163 réponses à ce sujet

[Daerog]

Or perhaps whatever happened to Corypheus and the other magisters changed them wholly and completely where they are fully blight, or at least as full as any being can be (like the usual darkspawn). They become so bound to the blight that they are the blight and the blight is them.

I like the theory that the Architect is a reborn ancient magister as Corypheus is an ancient magister, and the Architect was just killed at one point and didn't jump to another body, so his spirit went into the blight instead of the Fade and was reborn without memories.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I should mention that the taint is actually much more potent in Archdemons than in darkspawn. That's why Grey Wardens prefer to use a drop of Archdemon blood in the Joining, it's much more concentrated apparently.

[Spectre slayer]

It's fairly obvious that they were hinting at Corypheus being still alive after possessing one of the wardens whoever you sided with they fall down and convulse, their speech patterns and mannerisms change to what his were like, they both say odd statements and smile creepily.

Also did anyone else noticed after you take the final blow before or after you pick up the amulet you hear him say a bunch gibberish then he starts laughing.

Modifié par Spectre slayer, 31 août 2013 - 03:46 .

[Daerog]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

I should mention that the taint is actually much more potent in Archdemons than in darkspawn. That's why Grey Wardens prefer to use a drop of Archdemon blood in the Joining, it's much more concentrated apparently.

I wonder if it is due to the dragon blood, if they are really dragons... or at least have dragon blood.

Dragon blood is some crazy stuff.

[septembervirgin]

I've thought about it and now it does seem possible that Janeka was referring to the Calling when she said she was going to take a long walk. It is also possible that she is possessed by Corypheus, given that Rhatigan and his men (dwarves, I mean) were possessed. However this does not convince me that Corypheus was anything to a spirit besides an interesting character to play -- he was an abomination, little else, and because we're talking about a Fade monster (a demon) we're bound to reject both proof that the magister was a magister (the amulet) and that darkspawn's claims.  Of course it could be true that he was a magister anyway.

An amulet could have been fetched by a spirit experienced with Thedas. The more a spirit experiences the world, the more corrupt it becomes, like elves with humans, like anyone with darkspawn or raw lyrium. In Dragon Age, interaction corrupts, even interaction with ideas if we see the progression of the Andraste myth as an example of a idea corrupting over time. These corruptions could be viewed neutrally as change but these changes cause discomfort and even death to those intimate with the elements that are changing. One message of Dragon Age is that change and interaction can be harmful unless we are prepared for the change and interaction.

This intersects with the OP in that Corypheus represents a new idea: a magister survived and might provide new ideas as to the myth of Andraste. These new ideas could cause death and strong discomfort to those who encounter, are influenced by, and who spread the ideas. I dare say others could be caused discomfort upon hearing something new and death needn't be only caused the prophets of the New Idea, but also to those who resist too strongly (with violence).

Of course Corypheus was slain: this served the purpose of concealing the history of the darkspawn, a history which could only shake all Andraste churches to the very core of possibly false teachings. And of course, a spirit could have been asked to animate the corpse, be asked questions about the corpse's memories, and then rewarded with possession of a Warden *as long as the questions could never be asked by another* which means the initial corpse should be seen as slain and all further querants must be told that the magister was dead. Regardless that the magister was dead to begin with, we are left with a dead magister who can answer nothing unless some one is wise (or stupid) enough to call a spirit to possess its body and that spirit decides to agree to a similar promise.

And it might be that it wasn't a magister and that the spirits played the Wardens in a game of Thedas.

Modifié par septembervirgin, 03 septembre 2013 - 04:25 .

[Vicious]

Dumat lives.

[volkoff]

There are some hints (also listed in this thread) that people use to rationalize all kinds of wild conclusions. Personally, I think that if developers want to use a character further, they shouldn't allow me to kill him. That is just bad writing. And it has happened too many times in DA already.

It is - also called Occam's razor.

and you use occams broom to sweep inconvenient facts under the carpet.

dont get me wrong, i dont entirely disagree with you. so far the solid fact is that corypheus is dead.

however, at first they talk about mind control. then near the end ''my gratitude you have, for returning me to myself. i feel like... a whole new person.'' with eerie music coming into play. now generally when some person pauses during eerie music in a movie/game then **** is either about to go down, something bad has happened or they imply something.

not to mention with the other warden you got the ''you sound different'' convo option. after corypheus is gone.

http://youtu.be/H75LLsENX4g?t=8m20s

it is circumstantial evidence at best, but still its more then just a hunch or wild speculation.

it's your right to feel that way about writing. but the thing is; if corypheus really has the power to subvert a person/warden/darkspawn. then you havent really killed him off.  we just arent entirely aware if he does or does not have this ability. it's not bad writing if you'd like a plot twist. and if an demon can take over a person, then why cant some very powerfull old tainted mage? it can easily be part of the lore. if the writers choose it to be part of the lore (if they already havent) i personally think it highly plausible for corypheus to have subverted the warden.

 

[DiscoGhost]

i take anything the chantry says with a grain of salt. they dont "know" anything. 

[Bayonet Hipshot]

IMO, this means it was better to go with Larius. Simply because Janeka is a Warden mage while Larius is a old Warden commander warrior. 

 

I would take Corypheus in an old warrior-ex warden commander Warden body over Corypheus in a mage-in-her-peak- Warden any day. 

 

Old warriors are much easier to kill as opposed to young and powerful mages. 

[Gtdef]

Did you guys learn necromancy from Sauron?

[Miltialdes]

Larius is near a ghoul and when Corripheus is "killed" he reactes like he is a normal warden and for me it is not the case. He is in terminal taint.

 

Definetly, with the smile and the last words he told, it is similair than Corripheus. Larius was confused, hesitant no it is definetly Corripheus in Larius.

 

Dumat promised the power of god to the magister and they have received this power. They are imortal and can possess person like Archidemon. 

 

And when you see the power of Corrypheus in the last battle in Legacy, he is far away than a mage and without catalist like the other mage ( Hawke uses a staff, as other mage) Here he has nothing and it is a long and hard battle

[Navasha]

Honestly, I would have put Cory in a high echelon than even an archdemon myself.    For all the power to start a blight, they still are only a tainted dragon.   Powerful sure, but they are still just dragons that have only had the taint for a brief time when they start a blight.    The darkspawn seek out these elder dragons and taint them to start a blight, but Cory has been tainted for thousands of years. 

 

To me, Cory's jump into a tainted warden was more than blatantly obvious.   It shocks me actually that some people didn't recognize it. 

 

We also don't know exactly if the jumping into a body is identical to how an archdemon might do it.  

[Gervaise]

I'd challenge the assertion that Corypheus can control Grey Wardens generally.   From what I recall of the writings we discovered, he could control Grey Warden mages.   This is why he affects Janeka, who commands the other Wardens, and influences Anders.  It is probably something to do with their connection through the Fade, coupled with the taint.   This is why Larius called on Malcolm Hawke to assist them instead of using one of their own mages.    

 

I believe it was also suggested that he could subtly influence non tainted mages whilst in his dormant state but at a sub-conscious level, probably through the Fade while they are asleep.   This would be simply in keeping with his status as a Magister, probably a dreamer which is what the most powerful Magisters often were.   Some people have speculated it could have been affecting Kirkwall but since the Fade was very thin there anyway, all the weird stuff happening and mages going nuts was probably to do with that.    

 

Darkspawn seemed to be drawn to his location but it is debatable whether he actually controlled them.    What kept them in the prison was the wards that prevented their escape and they seemed to be acting independently of any control.   He certainly didn't summon any to help him in the battle against Hawke.  

 

The soul jump thing is a bit more problematic and may well account for why the Wardens imprisoned him in the first place.    Only they would know.     However, the fact that he was in control of his mind may have something to do with being able to jump safely to another being.   After all Morrigan claimed that is what Flemeth was going to do to her and that the more similar the vessel that she jumped to, the greater the chance of success.    Essentially both beings are human/humanoid with minds and souls of the same type.

 

With an archdemon a crazed soul, not in control of its mental faculties and in the vessel of a dragon, is trying to jump to a soul in control of its faculties and in the body of a human.   This makes the transition subject to failure.    However, when trying to do the same to an immature soul in a foetus, there is guaranteed success.

 

I'm sure Flemeth could explain it far better than me - may be we shall get the chance to ask her one day.

[CoffeeElemental]

This body jumping thing seems to be more widespread than that:

• Archdemons body jump to darkspawns and grey wardens. Soul at the other end seems to be a problem.
• Corypheus jumps to a grey warden to escape. Non-empty vessel - not a problem.
• Flemmeth intended to jump into Morrigan and supposedly did this before. Taint not required, non-empty vessel - also not a problem.
• OGB ritual. Taint required but most likely resulting baby is normal. Day old embryo in this case might be an empty vessel.
• Hypothetical - Andraste might have jumped into Hessarian as he did 180 in his beliefs after driving a sword into her - eerily similar situation to Corypheus.

This suggest to me that this jumping ritual is not a darkspawn thing but high level blood magic and the target must have compatible blood type - tainted/untainted. Why a soul on the target vessel is a problem for archdemons only is unknown.

 

I think this would be more clear if we learn why there are both sentient dragons and normal dragons and who or what exactly is Flemmeth.

[Ieldra]

Corypheus probably isn't dead but I hate how Bioware handeled it

I mean he was really interesting but I don't like how he survives no matter what Hawke does

hopefully they retcon this and he stays dead in Inquisition (like the Architect)

 

Maybe he somehow made the surviving Grey Warden evil so that they can free the other Magisters ?!

I have to say it appears increasingly likely he's survived - as opposed to what I said earlier. I don't actually mind as long as he doesn't turn into the Elder One, that would be disappointing. As for Hawke, this fits with the pattern of Hawke triggering a disaster just by being somewhere. I find this rather funny in fact. It's not as if they could reasonably be blamed for it, so it doesn't reflect badly on them.  

[Mirrman70]

Corypheus probably isn't dead but I hate how Bioware handeled it

I mean he was really interesting but I don't like how he survives no matter what Hawke does

hopefully they retcon this and he stays dead in Inquisition (like the Architect)

 

Maybe he somehow made the surviving Grey Warden evil so that they can free the other Magisters ?!

 

when did they retcon the architect?

[Swaggerjking]

I think Cory is alive but I don't like that he is Tbh I hope he have medium size role in DAi and that were done with him after DaI and I am getting tired of mind control/ Indoctrination I just wan bad guy doing bad things on their own accords or their at least being tricked and having fee will  

[iheartbob]

I can't help but think that by continuing the argument, I'm just feeding the trolls, but anyway ...

 

Anyone even remotely familiar with the concept of foreshadowing in fiction should at the very least be left with a rather unsettling feeling of "something isn't right here" when they finish Legacy. The thematic use of creepy music, change in vocal tones and body language, and the blatant mimicry of a line actually used by Corypheus, "Thank you for freeing me" with the surviving Warden all hint that everything is not as it seems in this moment.

 

You'll also remember that Cassandra asks Varric if there is anything more to his tale, and he says something along the lines of "there is, but it hasn't happened yet."

 

So clearly, we are not done with Corypheus.

 

I am not bothered by the fact that no matter what actions you take with Cory or Flemeth, they both survive. I'm pretty sure that we've been told that DA: II is kind of a bridge between Origins and Inquisition, so if Corypheus should pop up in the next installment, it's kind of nice to have actually played a part in his development. It makes the potential of defeating him all the more personal as a player.

 

I am inclined to believe like many other people here that his ability to transfer bodies is taint related, but we already know from Flemeth that body transference is possible without the taint. So who knows? I found the lore in Legacy to be some of the most intriguing lore in both games so I look forward to learning more about it.

 

And as to the argument of who is more powerful, the archdemon or Corypheus? I have to look at it this way ...

 

If Corypheus did in fact escape in the body of a commanding Grey Warden and nobody knows about it, he has the whole strength of the Wardens at his disposal. Now think about how powerful and influential our own Warden Commander becomes by the end of Origins? I would say physically, the Archdemon is more powerful, but power is not just determined by strength or magic. The Archdemon can influence a horde of darkspawn and in that regard, Corypheus was considerably limited. But masquerading around in an influential humanoid form? His influence could potentially be unlimited if left unchecked.

[Swaggerjking]

I don't see why anyone is mad about flemeth being in Da2 if you killed her because no to kill her before Lothering is destroy 

[Setiweb]

Now you see... the reason Corypheus was locked away. He is worse than an Archdemon - he can TRULY never die. If he is killed, he can be reborn again and again, in darkspawn or Grey Warden, and there is no way to stop it, like there is with an Archdemon. 
 

Sure he can.  Just kill him when there aren't any tainted around for him to jump to.  If Janeka or Larius weren't around at the time that would've been it as long as you didn't have your own warden in your party.  (Imagine if he jumped into Anders.  Justice would get jealous, a fight ensues, Anders explodes.)

 

As for how he can control the mind of others who are tainted... cuz he's the #1 blood mage that we know of so far.

[Daerog]

Meh, my theory on page three from a year ago is right. You'll see, you'll all see!

[Grayvisions]

Ugh, making my head hurt. I hate when writers use body swaps, and all forms of deus ex like it.

 

As much as I love Bioware, they have a bad habit of creating for more loose ends than they can realistically address at later dates. Happened with ME3 and HAS been happening with Dragon Age, and I'm sure it will happen with DAI as well. I could understand this if these sequels kept to a particular vantage point, but each one seems to go in a new direction, with a new cast and new story that, at best, 'hints' at things that happened in the past. 

 

Not cool. Like reading a book series where each one ends on a cliffhanger that's never satisfied.

[X Equestris]

Worth noting that the timeline on DAI's website says that Hawke "attempted" to kill Corypheus.

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

IMO, this means it was better to go with Larius. Simply because Janeka is a Warden mage while Larius is a old Warden commander warrior. 

 

I would take Corypheus in an old warrior-ex warden commander Warden body over Corypheus in a mage-in-her-peak- Warden any day. 

 

Old warriors are much easier to kill as opposed to young and powerful mages. 

 

And what makes you think Corypheus didn't simply switch bodies again at a later date?