customer service attempting to rectify that.

Excercise in futility. Bioware points are not refundable.

You're here because you want the DLC

I'm sure you read minds, given that you seem to think you know why I'm here for better than me.

As for your claim that my first post to you was ad hominen...hardly. I'm not saying you're an (insert clever insult) so your argument is invalid. I'm saying MY argument is that you've been disingenuous about your goal.

Posting to accuse someone to be disingenuous is exactly what "ad hominem" means. Unfortunately for your misguided argument, "ad hominem" isn't limited to straight out insults, clever or not.
You saw someone criticize your beloved software house, and you felt the need to personally attack him. That's what fanboys do, simple as that.

As of me being disingenuous. If Bioware told me "we're releasing RtO the 1st of March" I'd say "Fine Bioware, while your planning ability sucks, see you on March the 1st" and go do my business and play other games.
The fact that you can't conceive daring to demand informative communication to a software house that is in debt with their customers (given that they encourage us to pay them beforehand), doesn't mean that others don't feel that perfectly logical.
What you can't understand isn't necessarily wrong.

[bconk55]

NYHoustonman wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Abriael_CG wrote...
There's NOTHING else in this post. But fanboyness is a form of blindness, so paint me unsurprised if you're unable to see it.

No, wait, there you are now ad hominem.  What's that?  You say this person doesn't want to be taken seriously so he's resorted to name-calling those he doesn't agree with?

Surely, ad hominem, he's invited you into this thread for better reasons.

Reason and you don't mix?

Oh, right, I'd forgotten.  Name-calling is a sign of a weak argument, or at the very least a weak arguer.

Thanks for the reminder, ad hominem!  See you soon I'm sure!

:innocent:

The irony in your statement being that you haven't contributed anything useful to the thread yourself? Aha, I get it!

I don't see a complaint about the lack of usefulness, only about the existence of a logical fallacy. Now I suppose you could equate a logical fallacy with something that is useless, and then say that by complaining about it he is complaining about something being useless, but certainly the pointing out of a fallacy has more use than the fallacy itself.

[TheNecroFiend]

So how much of a hit do you think they will take on RTO. Considering that Mass Effect 2 comes out next week. From the sounds of the OP it dosen't look like we will be getting the fix this week. I probably wont be touching DA untill I've played the hell out of ME2.

[bconk55]

Abriael_CG wrote...

Posting to accuse someone to be disingenuous is exactly what "ad hominem" means.

No, it isn't.

As for the rest, it's all things I've already addressed (in the very post you're replying to, in fact). Repeating it isn't going to make you magically understand. I'm not defending BioWare's actions, I'm condemning yours.

Modifié par bconk55, 19 janvier 2010 - 03:00 .

[DragonRageGT]

Abriael... hope you never "delay" a delivery to a girl! And have her putting this much pressure on you for that! You will end up "delaying" again and again and not all your fangirls will be able to fix your image after that... at least not for the one that got "delayed" her pleasure!

Now, serious, go play "that which shall not be named" and get over it! It might work for the delayed girl as well!

Modifié par RageGT, 19 janvier 2010 - 03:02 .

[Abriael_CG]

Goth Skunk wrote...
RtO does not make or break DA:O. It's a fantastic game with or without the add-on.

How does that make lack of communication on RtO less of a problem?

And given the other BioWare games I've played -- Mass Effect, Jade Empire, Star Wars -- yes, I say they have enviable integrity.

Integrity and Quality are different things, and seeing aberrations like pinnacle station shows me that even quality isn't *always* that high.

As I mentioned before in the other forum, in my line of work when there's a problem, two things usually get done: Fixing the problem, and answer phone calls looking for a status update. I never answer those phone calls, because they force me to stop working on the problem. You want an update? It'll be done when it's done, stop bothering me.

Wow. I'm glad I'm not your customer, because honestly that's rather rude. Not to mention extremely u nprofessional. If you don't want to "waste time" adressing the requests of customers that aren't receiving the service they paid for, pay someone to do it.
That's why bioware has community managers.

And believe me, you can be just as glad that you don't work for me, because if one of my contractors shown that attitude, he would have to look for another chance somewhere else very, very soon.

The release dates previously mentioned are all based on a reasonable assumption that nothing will go wrong. This whole business with the XBox update and RtO is an exception to the rule, because nobody could have predicted what would have happened.

Sorry, but missing THREE release windows in a row can only mean extremely poor planning.

sprybry wrote...

@Abriael_CG: you don't sound like a cg
noob. you've never experienced delays before? to use your own words -
no one put a gun to your head and forced you to pre-order the
dlc.

While I wouldn't equate a community manager coming out and saying "it's comiong out today" to pointing a gun to someone's head, i'd say it's at the very least misleading, and justifies the many that bought the points, trusting bioware's "integrity" in keeping to their word in such a small timeframe.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 19 janvier 2010 - 03:15 .

[DragonRageGT]

On a side note to previous post... I am not halting my 5 chars run anymore and waiting for RtO. I'm playing the game without it and you know what? It is a hell of a game!

I just hope it is out before all 5 chars reach level 15 as that was my planned level for doing RtO. They're all 12 atm and since it will take 5 times longer than my usual to reach my target level, I still have hope.

[Abriael_CG]

sprybry wrote...

Entitlement?

ENTITLEMENT! 

Most definitely. When you ask for someone's money without giving them a product, you entitle them to be demanding for information on the status of that product.
Again, I'd say it's very basic ethics.

[Abriael_CG]

RageGT wrote...

Abriael... hope you never "delay" a delivery to a girl! And have her putting this much pressure on you for that! You will end up "delaying" again and again and not all your fangirls will be able to fix your image after that... at least not for the one that got "delayed" her pleasure!

Besides the rather crude double entendres, I work with deadlines every day of my life. And guess what, If I happen to miss one (sometimes it does happen, no more than once in a while and once per project though), i work overnight and on week ends to make it up. But beyond that, you can be most sure that I would never tell my clients "I'm working on it, there's no ETA, I'll let you know when it's ready, don't bother me".

Even because, If I did, I'd never hear from that client (and anyone in the market that talks to him) again.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 19 janvier 2010 - 03:14 .

[Alphakiller]

while I would probably be dropped into the "fanboy" category for being supportive of the developers, I have to point this out. the third post to be exact.

[T1l]

RageGT wrote...

On a side note to previous post... I am not halting my 5 chars run anymore and waiting for RtO. I'm playing the game without it and you know what? It is a hell of a game!
I just hope it is out before all 5 chars reach level 15 as that was my planned level for doing RtO. They're all 12 atm and since it will take 5 times longer than my usual to reach my target level, I still have hope.

Hey, Rage, you appear to have the achievements associated with That Which Shall Not Be Named - so you uninstalled it and are now playing without it? Why bother?

[Goth Skunk]

Abriael_CG wrote...


Integrity and Quality are different things, and seeing aberrations like pinnacle station shows me that even quality isn't *always* that high. 

You get what you pay for. I liked Pinnacle Station

Wow. I'm
glad I'm not your customer, because honestly that's rather rude. Not to
mention extremely unprofessional. If you don't want to "waste time"
adressing the requests of customers that aren't receiving the service
they paid for, pay someone to do it.
That's why bioware has community managers.

And believe me, you can be just as glad that you don't work for me, because if one of my contractors shown that attitude, he would have to look for another chance somewhere else very, very soon. 

Then I guess it's a damn good thing I'm good at what I do, that I can afford to be as unprofessional as you claim. Bottom line, at the end of day, professionalism or no, the job gets done. To me, that's more important than pandering to your every unreasonable demand for a status update.

Sorry, but missing THREE release windows in a row can only mean extremely poor planning.

You still don't get it. You can't plan for unintended, unforeseen bugs. They throw a monkey wrench into the whole project. Release dates be damned.

[Abriael_CG]

sprybry wrote...
i notice that you didn't quote the last part of my post about the very strange "release announcement".  are you telling me that you didn't find that announcement weird?  360 first?  pc later in the day? (especially since everyone has been of the mind that the pc version has been complete for some time).  nothing about the events of that day felt right.  it seemed that something went wrong, and that bioware was scrambling to "catch up" (which proved to be true).  while i understand that you wanted to download and play rto, i honestly feel that you misled yourself.

Logic says that no developer without a few gallons of alchool in his veins would tell that a product is going to be released the same day witjout being absolutely sure that such product is perfect and ready to ship. Unfortunately sometimes even logic fails.
So no, while playing extreme devils advocate can be sometimes fun, it's a tad farfetched here. That post was plenty misleading abd there's really no blame to be put on the ones that bought the points when they read that.

[Abriael_CG]

Goth Skunk wrote..
You get what you pay for. I liked Pinnacle Station

You mean that ensemble of recycled assets and poor AI programming (it's funny how on normal difficulty on survival missions I have to literally suicide after 20 minutes in which the enemies can't kill me, just for the sake of progressing)?
You sure are easily pleased.

Then I guess it's a damn good thing I'm good at what I do, that I can afford to be as unprofessional as you claim. Bottom line, at the end of day, professionalism or no, the job gets done. To me, that's more important than pandering to your every unreasonable demand for a status update.

When a customer isn't getting the service he's paying for, I wouldn't say the "demands" are unreasonable. Quite the contrary, the only thing i find unreasonable is your attitude.
But hey, you're mirroring Bioware's attitude quite well "we're damn good at what we do, so we can afford keeping our customers in the dark, they'll buy it anyway".

Unfortunately they don't teach professional behavioir  and the value of customer satisfaction in most schools.

You still don't get it. You can't plan for unintended, unforeseen bugs. They throw a monkey wrench into the whole project. Release dates be damned.

Oh i get it very well. It may happen, but if it does, you better be damn apologetic about it, and communicative on how and when you're going to solve it. If you don't, sorry, but you're being unprofessional, that's all there is to it.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 19 janvier 2010 - 03:27 .

[Goth Skunk]

Abriael_CG wrote...

Logic says that no developer without a few gallons of alchool in his veins would tell that a product is going to be released the same day witjout being absolutely sure that such product is perfect and ready to ship. Unfortunately sometimes even logic fails.
So no, while playing extreme devils advocate can be sometimes fun, it's a tad farfetched here. That post was plenty misleading abd there's really no blame to be put on the ones that bought the points when they read that.

Good lord, you are so full of yourself it's hilarious!

You simply don't get it, do you?

[Abriael_CG]

Goth Skunk wrote...
Good lord, you are so full of yourself it's hilarious!

To be honest after writing this:

Then I guess it's a damn good thing I'm good at what I do, that I can
afford to be as unprofessional as you claim. Bottom line, at the end of
day, professionalism or no, the job gets done. To me, that's more
important than pandering to your every unreasonable demand for a status
update.

You have quite some guts calling someone else "full of yourself"

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 19 janvier 2010 - 03:30 .