420 réponses à ce sujet

[Renmiri1]

n7stormrunner wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

So anyone whose against the over-emphasized importance of a single story mechanic in bioware games and wish for there to be more quality over quantity method with the contect are, according to the thread, homophobic violence fetishist who can't handle emotional content without dudebroing the heck out and have a biased view of video games as being lesser than action movies, because you can't complain about action movies being generic, dull, having tact on love interest, weak plots, etc, for some unknown reason.

And people who desire more close and personal content with their companions and added layer of interaction with them are, according to the thread, sexually depraved sim addicts who need to project themselves into the games and waste money with their creeper ways, because you can't support a fictional story arsc for a character unless it has no impact on anything, or something or other.

This thread is just such a warm and fuzzy den of cooperation and cool headed discussion. Wouldn't you agree?

it is a rather amusing thread isn't it?

What did you expect with the title it has and the original post ?

It is definitely a thread and a post made to show everyone who disagrees with the OP as a perverted deviant. 

I just returned the favor and wished him luck in teaching his own gruesome morals to thousands of gamers he never met.

Gruesome you ask ? Yes because any discussion of content that makes  people feel awkward and bad that simply ignores a beheading, suicide by self eletrocution, a person's face being sown alive to a semi alive body made of body parts and other GRUESOME gory scenes is not serious, adult or "wholesome and pure" like the OP tries to paint himself as.

Want to claim the high moral ground ? How about not ignoring the OTHER adult themes of the game ? Otherwise the hypocrisy gets pretty obvious.


Bad faith begets bad faith, who would have thought ! 

Modifié par Renmiri1, 30 août 2013 - 10:14 .

[Neon Rising Winter]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I would like to put out there though, the notion that there are betters ways to implement romances than a simple formula of 4 conversations, and your set to get lucky in bed as your big reward, with the only needed path being "Comfort, Agree, Flatter" in order to succeed. I'd liked to see more curve balls thrown in the romances, or maybe more of a challenge in romancing someone, than just flatery, and definately a better reward than simply sex wouldn't hurt. DAO had an...okay system, until you introduced bribery. And before you jump on me with that "if you don't like it, don't use it" bull, that's not an option in DAO since you need to use the gift system in order to unlock important quest content with the characters. So no, I can't just not use it, because their "friend" content, and their "romance" content, are tied into the same system of approval and disapproval.

I lack an analogy or example I can point out to how romances should be handled, but I know there has to be a more engaging, worthwhile, and meaningful way to have characters hook up than what we have now, and there should be examination of the social interaction system, instead of just "More romance options".

That's my spiel for the evening. Goodnight folks.

For me at this point you are wandering into overdoing the romance territory. The friendship content, as you point out, is fairly intrinsic and unlocks content, stat improvements, items etc. With the romances being tagged onto that, the actual romance specific content is what? Maybe 10 minutes of cutscenes and a few spoken lines? That's nice, adds a bit of flavour, adds a bit of fun, but if I don't do it I don't feel like I'm excluded from much.

I'm afraid I'm going to bring up the if you don't like it, don't use it argument that you dislike, but I really don't like a lot of the romances, so I don't use them, and as it stands I don't miss out much. I don't want it changed so I find myself missing out on a more significant aspect of the game because there's lots of engaging and meaningful and romance specific content. I'd like to keep that for the friendship path where I still stand a good chance of seeing it.

Modifié par Narrow Margin, 30 août 2013 - 10:45 .

[Applepie_Svk]

if it´s done well, why not ? But not in the way of fanservice like it was done with Citadel DLC or also Mark of the Assasins...

[Bugsie]

Darth Brotarian wrote...
I would like to put out there though, the notion that there are betters ways to implement romances than a simple formula of 4 conversations, and your set to get lucky in bed as your big reward, with the only needed path being "Comfort, Agree, Flatter" in order to succeed. I'd liked to see more curve balls thrown in the romances, or maybe more of a challenge in romancing someone, than just flatery, and definately a better reward than simply sex wouldn't hurt. DAO had an...okay system, until you introduced bribery. And before you jump on me with that "if you don't like it, don't use it" bull, that's not an option in DAO since you need to use the gift system in order to unlock important quest content with the characters. So no, I can't just not use it, because their "friend" content, and their "romance" content, are tied into the same system of approval and disapproval.
I lack an analogy or example I can point out to how romances should be handled, but I know there has to be a more engaging, worthwhile, and meaningful way to have characters hook up than what we have now, and there should be examination of the social interaction system, instead of just "More romance options". 
That's my spiel for the evening. Goodnight folks.

Please do elaborate, are there other games where romance is handled this deeply at all?  I haven't played many games like ME or DA, but I found it pretty easy to avoid romances completely, without too much effort.  I didn't even have romances for the first 2 playthroughs I did for DAO or ME1.  
It's been a while since I played DAO, but what quests/content are you locked out of if you don't give gifts?  Because for ME if you don't do the romance the only content you miss out on is pertaining to the romance and I don't recall being locked out of any non-romance content for DA2.

[AlanC9]

Buggirl70 wrote...

It's been a while since I played DAO, but what quests/content are you locked out of if you don't give gifts?  Because for ME if you don't do the romance the only content you miss out on is pertaining to the romance and I don't recall being locked out of any non-romance content for DA2.

Several of the personal quests require a certain approval level to unlock. Sten's sword and Marjolaine come to mind. I don't think gifts are strictly required to get those approvals, but without the gift mechanism you'd have to do a bunch of metagaming with your party makeup and actions

[Cainhurst Crow]

Not to mention flemeths book being a gift instead of a quest item.

And that if you don't raise zevrans friendship score, you need to kill him I believe.

[macrocarl]

caradoc2000 wrote...

I want a Carbon Dating minigame in DAI, if you can correctly estimate an object's age within 1000 years, you win.

Oh man, that would be so HAWT!

[Ryzaki]

Filament wrote...

Sure, I'm pretty sure there are plenty of dating games that don't involve sex. We can still have a bioware dating game without the sex. Makeitso.jpg

Yep plenty of them have no sex.

[Bugsie]

AlanC9 wrote...

Several of the personal quests require a certain approval level to unlock. Sten's sword and Marjolaine come to mind. I don't think gifts are strictly required to get those approvals, but without the gift mechanism you'd have to do a bunch of metagaming with your party makeup and actions

That's friendship specific content as well, you don't have to do the romances for that. Marjolaines vendetta quest becomes available in the Leilianas song DLC irrespective of whether you had the conversation with her in DAO. And the real grimoire quest is available given high enough approval. Granted likely easier with the gift system, but in this instance I remember getting the quest to trigger before I had a chance to give it to her.

And really, who wouldn't help Sten out...

I don't understand what's really going on here, are people complaining about the romance/friendship content and the benefits therin and being denied that because they're not doing the romance/friendship? Because that sort of what it looks like. Wanting content irrespective of how it's been developed to occur in game seems IMHO... daft. Gaining approval for companions to comply with what you ask, appears a quite reasonable game mechanic to me. I'm assuming it switched to a slightly modified system under DA2, because people don't necessarily want to be nice to certain companions to get what they want from them.

Asking for more nuanced romantic entanglements, for those who want them, seems a reasonable request.

[Cainhurst Crow]

It's the bribery system being tied into the friendship/romance system that's the problem and makes the romances feel cheap. Than requireing you to use the bribery system in order to give key characters important quest related items, which makes it worse. If they had keep those kinds of things seperate from normal inventory modes, than it would have been better. As it stands, it does not.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 30 août 2013 - 10:16 .

[Neon Rising Winter]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

It's the bribery system being tied into the friendship/romance system that's the problem and makes the romances feel cheap. Than requireing you to use the bribery system in order to give key characters important quest related items, which makes it worse. If they had keep those kinds of things seperate from normal inventory modes, than it would have been better. As it stands, it does not.

So more like DA2 then? I mean you gave specific characters things that were obviously intended for them, but I don't recall the same use of more generic gifts as a 'Get out of dislike free' card as occurred in the first game.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Narrow Margin wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

It's the bribery system being tied into the friendship/romance system that's the problem and makes the romances feel cheap. Than requireing you to use the bribery system in order to give key characters important quest related items, which makes it worse. If they had keep those kinds of things seperate from normal inventory modes, than it would have been better. As it stands, it does not.

So more like DA2 then? I mean you gave specific characters things that were obviously intended for them, but I don't recall the same use of more generic gifts as a 'Get out of dislike free' card as occurred in the first game.

DA2 has it's own set of problems which had little to do with DAO's problems. While DAO's problem was the fact that gifts could get you out of consequences and land your blood mage child killing loghain loving butt in bed with alistar as long as you gave him enough cake, or vice versa with you maker loving templar hugging mage hating ignoramus in bed with morrigan. DA2's problem was that you could still romance someone even if they hated your guts. Rivalry didn't mean much, since if you got it high enough you could break your companions brains and get the same content as a high frienship. Now, don't get me wrong, this in my opinion is better than DAO's system, but it's the same type of better as a cracked windshield is better than a flat tire, it's true but it's still not good.

I'd like a romance to be based on multiple factors, such as character action, personality, and all that. Basically, make dragon age 2's system, but remove rivalry from being able to lead to romancing your rival in most scenarios, and have specific event checks for which your characters opinion on you will be shaped. If you have a mage character, you shouldn't be able to go on a rant about how tranquilling is good and magic is an abomination, and still romance them. If ridiculous stuff like that was gone, than romances would garuntee be better quality, becuase they would feel much more earned than given on a silver plate.

[Angrywolves]

Zevran will leave with Talisen if you don't get him above a certain level or so I've been told.
Never seen it as I always max out his apprval.

Romances will be based on a nuanced approach .
There are several online articles about it.
Sweeping decisions your Inquisitor makes will have a major effect on whether you can romance someone.
Approval won't be the determining factor.
shrugs.
Should make romances much harder to achieve .

[Renmiri1]

Darth Brotarian wrote...
.... Basically, make dragon age 2's system, but remove rivalry from being able to lead to romancing your rival in most scenarios, and have specific event checks for which your characters opinion on you will be shaped. If you have a mage character, you shouldn't be able to go on a rant about how tranquilling is good and magic is an abomination, and still romance them. If ridiculous stuff like that was gone, than romances would garuntee be better quality, becuase they would feel much more earned than given on a silver plate.

I think you are going to be happy with DAI then, it seems this is a lot similar to what they are doing: DA2 system but no rivalry romance, rep based on events, not words, etc...

[Bionuts]

Renmiri1 wrote...

What did you expect with the title it has and the original post ?

It is definitely a thread and a post made to show everyone who disagrees with the OP as a perverted deviant. 

I just returned the favor and wished him luck in teaching his own gruesome morals to thousands of gamers he never met.

Gruesome you ask ? Yes because any discussion of content that makes  people feel awkward and bad that simply ignores a beheading, suicide by self eletrocution, a person's face being sown alive to a semi alive body made of body parts and other GRUESOME gory scenes is not serious, adult or "wholesome and pure" like the OP tries to paint himself as.

Want to claim the high moral ground ? How about not ignoring the OTHER adult themes of the game ? Otherwise the hypocrisy gets pretty obvious.


Bad faith begets bad faith, who would have thought ! 

Read my posts in this thread. And I never claimed some "moral highground". Whatever that means, I'm not a good person.

Instead of ranting for the sake of ranting, actually read the damn thread. If you did, you would have read that I enjoy romances in the game, and I don't mind nudity.

Stop arguing with yourself.

[Renmiri1]

^
Points to thread title


You many have posted some nice balanced posts but the 3 posts below and the thread title made me see you as a "hollier than thou" person worried about pushing his morals to others, while not looking at his own backyard.

To summarize another long post of mine in this thread, to say the idea that people are enjoying romance makes you feel awkward  is very bad faith. And puts into doubt what kind of person you are when a beheading and stitching people's faces while they are alive to marry them does not make you feel the need to post something about feeling awkward. But the romance in DA does.  

Bionuts wrote...

I don't mind nudity, but getting horny playing video games is very, very, awkward.

Bionuts wrote...

I understand wanting romance in the game, but there does come a point when all of these requests for one night stands, sexual scenes, huggy wuggy, kissing, etc., can be a bit much.

I don't ever want Bioware to be some front for people wanting to "free" themselves from imaginary bonds.

Bionuts wrote...


I think most people are cowards, so titles like "real man" mean little when the person is a coward.

Cowards are too afraid to do what they want. Their lives are predictable, as they're only capable of doing what people give them permission to do. Most people, but waaah! Whatever.

I should also add  that if people do want pr0n  to "free" themselves from imaginary bonds  while playing a game there is an entire section of the Skyrim Nexus forum for them. Skyrim doesn't have romance or dating, just wham bam... put a Mara necklace .. and ty ma'm. With a vibrating controller to boot. At least that is what I heard from some teenage friends. 

So anyone who is expecting.. to "free" themselves from imaginary bonds .. from playing DA is doing it wrong.

Modifié par Renmiri1, 31 août 2013 - 07:31 .

[Parmida]

 ^ LOLz! 

[Bionuts]

Stating that I feel awkward getting horny playing video games has nothing to do with morals.

And the 3rd post you quoted was me addressing a poster who was degrading another poster.

[AlanC9]

Buggirl70 wrote...
That's friendship specific content as well, you don't have to do the romances for that. Marjolaines vendetta quest becomes available in the Leilianas song DLC irrespective of whether you had the conversation with her in DAO. And the real grimoire quest is available given high enough approval. Granted likely easier with the gift system, but in this instance I remember getting the quest to trigger before I had a chance to give it to her.

And really, who wouldn't help Sten out...

What you asked was "It's been a while since I played DAO, but what quests/content are you locked out of if you don't give gifts?," not whether the content was romance-specific. But now that I think about it, this only applies to Sten, since you can get everyone else's approval high enbough without gifts. Sten too, but only if you keep him in the party all the time to hit all his dialogue unlocks.

[Chari]

Hmm, no dating sim but I'd not mind to have at least a flirt option with every companion. And of course them being all "Nope, donotwant" if needed

[Angrywolves]

For some reason players seem intent on arguing about their sexual philosophies today.

[Chari]

Angrywolves wrote...

For some reason players seem intent on arguing about their sexual philosophies today.

It's mating season, dude People need to discharge XD

[mupp3tz]

Chari wrote...

Hmm, no dating sim but I'd not mind to have at least a flirt option with every companion. And of course them being all "Nope, donotwant" if needed

Yes hahah. My Hawke flirted with Aveline at every possibly opportunity to no avail. It's always nice to getting a bit of humble pie having your PC shot down... or, in that case, just flat out ignored. 

[Chari]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

Chari wrote...

Hmm, no dating sim but I'd not mind to have at least a flirt option with every companion. And of course them being all "Nope, donotwant" if needed

Yes hahah. My Hawke flirted with Aveline at every possibly opportunity to no avail. It's always nice to getting a bit of humble pie having your PC shot down... or, in that case, just flat out ignored. 

It's just so much fun Besides, it's ind of refreshing seeing that not all characters bend to the Player's will
Poor Hawke, the lady is too good for him/her XD