32 réponses à ce sujet

[knownastherat]

Dual daggers for a Warrior do make a lot of sense, but I can see how definition of "sense" could prove troublesome

No where it is written a warrior ought to wear Massive armor. Warriors can wear light armors too, Shadow of the Empire is an excellent early item for an agile warrior, so is Felon's coat later. Who needs armor protection when not getting hit?

As said above investing 7 points into Strength, 14 + 4 + 7 gives access to Death Blow which not only takes care of any stamina issues, but it allows, with proper gear, to equip the heaviest armors around. Then again, when fighting Branca for +3 Strength mace and seeing she cannot hit level 18 DW Dex based warrior with 140+ defense with 2 dagger the idea of equipping 42 strength armors became moot.

Modifié par knownastherat, 20 janvier 2010 - 08:10 .

[dkjestrup]

Daggers ARE the best weapons, DPS wise, it's been proven. All the weapon buffs (runes, magic spells, poisons, berserk) don't scale with weapon speed, stupidly.



So where originally a dagger might do 5 damage and attack once per second, for 5 DPS and a longsword might do 10 damage every two seconds for 5 DPS, now a dagger does 10 damage every one second, for 10 DPS, while a longsword does 15 damage every two seconds, for 7.5 DPS.



Also, the Roses Thorn is so awesome that it increases the gap further. It is much better than anything, from the Veshaille to the Chasind Great Maul.

[LarryFine]

knownastherat wrote...

Dual daggers for a Warrior do make a lot of sense, but I can see how definition of "sense" could prove troublesome

No where it is written a warrior ought to wear Massive armor. Warriors can wear light armors too, Shadow of the Empire is an excellent early item for an agile warrior, so is Felon's coat later. Who needs armor protection when not getting hit?

As said above investing 7 points into Strength, 14 + 4 + 7 gives access to Death Blow which not only takes care of any stamina issues, but it allows, with proper gear, to equip the heaviest armors around. Then again, when fighting Branca for +3 Strength mace and seeing she cannot hit level 18 DW Dex based warrior with 140+ defense with 2 dagger the idea of equipping 42 strength armors became moot.

Dual daggers on a warrior may make sense but they make more sense on a rogue.  Of course following this line of thought it makes even more sense for a rogue to be a cunning based dagger instead of a dex based dagger as its been proven that cunning gives the rogue more damage.  Cunning increases penetration score and with lethality it effects dagger damage.  Lethality also adds +10 critical chance and evasion gives a +20% resist to stuns and knockdowns and +20% to dodge/parry.  This of course is a big deal as dual dagger warriors have no resistances built into the character for stuns or knockdowns.  Assassin specialization adds another 2.5% to critical chance meaning 12.5% chance for a rogue to critical butt naked.  Mark of death gives additional damage to the entire party and exploit weakness increases the damage of backstab based on your cunning score.  Without even seeking out equipment that increases critical chance on my last playthrough I had zeveran who I never even used at 30% critical chance. 

Either a dex or cunning based dagger is bar none the deadliest character in the game.  I've heard people say they're only the best when it comes to single target damage but with my warrior at these low levels I could kill my own 2 targets and swing over and help alistair, Leliana, and Morrigan with the ones they were working on with ease.  With that being said if I wanted to wield toothpicks I would have chosen a dagger rogue.  I picked a warrior because I wanted to wield 2 full size weapons strutting around wearing massive armor. 

On my 3rd playthrough I'm going to make a 2h warrior tank and on my 4th playthrough maybe I'll make a dual dagger wielding warrior and see how awesome he or she will be and how right you all are.  With the stats you give he does really seem like the perfect tank and with the light armor you could get a much better crit rate out of him than you can with with my massive armor dual long sword wielding warrior.  I love this game and I relish the thought of playing it over and over although my wife wishes she'd never got it for me for Christmas.  After those 2 play throughs I'll move on to the rogue character and make a dex dual wielding rogue and a cun dual wielding rogue and see for myself which is better.

p.s. At level 8 I've only died once so far and all I have is a set of studded leather cured armor.  I'm stuck in the circle quest or I'd go and get myself a set of heavy chain but oh well so far equipment doesn't matter other than my weapons.

Modifié par LarryFine, 21 janvier 2010 - 02:16 .

[krsboss]

OK, from what I took from the OP's original post was that he was questioning that;



ignoring any armor penetration, a character that does high damage with every hit will do more damage to an highly armored enemy over time than a character that hits more often but does less damage.



...and what several posters along the way have said is that the best two-handed warrior is actually a dual wielding rogue!



...I'm currently playing a 2h warrior on nightmare and an having less difficulties than with my previous dual-wield rogue & dagger/shield warrior. After raising strength to 42, i've been mostly raising willpower. It's currently sitting at level 16 and I'm hitting for 80-100 damage on regular hits, with my highest damage at ~220 for a single hit! It really doesn't take long to kill enemies, even elite or bosses. The high willpower allows me to keep indomitable & powerful swings persistently active with only a minor drop in stamina (300 reserved)...most standard enemies fall or are near-dead to a regular hit followed by either sunder arms or armor depending on cooldowns. Both of these hit for double and can be activated as soon as you connect with your original blow to artificially boost your attack speed!



Naturally having two-weapons with 3 runeslots means you can seriously boost your DPS, as well as having more slots for flavor such as +spell/physical resistance, however not all enemies are be susceptible to all forms of elemental damage!



....and for those who say this is better than that or that xxx is t3h dealiest...everything is circumstancial, and whatever enables you to complete the game was as good as it was required to be to achieve the goal! ...yes there are naturally more potent combinations, however without any sort of DragonAge PvP possible, it's all subjective, you cannot actually set up a fight between two different characters....and anyways, a good build in a bad players hand is usually less effective than a bad build in a good players hands!



cheers...krs

[Haplose]

LarryFine wrote...
I played a sns champion templar and he did have the greatest survivability as there were many fights where he was the last man member of my team standing.  His screen said he had a damage of almost 60 but I saw mostly 40's out of him.  He still lead my team with 30% of the damage output.  Sten only had a damage of around 70 although he didn't have a top tier 2h weapon. 

My dual wielding warrior with 31 dex and less than 24 str dual wielding the oatkeeper and  tier 2 thorn of dead god's already has 26 damage on his main hand and 22 on his offhand.  I fought the revenant in the circle tower with Leliana, Wynne, and Alistair.  Wynne was  instructed to heal when a party members health  dropped below 75%.  Alistair managed to die in the time it took me to circle behind the revenant and my dual wielding warrior tanked the revenant into oblivion.  The circle is the first place that I've gone this time so its probably easier but during this same fight with my sns warrior in my first playthrough with the same team the revenant killed everyone except Wynne and Wynne spent the time running around in circles until her revive spell was off its cool down because it initially killed alistair and I revived him only to have it squash him again and my pc as well.

Maybe I'm a better player or maybe its the fact that instead of raising my str first I've focused purely on raising my dex first but my dw warrior is a monster.  Once he hits level 12 and gets 2 full sized weapons I'm going to be very interested in seeing how he matures.  To this point I haven't take a single warrior talent either.  My toon hits level 9  next so he will get dual wielding expert then he'll get the 3rd talent in the berserker line at 10.  At 11 I'll give him precise striking and at 12 dual weapon mastery.  Momentum + Precise striking + haste with the dmg  he does now I'll admit I get the shivers just thinking about it.

If your going the max Dex route it makes no sense to use two (or even 1) fullsize weapons. Daggers are the only melee weapon that get damage bonus from Dexterity.

At 31 Dex and 24 Str you are somewhere near break even point for fullsize weapons and daggers.

1:1 Strenght:Damage ratio with a 1 modifier for fullsize weapons would mean: (24 Str - 10 base) x 1 = 14 + higher base weapon damage

0,50:0,50 Str/Dex:Damage ratio with a 0,85 modifier for daggers: (31 Dex - 10 base) x 0,425 = 8,925 and (24 Str - 10 base) x 0,425 = 5,95; together 14,875 but lower dagger base damage

If you factor in weapon speed and runes, damage buffs (flame, frost, telekinetic weapons) and poisons already dual daggers should be the winner. As you increase the gap between Str and Dex, the advantage of daggers will only become more pronounced.

So it really makes no sense to take the top Dual Wielding Talents like Dual Weapon Mastery if you go the Dex route.
Well, maybe get it for the tiny reduction in Talent's Stamina cost, but only when you already have nothing better to pick.

[Bekter]

Nearly all bonuses are applied per weapon so faster attack speed and more weapons means greater damage output. I have played through the game with DW and Two Hander and can definitively say that DW is much better in nearly every situation than Two Hander. Go for Momentum/Haste and Dual Striking (the increased animation speed and damage of DS increases DPS more than criticals).

[Haplose]

Dual-wielders don't have Indomitable. That alone is HUGE.
Plus 2H Sweep is sweet.

Modifié par Haplose, 22 janvier 2010 - 09:02 .

[dkjestrup]

I have to say, I really like my 2h warrior (Berserker/Templar because I'm doing a no-mage playthrough and have no other way of dealing with mages, currently with 90% spell resist with 2 rune slots (missing the GM rune, but I'd need a 3 slot weapon (Chasind Great Maul) for that)).



Indomitable is really awesome, I love facing bards (like Leliana's ghost for the Gauntlet) when they use captivating song. It's pretty hilarious. I picture my character as Simon Cowell: "that is absolutely terrible, it makes no difference to me though" *smack*.



I also think the animation for Mighty Blow is wicked.



You will do decent damage, though from what I hear, it doesn't match a dual dagger warrior. I can't play one without the patch for my PS3 though! >.>