163 réponses à ce sujet

[ziloe]

What? Since when did Corphyeus jump bodies? There was no hint of that whatsoever.

[n7stormrunner]

ziloe wrote...

What? Since when did Corphyeus jump bodies? There was no hint of that whatsoever.

go play it again, this time pay attention to the warden it the background. 

[Brian Lewis]

@OP: I have a theory on this. First, I think that instead of Corypheus destroying the soul of the Warden he possesses, he instead moves the Warden's soul into the body he just vacated. Second, unless I am misremembering, the Archdemon is driven mad by the taint and it's soul transference is instinctive. The taint drives it's actions rather than the Old God it used to be. It just instinctively jumps to the nearest tainted being with no consciousness, no reason to expect a soul and does not realize the Warden it's trying to possess has one until it is to late to stop. While Coryphus is insane, his mind is still his, he still has his ability to use magic, and for all we know, he was body hopping since the founding of Tevinter. His skill with magic and the fact that the taint is not driving his actions, at least not as much as it does the Archdemon, could also account for him being able to possess a Warden without his soul being destroyed.

[In Exile]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...
My theory is that the ancient magisters have achieved a type of immortality that has broken all the rules, as they created another state/realm of being through the blight... or accidently created it and are forever damned to be reborn as destructive monsters that eat at the life of the world.

Which would be fitting, because the whole point of this Black City business was (allegedly) immortality. 

Modifié par In Exile, 28 août 2013 - 06:02 .

[blaxof]

I feel like flemeth was with the magisters i don't exactly remember her story or what was given to us but what if she was andraste at the seat of the maker and when the magisters got there they also corrupted andraste i don't know if my timeline is right that would explain flemeth's super powers i feel like i need some flemeth blood to fully understand Corph could she her and just recoil in horror of the memories of his body being tainted and andraste screaming...ok my rant's done

[The Six Path of Pain]

I highly doubt he's anywhere near as powerful as an Archdemon. Hawke stopped him with just his/her own little crew. While every single Archdemon needed an entire army made up of Grey Wardens and either several nations and or group of people (ex: The Dalish and The Circle). Also his control of the Darkspawn seemed alot more sloppy while an Archdemon controls the entire Darkspawn populous and makes them pretty well organized. Though he is able to affect Grey Wardens with his mock call and if he really did jump into a Wardens body, which is heavily hinted that he did, then that's two things that The Archdemon can't do. Which is pretty impressive.

[The Elder King]

The Wardens need an army to kill an archdemon because there is a horde of darkspawn with him.
While killing an archdemon (regardless if you're a Warden or not) is definitely a great challenge, and probably more difficult than 'killing' Corypheus, it's not an impossible task. It's likely that during the first Blight that Dumat died several times, before the ones that became Wardens understood his powers.

[Han Shot First]

n7stormrunner wrote...

ziloe wrote...

What? Since when did Corphyeus jump bodies? There was no hint of that whatsoever.

go play it again, this time pay attention to the warden it the background. 

...and also the Warden's dialogue afterwards. The Warden starts talking in an odd Yoda-like manner, just like Corypheus.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 28 août 2013 - 08:55 .

[ThreeGemSheepy]

Corypheus is a blood mage and a magister.
Whereas an archdemon is a big powerful dragon that is been corrupted by a random darkspawn.
Corypheus is a HUMAN (kind of). An archdemon has no realation to the warden except for a bit of taint. Whereas corypheus is a human that has contracted the taint. Which would be more able to control a grey warden.
A blood mage tainted human.
Or a giant ass tainted dragon

[Brodoteau]

Fast Jimmy wrote...
But his mastery over the taint, and the immortality that gives him, makes him much more difficult to stop. Making perhaps Hawke the most foolish, ignorant and reckless person to walk the face of Thedas.

I don't think this is fair to Hawke.  First of all he/she had to break the seals to escape.  By the time that the seals were so weakened, Hawke believed he needed to stop Cory from escaping.  Hawke was trying to help.  Secondly, he/she had no idea what Cory was or was able to do.  Thirdly, Cory attacks him/her.  Hawke had to defend him/herself.  

Now, ultimately, was freeing Cory reckless.  Maybe.  We'll see.  But going with the theme of DA2, where Hawke is often thrown into situations where he/she has to survive, then I don't think you can call him/her foolish.  What else was Hawke supposed to do?

As far as Cory jumping into people -- do we know that this is something that can only be done by those that have been tainted?  Demons and spirits, after all, merge with different people (see Justice and Anders for example).  Uldred manages this through blood magic. The Grey Warden taint might simple give Cory the "permission" to jump souls that demons get threw acceptance or blood magic.  Or maybe Cory was using blood magic.   No need to go overboard with Corypheus' mastery of the taint.  Now why the archdemon doesn't do this, I dunno.  But all this makes me think that darkspawn and abominations are not that the different after all.    

[Vortex13]

ev76 wrote...

Yeah I believe Cory jumped into either Larius or Janeka, and escaped. What makes it interesting is that after all that Cory (Larius/Janeka) mentions that they will pay a visit to the head warden in waisshaupt (spelled correctly?). Which begs to question can Cory the vacate Larius/Janeka body and get into the head warden body?

Hmm... very interesting theory. It would explain why the Grey Wardens are 'occupied' for the events in DA:I. If such a theory is correct, it would mean that the Grey Warden order would be compromised, which would explain why the Inquisition would lay siege to their fortress, and why a Grey Warden is a member of the player's party.

Although, speaking as a player that likes to have their cake and eat it too, I wouldn't really like to have to choose between Corpheyus controled Grey Wardens, or killing the corrupted members of the order.

I mean such a choice would make sense in the C&C heavy DA:I that we are seeing:

You can attack the Grey Wardens to remove Corypheus's control, but this will leave the order weak and vunerable; unable to provide much help in the final battle.

OR

You can leave Corypheus in control, with his promise to aid you in the final battle with a full strength Grey Warden army.

Heavy choice and consequence, but my: Completionist, "Everyone Must Like Me!" playstyle will make that increadibly difficult (if true) 



But back to the disscussion of Corypheus, the Architect, and their possible roles in DA:I (or future games); I really hope that they are not the ONLY means we have of interacting with the Darkspawn in terms of story and dialouge. I want to see, interact with, and possibly side with an Awakened Disciple as well. 

Let the 'regular joes' (as in not being some super powerful, 'special' Darkspawn) have their time in the spotlight. Yes, I know that Awakened Darkspawn are powerful and 'special' compared to non-Awakened Darkspawn, but I would much rather have a Disciple as an ally then having to deal with the Architect or Corypheus. Plus, how would the Awakened fit into the grand scheme of things?

I would be really disapointed if they are only pawns to the Architect or Corypheus; something that you can only get by working with them. The Awakening Expansion has shown that they are very independent, quite capable of operating outside the uber Darkspawn's (Architect. Arch Demon, and possibly Corypheus) influence. I would like to see them as their own character rather than the narrative only being about Corypheus/the Architect's plans.

TL;DR: Let me fight against Corypheus/the Architect, but recruit Awakened help.

Modifié par Vortex13, 28 août 2013 - 01:23 .

[azarhal]

ThreeGemSheepy wrote...

Corypheus is a blood mage and a magister.

You know for a supposed "blood mage" he used very little of it. All his attack in Legacy were based on the primal school (aka elemental based).

[PantheraOnca]

After playing it through twice (to see each warden's side), I ended up choosing Larius for my personal cannon. This was to hopefully limit Cory's magical potential by not giving him a mage-body to inhabit.

[In Exile]

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

I highly doubt he's anywhere near as powerful as an Archdemon. Hawke stopped him with just his/her own little crew. While every single Archdemon needed an entire army made up of Grey Wardens and either several nations and or group of people (ex: The Dalish and The Circle). Also his control of the Darkspawn seemed alot more sloppy while an Archdemon controls the entire Darkspawn populous and makes them pretty well organized. Though he is able to affect Grey Wardens with his mock call and if he really did jump into a Wardens body, which is heavily hinted that he did, then that's two things that The Archdemon can't do. Which is pretty impressive.

That's not true at all. The archdemon was killed by the same four person party that Hawkers had. Sure, the Warden had a bunch of meat shields, tu that was because of the number of darkspawn he controlled.  I think people are right that the archdemon clearly controlled larger numbers, but I wouldn't say it took a lot to physically kill the archdemon. Someone just had to run interference. 

[Vortex13]

azarhal wrote...

ThreeGemSheepy wrote...

Corypheus is a blood mage and a magister.

You know for a supposed "blood mage" he used very little of it. All his attack in Legacy were based on the primal school (aka elemental based).

Blood Magic isn't just for mind controling spells though. The major advantage of the Blood School is that it does not require the Fade/Mana to function. The caster uses blood (theirs or someone else's) in place of mana; casting primal spells, or creation spells, or any other kind of spell can be accomplished through this.

Also the Taint, is a (I would call it) highly evolved form of Blood Magic; it doesn't require the sacrifice of lifeblood to function, though it does operate through the Taint. So Corypheus using primal magic and being a Blood Mage, and a Darkspawn is not that far fetched.

Modifié par Vortex13, 28 août 2013 - 03:29 .

[cjones91]

In Exile wrote...

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

I highly doubt he's anywhere near as powerful as an Archdemon. Hawke stopped him with just his/her own little crew. While every single Archdemon needed an entire army made up of Grey Wardens and either several nations and or group of people (ex: The Dalish and The Circle). Also his control of the Darkspawn seemed alot more sloppy while an Archdemon controls the entire Darkspawn populous and makes them pretty well organized. Though he is able to affect Grey Wardens with his mock call and if he really did jump into a Wardens body, which is heavily hinted that he did, then that's two things that The Archdemon can't do. Which is pretty impressive.

That's not true at all. The archdemon was killed by the same four person party that Hawkers had. Sure, the Warden had a bunch of meat shields, tu that was because of the number of darkspawn he controlled.  I think people are right that the archdemon clearly controlled larger numbers, but I wouldn't say it took a lot to physically kill the archdemon. Someone just had to run interference. 

It's quite possible the Warden had more than four companions with them since Wynne in Asunder talked about fighting the Archdemon with the Warden which means she was there at Fort Drakon.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

cjones91 wrote...

In Exile wrote...

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

I highly doubt he's anywhere near as powerful as an Archdemon. Hawke stopped him with just his/her own little crew. While every single Archdemon needed an entire army made up of Grey Wardens and either several nations and or group of people (ex: The Dalish and The Circle). Also his control of the Darkspawn seemed alot more sloppy while an Archdemon controls the entire Darkspawn populous and makes them pretty well organized. Though he is able to affect Grey Wardens with his mock call and if he really did jump into a Wardens body, which is heavily hinted that he did, then that's two things that The Archdemon can't do. Which is pretty impressive.

That's not true at all. The archdemon was killed by the same four person party that Hawkers had. Sure, the Warden had a bunch of meat shields, tu that was because of the number of darkspawn he controlled.  I think people are right that the archdemon clearly controlled larger numbers, but I wouldn't say it took a lot to physically kill the archdemon. Someone just had to run interference. 

It's quite possible the Warden had more than four companions with them since Wynne in Asunder talked about fighting the Archdemon with the Warden which means she was there at Fort Drakon.

David Gaider said the books follow their own canon and can be different than the players.

Though, I do think an Archdemon is still way stronger than Corypheus.

[Jaulen]

Re: the idea that untainted mages were used to imprision Corpheus...

I thought that's what Larius mention of that while going through the prision....that's why Hawke's father was chosen to reinforce the wards, "A mage untainted by the darkspawn corruption.' 

And one of the lines that Corphy says about the city was that 'they were promised a golden city, but it was black....'

I really hope that Corphy and the Architect story bits aren't dropped.

Modifié par Jaulen, 28 août 2013 - 04:21 .

[Jaulen]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...
[/i]

caradoc2000 wrote...

Corypheus is dead. The only jumping being done is some forumites jumping to weird conclusions.

No one is jumping to conclusions there. It was heavily implied that Corypheus possessed the Grey Warden. It wasn't even subtle.

Can someone explain this to me please? Because I can see no hint whatsoever of that happening in the events after the fight with Corypheus.

As I see it, everything is best explained by assuming that Corypheus is dead.

And it doesn't strike you as odd that as Corypheus dies, the surviving Grey Warden screams and collapses, and then says the exact same lines about "thank you for freeing me," followed by the exact same villainous smile as Hawke walks away? It's almost as if... Hawke is talking to the same person, regardless of which Warden he helps...?  

To me, it is blatant and obvious insinuation. I'd be very surprised if it wasn't intended to at least make players THINK it had happened.

It's neither blatant nor obvious to me, even after you point it out. I never saw a "villainous" smile and the lines the Wardens speak - if they're indeed identical - are generic lines easily explained by the writers' reluctance to write more unique lines than necessary. Also, you only notice this if you play the sequence twice - and even then... I never did even I did play it twice because it was in two games far apart. Any hint with meaning would be noticeable in one game.

No, Corypheus is dead. I'd be extremely surprised if he was ever intended to survive. If it turns out he did, I'll be convinced the writers retconned it to make a fan theory true.

O.o

I think it's rather blatanty hinted that Corphy survives....especially if you take sides with the Warden Commander.

His face animation changes, how he holds his body changes, as does his voice and how he talks....Hawke even comments on it.

ziloe wrote...

What? Since when did Corphyeus jump bodies? There was no hint of that whatsoever.

go play it again, this time pay attention to the warden it the background.


^ Gotta agree with that. it's pay attention time.

Modifié par Jaulen, 28 août 2013 - 04:22 .

[PantheraOnca]

cjones91 wrote...


It's quite possible the Warden had more than four companions with them since Wynne in Asunder talked about fighting the Archdemon with the Warden which means she was there at Fort Drakon.

I think it's kind of understood that the fight that the PC has with the AD at the end of DA:O isn't strictly EXACTLY what the fight was like that killed the AD. Don't get me wrong - it's pretty close, but there's also the separation between gameplay and lore to account for. Just because it took you (kind of a royal 'you' here) 15 hits vs someone else taking 20 hits to take down the AD in the gameplay encounter doesn't mean it tooke 15,17.5, 20, or some other number of hits to take down the AD in the lore encounter. Depending on how long the fight takes some NPCs can show up as well in the gameplay fight - more of less NPCs may have directly contributed in the lore version of that fight as well.

TLDR: Some fuzziness on the exact details of the last fight in DA:O (or other combat encounters in that game, subsequent games, and DLC) is to be expected.

[The Six Path of Pain]

In Exile wrote...

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

I highly doubt he's anywhere near as powerful as an Archdemon. Hawke stopped him with just his/her own little crew. While every single Archdemon needed an entire army made up of Grey Wardens and either several nations and or group of people (ex: The Dalish and The Circle). Also his control of the Darkspawn seemed alot more sloppy while an Archdemon controls the entire Darkspawn populous and makes them pretty well organized. Though he is able to affect Grey Wardens with his mock call and if he really did jump into a Wardens body, which is heavily hinted that he did, then that's two things that The Archdemon can't do. Which is pretty impressive.

That's not true at all. The archdemon was killed by the same four person party that Hawkers had. Sure, the Warden had a bunch of meat shields, tu that was because of the number of darkspawn he controlled.  I think people are right that the archdemon clearly controlled larger numbers, but I wouldn't say it took a lot to physically kill the archdemon. Someone just had to run interference. 

Considering that you could call on the armies to help you in battle, and the fact that depending on who you sided with key figures also help you in the battle. (Ex:Eamon,Kardol,Swiftrunner,Zathrian etc.) I can pretty much guarantee that it took way more than four people to take down The Archdemon.

[thats1evildude]

Assuming that, for the sake of argument that Corypheus did survive, the simplest answer is that it wasn't the same kind of transfer that the Archdemon pulls off.

We know he was a Tevinter magister, schooled in powerful magicks. Maybe that body surfing trick has nothing to do with the darkspawn taint, but is simply a spell he knew to avoid death.

Also, when the Archdemon dies and takes over the closest darkspawn, it completely re-makes that vessel into its image and rises again. There was no transformation here. The fight ends. There's an odd turn of phrase by Janeka/Larius, but no other indication that Corypheus is in control.

Perhaps he didn't transfer his entire soul or consciousness to Janeka/Larius, but only a piece of it. Janeka/Larius might still be in control of their body without realizing that they're being influenced by a fragment of Corypheus' consciousness.

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

I can pretty much guarantee that it took way more than four people to take down The Archdemon.

I didn't call on any troops to battle the Archdemon. I fought that battle with just my Warden, Alistair, Leliana and Morrigan. And since I'm on the XBox 360, I didn't get help from any other NPCs - Arl Eamon, Kardol, Irving and Swiftrunner don't show up.

But he was still wounded by Riordan beforehand, so your statement is somewhat true.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 29 août 2013 - 05:50 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Assuming that, for the sake of argument that Corypheus did survive, the simplest answer is that it wasn't the same kind of transfer that the Archdemon pulls off.

We know he was a Tevinter magister, schooled in powerful magicks. Maybe that body surfing trick has nothing to do with the darkspawn taint, but is simply a spell he knew to avoid death.

Also, when the Archdemon dies and takes over the closest darkspawn, it completely re-makes that vessel into its image and rises again. There was no transformation here. The fight ends. There's an odd turn of phrase by Janeka/Larius, but no other indication that Corypheus is in control.

Perhaps he didn't transfer his entire soul or consciousness to Janeka/Larius, but only a piece of it. Janeka/Larius might still be in control of their body without realizing that they're being influenced by a fragment of Corypheus' consciousness.

I think it's entirely possible that Corypheus' human nature may be at play.

A dragon will fight you. To the death. Especially an immortal dragon. It doesn't have the same human perceptions or concerns.

Corypheus is, at his core, a human. He just lost a fight and, if he transferred his soul to a nearby Warden to survive, realizes that might not be an option again. So he does not change his form, but rather uses guile to make his escape.

I don't want to say that an Archdemon is too dumb to know when to make a getaway... but a human, especially a human that is allegedly not an old god, would be much less likely to transform a new host, attracting the attention of those nearby who just got done killing his last incarnation.

That's my take on it, at least.

[septembervirgin]

Janica did seem to have a villainous smile but I think it might be due to reasons other than possession (although I might be wrong). Janica probably intended for Corypheus to perish. As to why, I am uncertain. Perhaps to hide the secrets of the Blight's origins forever? Who knows.