244 réponses à ce sujet

[Bionuts]

You should play DA, David. Lots of naked women throwing themselves at the Warden.

[Volus Warlord]

David7204 wrote...

I don't know what to tell you. It sounds to me like you expect every or at least the majority of 'good' actions in video games to have some kind of material, 'selfish' reward. You expect it to the degree that foreshadowing is apparently unneeded, depending on how we define 'foreshadowing.' Let's not get into that.

I have no idea where this belief comes from, but it's certainly a long way from true. If anything, taking the 'good' choice in games often means giving up a 'selfish' reward.

Naive. Laughably naive. 

I do not expect all "good" actions to have rewards, but I do use my intuition to judge which "good" actions are worth my effort. Rarely with any foreshadowing, unless you count intuition as foreshadowing. That'd be a stretch.

What are you, a monk?  People want their selfish rewards. For instance, if a dev came forth and said in the next ME being a paragon meant having no romance options, people would go bezerk.  Is that your perception of "good?" Having no indulgences? 

Or in terms of the larger picture: Why serve a cause that degrades you, mistreats you, takes you for granted, in the name of the common "good?" Regardless of the nobility of the cause, most would desert or become corrupt. Devotion and loyalty gone unrewarded is devotion and loyalty on its deathbed. 

So their must be some selfish rewards. Otherwise there would be no motive to be "good" and stay "good".

[David7204]

That really depends on how you define 'selfish.' Like Rand would, or like most people would? If you're defining selfishness as Rand would, then 'good' outcomes absolutely need to lead to selfish rewards, yes. If you're defining it like most people would, then no, they absolutely don't need to at all.

I have no idea where in hell you're getting these ideas of 'naivety' in my post. Because there's no opinions at all in it. It's just me commenting on information. You apparently expect 'good' choices to lead to selfish rewards. Taking the 'good' choice in games often means giving up a 'selfish' reward. Is that all not perfectly true?

Yet you seem to be making some sort of interpretation that there's a philosophy there on my part.

Modifié par David7204, 28 août 2013 - 02:38 .

[The Night Mammoth]

David7204 wrote...

I don't know what to tell you. It sounds to me like you expect every or at least the majority of 'good' actions in video games to have some kind of material, 'selfish' reward. You expect it to the degree that foreshadowing is apparently unneeded, depending on how we define 'foreshadowing.' Let's not get into that.

I have no idea where this belief comes from, but it's certainly a long way from true. If anything, taking the 'good' choice in games often means giving up a 'selfish' reward.

I dunno where this comes from either, maybe it's from playing games since the PS1 was all the rage?

[Steelcan]

Bionuts wrote...

You should play DA, David. Lots of naked women throwing themselves at the Warden.

That's not heroic

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Steelcan wrote...

Bionuts wrote...

You should play DA, David. Lots of naked women throwing themselves at the Warden.

That's not heroic

Right they need skimpy outfits strong characterization!

[Steelcan]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Bionuts wrote...

You should play DA, David. Lots of naked women throwing themselves at the Warden.

That's not heroic

Right they need skimpy outfits strong characterization!

And plot armor so think it makes panzers turn tail and run

[Shadow Fox]

Wait why are folks making fun of this David guy? Not knighting just curious.

[Steelcan]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Wait why are folks making fun of this David guy? Not knighting just curious.

oh lordy where do I start.....

perhaps here

http://social.biowar...597/38#17172388

Modifié par Steelcan, 28 août 2013 - 03:01 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Wait why are folks making fun of this David guy? Not knighting just curious.

No one is making fun of the messiah!

He's a glorious beacon of pure heroism in a dark and unheroic world!

He's our loud protector! A rude Guardian! A white knight!!!!

[David7204]

I speak on behalf of heroism in BioWare games. Some people don't like that, likely because they equate it with 'agreeing with' or 'siding with' the developers and writers. And since many players are frustrated with the developers, they don't want to do that.

They likely equate 'bad' choices with 'thinking for themselves,' 'outsmarting' the writers...nonsense like that. Gives them a nice illusion of power, I imagine.   

Modifié par David7204, 28 août 2013 - 02:54 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

As long as it's not a choice we were railroaded into making, and by that I mean a option where there is no reason we can't get out of an obviously bad situation, but don't simply because of bad writing.

Like, for example, sister petrice. Now, when we do her quest the first time, we can be skeptical, or supportive, but by the end of it it's pretty clear we've been duped. The problem is the player isn't allowed to do anything about it afterwords, for no reason. We aren't allowed to go to anyone and tell them what happened, we certainly aren't allowed to kill her than and there, essentially, our only choice is to let her go, just because the plot demands it. If she had had more forces, or if it was made clear that her templar body guard was more skilled than us and our party, or if we ever see her interfering in act 1 to keep up from reporting her to ethenia, than maybe it'd be better, but that doesn't happen.

It will be bad if these bad choices are implemented like this was, where your forced to do the stupid deed in order to complete the mission. But if they were handled as an actual choice, similar to the harrowmont/bhealan choice in DAO, or other such options that would have a more immediate consequence, than I think it would be much better.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 28 août 2013 - 02:53 .

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

I speak on behalf of heroism in BioWare games. Some people don't like that, likely because they equate it with 'agreeing with' or 'siding with' the developers and writers. And since many players are frustrated with the developers, they don't want to do that.

They likely equate 'bad' choices with 'thinking for themselves,' 'outsmarting' the writers...nonsense like that.  

Don't forget your crusade for proper "characterization"

[Gold Dragon]

And when saving that village leads you to finding out later that they all died of a rather virulent Plague.... and that YOU let the first plague victim in....


Did you really save them?  And what of others if the plague spreads?

Modifié par A Golden Dragon, 28 août 2013 - 02:54 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

David7204 wrote...

I speak on behalf of heroism in BioWare games. Some people don't like that, likely because they equate it with 'agreeing with' or 'siding with' the developers and writers. And since many players are frustrated with the developers, they don't want to do that.

They likely equate 'bad' choices with 'thinking for themselves,' 'outsmarting' the writers...nonsense like that. Gives them a nice illusion of power, I imagine.   

Such power ego! It's... beautiful!!!:wub:

[dreamgazer]

David7204 wrote...

I speak on behalf of heroism in BioWare games. Some people don't like that, likely because they equate it with 'agreeing with' or 'siding with' the developers and writers. And since many players are frustrated with the developers, they don't want to do that.

They likely equate 'bad' choices with 'thinking for themselves,' 'outsmarting' the writers...nonsense like that. Gives them a nice illusion of power, I imagine.   

You can't speak for games or game series you haven't played, stud.

[Cainhurst Crow]

David7204 wrote...

I speak on behalf of heroism in BioWare games. Some people don't like that, likely because they equate it with 'agreeing with' or 'siding with' the developers and writers. And since many players are frustrated with the developers, they don't want to do that.

They likely equate 'bad' choices with 'thinking for themselves,' 'outsmarting' the writers...nonsense like that. Gives them a nice illusion of power, I imagine.   

Are you alright sir?

[David7204]

I'm not speaking for games or series. Merely the themes portrayed within them. Dragon Age could be great. It could be crap. Haven't played it, so can't say either way.

Modifié par David7204, 28 août 2013 - 03:05 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

David7204 wrote...

I'm not speaking for games or series. Merely the themes portrayed within them. Dragon Age could be great. It could be crap.

Are you ever going to play DA Davey?

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

I'm not speaking for games or series. Merely the themes portrayed within them. Dragon Age could be great. It could be crap.

Maybe you should find out

[David7204]

I'll probably buy and play at least DA:O sometime before Inquisition is released.

[Shadow Fox]

Steelcan wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Wait why are folks making fun of this David guy? Not knighting just curious.

oh lordy where do I start.....

perhaps here

http://social.biowar...597/38#17172388

Link's not working for me dude.

EDIT: NVM screw you google chrome!

EDIT2:...Uh wow that's some eggos you got there man.

Modifié par Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke, 28 août 2013 - 03:09 .

[Steelcan]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Wait why are folks making fun of this David guy? Not knighting just curious.

oh lordy where do I start.....

perhaps here

http://social.biowar...597/38#17172388

Link's not working for me dude.

I editted it, try again?

Modifié par Steelcan, 28 août 2013 - 03:07 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

David7204 wrote...

I'll probably buy and play at least DA:O sometime before Inquisition is released.

Make sure to pick only the heroic options!