89 réponses à ce sujet

[oO Stryfe Oo]

Cyonan wrote...

"I'm pretty sure they won't allow you to level the entire map" sounds suspiciously like talking about destroying the entire map, which are the exact words you said as a counter-argument to my point.

Let's assume that Mass Effect 4 has horde mode in it which is a pretty safe assumption even if they do add new game modes. How do you propose they have a system where you are put on a map for X number of waves where destructible cover does not become a frustration half way through the game?

See, the problem isn't really with Mass Effect 3's design. It's more with the game mode in general and having limited cover which you're expected to make use of for a long period of time.

You could severely limit how much you can destroy, but then what's the point of even having destructible environments?

I was thinking more or less having destructible events in the environment that could change the way the map played out, providing universal advantages or disadvantages, either for an extended period or the rest of the game.

Of course maybe have certain walls be destructible, and the odd piece of cover here and there, but not all of it. In no way would having the entire map be destructible be a good thing. I thought I made that clear, but I just want to reiterate here how bad of an idea that is.

The way I was looking at it was as an expansion on the concept of Hazard maps BW implemented. Key differences would be that every map would have multiple events/Hazards that could change the tactics you'd use for that map, and that the Hazard/Events would affect enemies as much as they affect players, something BW failed on with the visibility and reactor Hazards this time around.

[Creator Limbs]

Operating Wookie...u ok?

[Sailears]

Crates, containers, sections of wall (after being broken by high impact Throw for example).

Maybe loose parts of the map could be "moveable" by biotics depending on mass and the rank/spec of the power? So for example a r3 lift could move something the size of a small box, and a r6 lift could move a vehicle.

Maybe certain things could "respawn" after waves (small objects) if there are waves?

I mean in ME1 you could lift certain bits of cover along with the enemies.

[Cyonan]

oO Stryfe Oo wrote...
I was thinking more or less having destructible events in the environment that could change the way the map played out, providing universal advantages or disadvantages, either for an extended period or the rest of the game.

Of course maybe have certain walls be destructible, and the odd piece of cover here and there, but not all of it. In no way would having the entire map be destructible be a good thing. I thought I made that clear, but I just want to reiterate here how bad of an idea that is.

The way I was looking at it was as an expansion on the concept of Hazard maps BW implemented. Key differences would be that every map would have multiple events/Hazards that could change the tactics you'd use for that map, and that the Hazard/Events would affect enemies as much as they affect players, something BW failed on with the visibility and reactor Hazards this time around.

Again, I'm not talking about being able to destroy the entire map.

From the sounds of it you want to severely limit the amount of actual cover which is destructible in which case that feels more like a gimmick that doesn't need to be there in my opinion.

Exploring more into the hazards is an idea I like, but the actual destructible environments just doesn't feel like it fits.

[Sailears]

^Structures could be made to collapse in a handful of set ways, resulting in new cover situations?

So a tall wall can break down into low cover, every time, leaving you with debris you can throw around (like the gravity gun)?

Modifié par Curunen, 27 août 2013 - 12:46 .

[ValorOfArms777]

Carnage needs one of these buffs
-Larger radius with a tad extended DoT of 3-5sec)
-Larger damage
-Faster recharge

CryoBlast
-Insant freeze be nice

Pull
-srsly IDK how to fix this one but needs a fixing

Sabotage
-Increase the duration of hack synthetics and their attack retaliation time

Turrets
-Booster their tally toughness
-Make their cryo ammo instant

Modifié par ValorOfArms777, 27 août 2013 - 05:09 .

[Red Panda]

prostheticlimbs wrote...

Operating Wookie...u ok?

Better than ever.

[TheJimMan]

OperatingWookie wrote...

prostheticlimbs wrote...

Operating Wookie...u ok?

Better than ever.

I sense an imminent forum sudoku...

[ToLazy4Name]

TheJimMan wrote...

OperatingWookie wrote...

prostheticlimbs wrote...

Operating Wookie...u ok?

Better than ever.

I sense an imminent forum sudoku...

Alright, you got me. 

[RedJohn]

ValorOfArms777 wrote...

Carnage needs one of these buffs
-Larger radius with a tad extended DoT of 3-5sec)
-Larger damage
-Faster recharge

CryoBlast
-Insant freeze be nice

Pull
-srsly IDK how to fix this one but needs a fixing

Man I bet you we will have new cool shiny powers to lift armored units.

Also, i'm intrigued by the visuals.

Modifié par RedJohn, 27 août 2013 - 01:12 .

[Robbiesan]

Damn, that looks great.  Being a BF fan since BF1942, wow... looking forward to BF4.  (the only things is, should I bother buying XB1 or waiting to see the new release.  So tempted to pre-order, but will wait.)

I am guessing BW will be using these great features in the next ME.  So much potential here....

Yes, I am with others in that we definitely need more than horde mode.  With the FB3 engine I suspect we will see different modes of play, or at least, I sure hope so.

wow, tons of potential here.  I am glad BW is going to use the FB3 engine. 

[loupert]

Levolution looks amazing!

I was gonna recommend Banana peels and Red Turtle Shells.

[oO Stryfe Oo]

Cyonan wrote...

Again, I'm not talking about being able to destroy the entire map.

From the sounds of it you want to severely limit the amount of actual cover which is destructible in which case that feels more like a gimmick that doesn't need to be there in my opinion.

Exploring more into the hazards is an idea I like, but the actual destructible environments just doesn't feel like it fits.

Severly is a harsh word. Destructible cover is something that should be limited, though. Everything else is fair game, and I hope that dynamic changes to maps is something BW seriously considers, but no. Not cover. At least, not all of it.

It's cool if you don't like the idea, but that doesn't mean it couldn't work or be made to fit the universe.


@ Curunen

I like it. It'd be a good way to inject some strategy into the game.

[Mindfane]

"Levolution" is not a new concept. Turning lights off, rising barricades.. are no different than closing the reactor door in ME3. Sameway the collapsing building, the ship that wash ashore.. are also gameplay events which just introduces a few collision volumes into the map and thus altering the cover and path.

The idea is not new; but good none the less. But we must remeber one thing. BF4 is a PvP game and both sides could trigger these changes and adapt to it. If there is a PvP mode in ME4, then this is pretty good. But what about PvAI mode? I am not sure the AI in ME4 is going to be that advanced that they will alter the map themselves and change their strategy. Thus in a PvAI map, 90% of the time, players will trigger these actions and make use of it. So after a few weeks, players will discover what alterations are advantageous to them and always follow the exact same strategy in every game in a particular map - making the idea of 'No two games are the same' moot.

@Caratinoid.
Both BF3 and BF4 features pretty good destructive environments. Most of the buildings can be collapsed - well atleast the walls. Some buildings and walls are not collapsible for balancing purposes - for example a building that houses an objective.. But in BF3, no cover is permanent - except the terrain. With tanks and RPGs, you can drill a huge hole in almost anything.

PS: One game where altering the environment can significantly affect your game play is 'From Dust' from ubisoft. - But it has no multiplayer and it is not a shooter.

Modifié par Mindfane, 27 août 2013 - 04:57 .

[Gao Qiu]

Tokenusername wrote...

Red Faction was doing massive environmental changes way back on like the PS2.

OT, in short this is nothing but marketing. What they are selling is dynamic environments, which the industry has been doing for years. While these all seems real cool, it's mostly just flash.
For the topic of ME, it would not work the same. The idea is that BF has PvP combat in a large environment with longer matches. The level of dynamic changes is to create variety over a longer period of time, mostly through options that create very short term advantages rather than significant battlefield changes. ME is wave based cooperative combat. This sort of system would be flawed as only one side of the conflict would be strategizing. Games would quickly boil down to the ideal map formats that players would exploit on AI enemies not intelligent enough to adapt to the changes.

In short, this is a pretty gimmicky concept that has existed for years and would not have a significant positive influence on design.

Yes, but imagine if ME MP coop wasn't wave based, but mission or even campaign based, with more of a feeling of a real large-scale war.  There would still be a place for a quick wave based mode like they have now, with environmental hazards exploitable to a lesser degree, but a larger co-op mode with this new technology...nice.

I think that the scale and flexibility that is on display, at least, is enough to differentiate from the initial attempts at this in the PS2 days as well.