Except Corypheus and Flemeth were always made to survive their encounters with Hawke and the Warden. There was never an option to kill them.
The Nature of the Darkspawn: the Archdemon vs. Corypheus
Débuté par
In Exile
, août 27 2013 05:37
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#52
Posté 27 août 2013 - 10:36
AresKeith
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Filament wrote...
Far be it for a few characters among the thousands you slaughter to actually escape your character's omnipotent omnicidal wrath, right?
"But my character is an ultra badass who can kill anything"
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#53
Posté 27 août 2013 - 10:37
cjones91
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Exactly and anyone who says otherwise just has a problem with their player character not being a all knowing god like they think they are.Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
Except Corypheus and Flemeth were always made to survive their encounters with Hawke and the Warden. There was never an option to kill them.
#54
Posté 27 août 2013 - 10:37
Lord Issa
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While I agree that players should not for the most part complain at the revelation that approximately 0.1% of the bloodied bodies they leave in their wake may not be entirely dead, I must say that Corypheus' survival disappointed me as it was one of poor Hawke's few achievements that made him/her stand out.
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#55
Posté 27 août 2013 - 10:41
Shadow Fox
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Because badly injured=dead right?caradoc2000 wrote...
It seems to me that most major character do this in DA.Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
Basically it sounds like your problem is that no NPC should be allowed to fake their death to escape.
I prefer the ME2 approach, the characters that get killed in the suicide mission stay dead.What's wrong with not allowing the player to kill important characters.cjones91 wrote...
What's wrong with characters surviving a attempt
on their lives by the PC?
Welcome to the world of retcons and non canons.
#56
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Posté 27 août 2013 - 10:43
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I don't like the idea that it's not an accomplishment without killing. I'd say beating him within an inch of his life and forcing him to jettison the escape pod counts for something. You accomplish depriving him of his original body and possibly some of his power. I guess in this case your goal was to stop Corypheus from escaping altogether, but again, what experience does Hawke have to ever expect a darkspawn to swap bodies like that? Hawke is not the Warden. Killing someone based on a suspicion of something that's never happened before, from Hawke's point of view, would be fairly insane, I think.caradoc2000 wrote...
Maybe, but why give the player the option to kill Corypheus in the first place. Why not have him fly away when he sees he is losing.
I resent the fact that I dodged his flaming merry-go-round for half-an-hour only to be told "tough luck, dude - you didn't actually kill him at all" This effectively takes away all player accomplishment.
I know this argument only goes so far because Hawke could have had other options to act on suspicion beyond killing, however, it's useful against the "why can't I kill hiiiiiiiim" arguments, at least.
#57
Posté 27 août 2013 - 10:44
caradoc2000
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Right, "'Tis just a scratch" said the Black Knight.Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
Because badly injured=dead right?
Modifié par caradoc2000, 27 août 2013 - 10:46 .
#58
Posté 27 août 2013 - 10:45
Mr.House
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It looks like some people didn't pay attention at all to the end of the fight with Cory. Right before the killing blow happens, Cory looks right at the warden in the background and smiles, we are then shown a shot of Hawke ready to kill with the warden in the background, they do some kind of shake. Then we have the conversation after that is just weird for both characters and then they are smiling as they walk away. If he's not alive, then I'm a fairy.
As for Flemeth, you where told in DAO that Flemeth is not dead, not the writers fault you did not pay attention.
Seems you just want your ego fed so you can feel like a badass.
As for Flemeth, you where told in DAO that Flemeth is not dead, not the writers fault you did not pay attention.
Seems you just want your ego fed so you can feel like a badass.
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#59
Posté 27 août 2013 - 10:58
AresXX7
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TBH
I have no issues with Corypheus surviving, so long as he's not the one responsible for the tear in the veil.
That would just be too awful of a cliche.
Not to mention, it would make Hawke the biggest ass in Thedas.
(s/he suffered enough of that w/the ending of both DA2 & MOTA IMO)
I have no issues with Corypheus surviving, so long as he's not the one responsible for the tear in the veil.
That would just be too awful of a cliche.
Not to mention, it would make Hawke the biggest ass in Thedas.
(s/he suffered enough of that w/the ending of both DA2 & MOTA IMO)
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#60
Posté 27 août 2013 - 11:06
Shadow Fox
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In Leliana's case we never see the warden kill her.caradoc2000 wrote...
Right, "'Tis just a scratch" said the Black Knight.Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
Because badly injured=dead right?
And considering people have survived would be fatal wounds in real life I'd say her return was plausible.
#61
Posté 27 août 2013 - 11:10
cjones91
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Not to mention she was near a object with magical healing properties.Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
In Leliana's case we never see the warden kill her.caradoc2000 wrote...
Right, "'Tis just a scratch" said the Black Knight.Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
Because badly injured=dead right?
And considering people have survived would be fatal wounds in real life I'd say her return was plausible.
#62
Posté 27 août 2013 - 11:14
caradoc2000
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They were all near an artifact with magical healing properties (AKA Bioware writing team)cjones91 wrote...
Not to mention she was near a object with magical healing properties.
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#63
Posté 27 août 2013 - 11:19
Shadow Fox
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My headcanon is the Guardian bought her back as a giant middle finger to the Warden for pissing on the Ashes.cjones91 wrote...
Not to mention she was near a object with magical healing properties.Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
In Leliana's case we never see the warden kill her.caradoc2000 wrote...
Right, "'Tis just a scratch" said the Black Knight.Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
Because badly injured=dead right?
And considering people have survived would be fatal wounds in real life I'd say her return was plausible.
(ofcourse she was my Warden's BFF or girlfriend so this doesn't apply to me:lol:*
#64
Posté 27 août 2013 - 11:35
Fast Jimmy
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AresXX7 wrote...
TBH
I have no issues with Corypheus surviving, so long as he's not the one responsible for the tear in the veil.
That would just be too awful of a cliche.
Not to mention, it would make Hawke the biggest ass in Thedas.
(s/he suffered enough of that w/the ending of both DA2 & MOTA IMO)
I could actually see that as being entirely possible. Corypheus' very few lines shows he is still obsessed with entering the Golden City, which entailed sacrificing thousands of slaves via blood magic and wound up nearly destroying the world a number of times over. Who's to say he wouldn't pick right back up trying to bust a hole into the Fade to enter the City.
It makes sense to me as an option, at the least.
#65
Posté 27 août 2013 - 11:39
AresKeith
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Fast Jimmy wrote...
AresXX7 wrote...
TBH
I have no issues with Corypheus surviving, so long as he's not the one responsible for the tear in the veil.
That would just be too awful of a cliche.
Not to mention, it would make Hawke the biggest ass in Thedas.
(s/he suffered enough of that w/the ending of both DA2 & MOTA IMO)
I could actually see that as being entirely possible. Corypheus' very few lines shows he is still obsessed with entering the Golden City, which entailed sacrificing thousands of slaves via blood magic and wound up nearly destroying the world a number of times over. Who's to say he wouldn't pick right back up trying to bust a hole into the Fade to enter the City.
It makes sense to me as an option, at the least.
If it doesn't happen in DA:I then it'll most likely be in the next two, maybe the others like Corypheus will show up
#66
Posté 27 août 2013 - 11:42
Daerog
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I think the Architect should also be brought up in this discussion, as it and Corypheus are pretty similar.
My theory is this, that the ancient magisters (or whoever was involved with starting the Blight) are of the blight. They are whole blight, unlike the archdemon, which is a tainted old god.
As emissaries, the Architect, and specially trained mages can draw magical power from the blight, I assume it is like some sort of anti-life or anti-fade in its being, so even if the Architect is killed, the being known as the architect seems to go back to the blight as a dead person goes to the Fade, and will later be reborn without memories (in the case of the architect), but a more knowledgeable blight magister (or just more knowledgeable mage in general) would send his essence from one blighted presence to the next.
So, Corypheus did not have his soul clash with the other person's soul, as is what happens with old gods, as his soul, his being, is tied with the blight, unlike everyone else's. Edit: As for the archdemon, it seems like its life is just chained to the blight, but not stuck within it as Morrigan is able to draw the soul with blighted material, and not have it be tainted afterward.
My theory is that the ancient magisters have achieved a type of immortality that has broken all the rules, as they created another state/realm of being through the blight... or accidently created it and are forever damned to be reborn as destructive monsters that eat at the life of the world.
I assume we'll run into more such beings.
My theory is this, that the ancient magisters (or whoever was involved with starting the Blight) are of the blight. They are whole blight, unlike the archdemon, which is a tainted old god.
As emissaries, the Architect, and specially trained mages can draw magical power from the blight, I assume it is like some sort of anti-life or anti-fade in its being, so even if the Architect is killed, the being known as the architect seems to go back to the blight as a dead person goes to the Fade, and will later be reborn without memories (in the case of the architect), but a more knowledgeable blight magister (or just more knowledgeable mage in general) would send his essence from one blighted presence to the next.
So, Corypheus did not have his soul clash with the other person's soul, as is what happens with old gods, as his soul, his being, is tied with the blight, unlike everyone else's. Edit: As for the archdemon, it seems like its life is just chained to the blight, but not stuck within it as Morrigan is able to draw the soul with blighted material, and not have it be tainted afterward.
My theory is that the ancient magisters have achieved a type of immortality that has broken all the rules, as they created another state/realm of being through the blight... or accidently created it and are forever damned to be reborn as destructive monsters that eat at the life of the world.
I assume we'll run into more such beings.
Modifié par DaerogTheDhampir, 27 août 2013 - 11:50 .
#67
Posté 27 août 2013 - 11:42
Maconbar
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We already know that an arch demon can't be killed without a special procedure. Why would it be surprising to encounter another powerful tainted being that can't be killed except under special circumstances?
#68
Posté 27 août 2013 - 11:50
Jedi Master of Orion
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I can see maybe why someone would complain about Leliana or Anders being brought back, but Corypheus was an example of an enemy where the same quest that involves you killing him also makes it clear he survived. It's not a decision that was overridden in a later game.
As for the Veil Tear, he could be responsible but if he seeks "the light" wouldn't he know better than anyone that it's not in the Black City? I mean even a normal person can see that the city is black just by looking at it in the Fade.
As for the Veil Tear, he could be responsible but if he seeks "the light" wouldn't he know better than anyone that it's not in the Black City? I mean even a normal person can see that the city is black just by looking at it in the Fade.
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#69
Posté 27 août 2013 - 11:50
RazorrX
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I got the definite vibe that Corypheus jumped into the warden as he was slain.
I just assumed that as he had managed to control them for so long their souls had more or less become in sync with him making them a possible vessel. Thus an Archdemon jumping into a Warden the souls would be out of sync and destroy each other, where Corypheus had managed to attune the warden for his jump.
I wonder if an archdemon were to jump into a warden late in the taint, would the soul still destroy each other or would the wardens have become in tune with the Archdemon?
I just assumed that as he had managed to control them for so long their souls had more or less become in sync with him making them a possible vessel. Thus an Archdemon jumping into a Warden the souls would be out of sync and destroy each other, where Corypheus had managed to attune the warden for his jump.
I wonder if an archdemon were to jump into a warden late in the taint, would the soul still destroy each other or would the wardens have become in tune with the Archdemon?
#70
Posté 28 août 2013 - 12:08
ev76
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Yeah I believe Cory jumped into either Larius or Janeka, and escaped. What makes it interesting is that after all that Cory (Larius/Janeka) mentions that they will pay a visit to the head warden in waisshaupt (spelled correctly?). Which begs to question can Cory the vacate Larius/Janeka body and get into the head warden body?
#71
Posté 28 août 2013 - 01:00
Jaronking
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If Corypheus can jump in another person body or warden body ,when the architect couldn't when u kill him there was a whole group of wardens their and he didn't go in there body so I don't think corypheus could so he has to be dead
#72
Posté 28 août 2013 - 01:17
AresKeith
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Jaronking wrote...
If Corypheus can jump in another person body or warden body ,when the architect couldn't when u kill him there was a whole group of wardens their and he didn't go in there body so I don't think corypheus could so he has to be dead
Corypheus and the Architect are not the same person
For all we know Architect can do things that Corypheus can't do
#73
Posté 28 août 2013 - 01:20
Jedi Master of Orion
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We don' know that The Architect and Corypheus are the same type of being.
#74
Posté 28 août 2013 - 04:12
BioWareM0d13
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Ieldra2 wrote...
Can someone explain this to me please? Because I can see no hint whatsoever of that happening in the events after the fight with Corypheus.Han Shot First wrote...
[/i]caradoc2000 wrote...
Corypheus is dead. The only jumping being done is some forumites jumping to weird conclusions.
No one is jumping to conclusions there. It was heavily implied that Corypheus possessed the Grey Warden. It wasn't even subtle.
As I see it, everything is best explained by assuming that Corypheus is dead.
While Hawke is busy killing Corypheus the Grey Warden can be seen in the background convulsing, and afterwards the Grey Warden adopts Corypheus' Yoda-like speech pattern. "My gratitude you have...for my freedom." The Grey Warden's final words are also accompanied by eerie music and a sinister smile as he/she walks away.
#75
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Posté 28 août 2013 - 04:35
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Fast Jimmy wrote...
Probably by using mages who weren't Grey Wardens? Just shooting in the dark here.
EDIT:
OR... they could have sealed a Grey Warden away in these Wards, then had some non-Grey Wardens kill Cory, causing his soul to escape to the nearest one... who would then already be locked away behind layers of magic?
Either way, they would have had to use someone like Hawke (a non-Warden) to capture him the first time. That's the only way I can see that happening.
Is it stated somewhere that a darkspawn's soul travels to another creature with the taint when it "dies?" He isn't an "old god," is he? I don't know where you're coming up with that particular point.
