244 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria Caliban]

CrustyBot wrote...

I can just imagine David throwing his PC/console out the window after playing the first few minutes of Nar Shaddaa in KotOR 2 and getting lectured by Kreia. Hahah.

The beggar getting beat up by other people for money didn't make much sense. If they see you giving away money, why not beg from the PC? Or pickpocket the PC? Or attack the PC?

Instead they beat a man for 2 credits while someone with 20,000 credits is just wandering around the marketplace.

[spirosz]

Maria Caliban wrote...

CrustyBot wrote...

I can just imagine David throwing his PC/console out the window after playing the first few minutes of Nar Shaddaa in KotOR 2 and getting lectured by Kreia. Hahah.

The beggar getting beat up by other people for money didn't make much sense. If they see you giving away money, why not beg from the PC? Or pickpocket the PC? Or attack the PC?

Instead they beat a man for 2 credits while someone with 20,000 credits is just wandering around the marketplace.

Because it's an easy score.  Unless you dressed your 'Avatar' nude, he/she would seem likely to make quick work of a beggar. 

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Maria Caliban wrote...

CrustyBot wrote...

I can just imagine David throwing his PC/console out the window after playing the first few minutes of Nar Shaddaa in KotOR 2 and getting lectured by Kreia. Hahah.

The beggar getting beat up by other people for money didn't make much sense. If they see you giving away money, why not beg from the PC? Or pickpocket the PC? Or attack the PC?

Instead they beat a man for 2 credits while someone with 20,000 credits is just wandering around the marketplace.

Which is why it would have David flip his sh*t. It was essentially an excuse for Kreia to lecture the PC. She still lectures the Exile regardless of how (s)he acts. Also, as spirosz mentions, lone beggar vs heavily armed party. Which one is the easier target?

Modifié par CrustyBot, 28 août 2013 - 01:32 .

[Bionuts]

As an elf, I don't give 2 craps about Redcliffe Village. My character only saves the village because of Arl Eamon and to get support against the Darkspawn.

My elf doesn't care about humans, but she sure as hell doesn't want her family to get eaten by Darkspawn.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

AresKeith wrote...

That's a risk I would want Bioware to take

Even BioWare's masterpiece, BG 2, was light on the reactivity I am thinking about. This may be a controversial opinion, but I believe that Origins had the best reactivity or C&C paradigm of any BioWare game.

In any case, EA holds the pursestrings. But we'll see what eventuates from DA:I.

I still think that the C&C paradigm of a game like Alpha Protocol is as good as it will get with regards to cinematic choices. A bigger budget would've made it less buggy, and the gameplay/AI/level design not-crap, but implementing even more complex branches and reactivity would not be as easy IMO.

[David7204]

That would certainly cause me to dislike Kreia. But there's a very great difference between a character condemning you and the narrative condemning you.

[Volus Warlord]

David7204 wrote...

Whatever your final long term motive may be, your immediate motive is to save the village. And that motive is satisfied regardless. I have no idea where you've gotten this nonsense that wanting to save the village for selfish reasons should lead to failure. That's not true at all.

I got the notion from you.  What is true then?  Rewarding of selfish ambition?

[Maria Caliban]

spirosz wrote...

Because it's an easy score.  Unless you dressed your 'Avatar' nude, he/she would seem likely to make quick work of a beggar. 

It's an easy score to ask the PC for money as well.

DA:O handled this in a far more believable fashion. You gave someone a gold coin and suddenly half a dozen people were crowding around you asking for a hand out.

[David7204]

Volus Warlord wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Whatever your final long term motive may be, your immediate motive is to save the village. And that motive is satisfied regardless. I have no idea where you've gotten this nonsense that wanting to save the village for selfish reasons should lead to failure. That's not true at all.

I got the notion from you.  What is true then?  Rewarding of selfish ambition?

Right. Not sure if you read the rest of the post, but I added to it.

[spirosz]

Maria Caliban wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Because it's an easy score.  Unless you dressed your 'Avatar' nude, he/she would seem likely to make quick work of a beggar. 

It's an easy score to ask the PC for money as well.

DA:O handled this in a far more believable fashion. You gave someone a gold coin and suddenly half a dozen people were crowding around you asking for a hand out.

Mind you, this is different setting.  Nar Shadda... is more, corrupt, per say.  Growing up or being in a position those folks were in are different that one scen in Origins, IMO.  But I understand you're point, I disagree.  

[Volus Warlord]

David7204 wrote...
If there's been foreshadowing that saving the village will lead to some sort of reward, then yes, that should be satisfied for selfish players by rewarding them. If there hasn't been foreshadowing, I have no idea why you chose to save the village in the first place. 

Easy. Speculation. The basis of all favors.

You've never done something for a reward that wasn't immediately obvious?

Modifié par Volus Warlord, 28 août 2013 - 01:44 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Volus Warlord wrote...

David7204 wrote...
If there's been foreshadowing that saving the village will lead to some sort of reward, then yes, that should be satisfied for selfish players by rewarding them. If there hasn't been foreshadowing, I have no idea why you chose to save the village in the first place. 

Easy. Speculation. The basis of all favors.

You've never done something for a reward that wasn't immediately obvious?

That would require thinking. Davey hates thinking.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Davey are you ever going to get around to playing DA?

[The Night Mammoth]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

David7204 wrote...
If there's been foreshadowing that saving the village will lead to some sort of reward, then yes, that should be satisfied for selfish players by rewarding them. If there hasn't been foreshadowing, I have no idea why you chose to save the village in the first place. 

Easy. Speculation. The basis of all favors.

You've never done something for a reward that wasn't immediately obvious?

That would require thinking. Davey hates thinking.

Doing something for a reward doesn't seem all that heroic. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 28 août 2013 - 01:53 .

[David7204]

If there's no foreshadowing, there's no foreshadowing. If you expect a consequence from an action, then by definition, either some kind of foreshadowing exists, intentional or unintentional, or you're doing something wrong.

Modifié par David7204, 28 août 2013 - 01:53 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

David7204 wrote...
If there's been foreshadowing that saving the village will lead to some sort of reward, then yes, that should be satisfied for selfish players by rewarding them. If there hasn't been foreshadowing, I have no idea why you chose to save the village in the first place. 

Easy. Speculation. The basis of all favors.

You've never done something for a reward that wasn't immediately obvious?

That would require thinking. Davey hates thinking.

Doing something for a reward doesn't seem all that heroic. 

No no no! See in this instance Davey is using his HEROISM to save the village so the princess will join him with her virtually nonexistant attire strong CHARACTERIZATION.

[Steelcan]

Has David seen his commandments?

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Steelcan wrote...

Has David seen his commandments?

The messiah chooses to ignore them.

For we are but worms compared to his mighty heroism!

[Volus Warlord]

David7204 wrote...

If there's no foreshadowing, there's no foreshadowing. If you expect a consequence from an action, then by definition, either some kind of foreshadowing exists, intentional or unintentional, or you're doing something wrong.

Foreshadowing? Who says there has to be foreshadowing?

I see a village under attack. What evidence is there of potential reward? NONE. No foreshadowing to be had.

However, my intuition says there may be positive repercussions for helping them out.  I speculate that my good deeds will be repaid.

Also, if there is no foreshadowing for major events, the narrative is doing things wrong, not me. 

[The Night Mammoth]

David7204 wrote...

If there's no foreshadowing, there's no foreshadowing. If you expect a consequence from an action, then by definition, either some kind of foreshadowing exists, intentional or unintentional, or you're doing something wrong.

Or it's a game, therefore it's a given that consequences occur from actions, because that's just how games work the majority of the time. Foreshadowing is unnecessary. 

I even remember the village scenario occuring in Red Dead Redemption at one point (good game by the way, 'good' guy dies regardless of what happens), where I saved a village from raiders, or zombies, and got nothing, and was a little confused. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 28 août 2013 - 02:07 .

[Steelcan]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Has David seen his commandments?

The messiah chooses to ignore them.

For we are but worms compared to his mighty heroism!

"WE ARE BUT MAGGOTS, WRITHING IN THE FILTH OF OUR OWN UNHEROISM"

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Steelcan wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Has David seen his commandments?

The messiah chooses to ignore them.

For we are but worms compared to his mighty heroism!

"WE ARE BUT MAGGOTS, WRITHING IN THE FILTH OF OUR OWN UNHEROISM"

https://encrypted-tb...vSDi1sbVtEGkd6w

[David7204]

I don't know what to tell you. It sounds to me like you expect every or at least the majority of 'good' actions in video games to have some kind of material, 'selfish' reward. You expect it to the degree that foreshadowing is apparently unneeded, depending on how we define 'foreshadowing.' Let's not get into that.

I have no idea where this belief comes from, but it's certainly a long way from true. If anything, taking the 'good' choice in games often means giving up a 'selfish' reward.

Modifié par David7204, 28 août 2013 - 02:13 .