488 réponses à ce sujet

[Br3admax]

It's okay if you lost interest because of ME3. But if you lost interest from it's end and then continue to come to the forum exclusively for it, you're really off base.

[MegaSovereign]

Greylycantrope wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

To put things in context, that Bioware post was a response to a thread that complained about the lack of a reunion scene. Considering the content of the post, I'm guessing he meant that the reunion is implied given the "hopeful LI."

It wasn't about Shepard's fate.

My point was about scene executions in general. The term "sufficent enough" kinda bothers me as it can be very subjective.

In general, that happens anytime a character is subtly implied to be alive in fiction. As long as every single cynical interpretation isn't ruled out, there will always be people who are skeptical and or plays devil advocate no matter how many clues there are.

So no, I don't think it's the execution of the concept that is the problem, at least not with this scene. I think some people are being annoyingly obtuse about it but I do agree that Bioware would have been better off throwing in some kind of reunion scene.

[shepskisaac]

Greylycantrope wrote...

My point was about scene executions in general. The term "sufficent enough" kinda bothers me as it can be very subjective.

I used "suffcient" specifically to include people who although got it didn't think it was amazing/great (or even decent). The discussion was whether it works on the most basic level or not - as in whether the audience got what it meant or not. And it did, people know it's "Shep survived" scene so yeah, it was executed at least 'sufficient enough' to achieve that

Modifié par IsaacShep, 31 août 2013 - 06:57 .

[Iakus]

JamesFaith wrote...

iakus wrote...

JamesFaith wrote...

Any proof for this claim?

That breathing Shepard brought NO emotions without some reunion slide? Or is just another "speculative proof of my happyend cause"?

Besides the fact that people have been complaining about it for a year and ahalf?  No, I'm not going to claim I have secret spreadsheets that back up all my claims, but can't show you.

People were complaing about lack of reunion scene.
People were complaining about uncertainty about Shepard surviving.

But I didn't see people complaining about lack of emotional impact of breathing Shepard.

Because a reunion scene would be an emotional payoff in a way a faceless torso taking a breath couldn't hope to be.

[CaIIisto]

iakus wrote...
Because a reunion scene would be an emotional payoff in a way a faceless torso taking a breath couldn't hope to be.

That scene does nothing for me. TBH, if it inspired an emotional response with me, it almost certainly wasn't the one that BW intended.

[JamesFaith]

iakus wrote...

JamesFaith wrote...

iakus wrote...

JamesFaith wrote...

Any proof for this claim?

That breathing Shepard brought NO emotions without some reunion slide? Or is just another "speculative proof of my happyend cause"?

Besides the fact that people have been complaining about it for a year and ahalf?  No, I'm not going to claim I have secret spreadsheets that back up all my claims, but can't show you.

People were complaing about lack of reunion scene.
People were complaining about uncertainty about Shepard surviving.

But I didn't see people complaining about lack of emotional impact of breathing Shepard.

Because a reunion scene would be an emotional payoff in a way a faceless torso taking a breath couldn't hope to be.

So just your speculation.

Until you show me some thread or poll that breathing scene itself had NO emotional impact you are just pulling arguments from your ass again.

[KaiserShep]

To be fair, whatever emotional impact the breath scene may have would likely be greatly outweighed by an actual reunion, as there is a huge focus on Shepard's friendships.

[Hadeedak]

I'm gooooood.

Yeah, it could have been better (and worse, I've certainly seen some suggested endings that just make me cringe). But it's all right. It's not the end of the world or the second coming.

I was mildly annoyed before the extended cut. After the extended cut, I'm mildly happy about it.

[AlanC9]

IsaacShep wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

My point was about scene executions in general. The term "sufficent enough" kinda bothers me as it can be very subjective.

I used "suffcient" specifically to include people who although got it didn't think it was amazing/great (or even decent). The discussion was whether it works on the most basic level or not - as in whether the audience got what it meant or not. And it did, people know it's "Shep survived" scene so yeah, it was executed at least 'sufficient enough' to achieve that

One of the problems with threads like this is that people often talk as if they don't know what the scene meant, without actually meaning that they don't know what the scene meant.

Modifié par AlanC9, 01 septembre 2013 - 12:16 .

[Iakus]

JamesFaith wrote...

So just your speculation.

Until you show me some thread or poll that breathing scene itself had NO emotional impact you are just pulling arguments from your ass again.

Oh it had an emotional impact.

A negative one.

I'm speculating as much as you are, btw.

[GimmeDaGun]

iakus wrote...

JamesFaith wrote...

iakus wrote...

JamesFaith wrote...

Any proof for this claim?

That breathing Shepard brought NO emotions without some reunion slide? Or is just another "speculative proof of my happyend cause"?

Besides the fact that people have been complaining about it for a year and ahalf?  No, I'm not going to claim I have secret spreadsheets that back up all my claims, but can't show you.

People were complaing about lack of reunion scene.
People were complaining about uncertainty about Shepard surviving.

But I didn't see people complaining about lack of emotional impact of breathing Shepard.

Because a reunion scene would be an emotional payoff in a way a faceless torso taking a breath couldn't hope to be.

And what about those people who did not give a damn about the romance options in the game and played it only as an epic sci-fi? ME is still not a romantic flick. The first time I played the game I did not care about romances at all and the character I created did not have a LI. The story was just as good and enjoyable. The romances do not add to it too much (story-wise), it's just a bonus to those who enjoy the hollywood romance kind of stuff. 

The breathing scene is not intended to be emotional. It aims to hint that Shepard survived against all odds. The rest is up to each player's imagination. In this regard it's an open ending. Not the first one in the history of story writing, nor the worst. 

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 31 août 2013 - 11:54 .

[crimzontearz]

GimmeDaGun wrote...

iakus wrote...

JamesFaith wrote...

iakus wrote...

JamesFaith wrote...

Any proof for this claim?

That breathing Shepard brought NO emotions without some reunion slide? Or is just another "speculative proof of my happyend cause"?

Besides the fact that people have been complaining about it for a year and ahalf?  No, I'm not going to claim I have secret spreadsheets that back up all my claims, but can't show you.

People were complaing about lack of reunion scene.
People were complaining about uncertainty about Shepard surviving.

But I didn't see people complaining about lack of emotional impact of breathing Shepard.

Because a reunion scene would be an emotional payoff in a way a faceless torso taking a breath couldn't hope to be.

And what about those people who did not give a damn about the romance options in the game and played it only as an epic sci-fi? ME is still not a romantic flick. The first time I played the game I did not care about romances at all and the character I created did not have a LI. The story was just as good and enjoyable. The romances do not add to it too much (story-wise), it's just a bonus to those who enjoy the hollywood romance kind of stuff. 

The breathing scene is not intended to be emotional. It aims to hint that Shepard survived against all odds. The rest is up to each player's imagination. In this regard it's an open ending. Not the first one in the history of story writing, nor the worst. 

in a game that, at the word of its creators, is MEANT to elicit emotional response, in which there are more romance options than in any other game to date (minus dating Sims) and the creators of which ASKED for a player's emotional investment?

seriously Gun, you can do better

also, you might not give a damn about a reunion scene but if it was given to you would it ruin the game for you?

[Iakus]

GimmeDaGun wrote...

And what about those people who did not give a damn about the romance options in the game and played it only as an epic sci-fi? ME is still not a romantic flick. The first time I played the game I did not care about romances at all and the character I created did not have a LI. The story was just as good and enjoyable. The romances do not add to it too much (story-wise), it's just a bonus to those who enjoy the hollywood romance kind of stuff. 

The breathing scene is not intended to be emotional. It aims to hint that Shepard survived against all odds. The rest is up to each player's imagination. In this regard it's an open ending. Not the first one in the history of story writing, nor the worst. 

Show me where I said "romance".  I said "reunion"  Rejoining with friends and fellow officers.  Romance or no.  

And if the revelation that protagonist's survival against all odds is not meant to be emotional, then I say Bioware is even more disconnected from its players than I suspected

[AlanC9]

StreetMagic wrote...

I wouldn't mind a reunion scene, but I'd be fine with more clarification on the survival. I can imagine plenty after that.

I just think the whole cliffhanger idea is unnecessary, if this is an actual closure to Shepard's story. Cliffhangers are meant for like.... the end of a TV show season. Not the end of the story, period. The time for grand mysteries is over already.

What's the difference for interpreting the scene, though? Everyone knows that the guy in a cliffhanger never falls off the cliff.

[GimmeDaGun]

crimzontearz wrote...

in a game that, at the word of its creators, is MEANT to elicit emotional response, in which there are more romance options than in any other game to date (minus dating Sims) and the creators of which ASKED for a player's emotional investment?

seriously Gun, you can do better

also, you might not give a damn about a reunion scene but if it was given to you would it ruin the game for you?

Certainly it would not. But the game and the ending works just as fine without it, to me it at least they do. I don't miss it. 

The romances are still opitonal though: It's not a game about romances. You can certainly play it that way, but since I never cared about them and never was emotionally invested in any of the romances, I don't care. The ending works for me the way it is just fine. However I understand those who are more emotional about the game, that they miss a scene like that, but even they should acknowledge that the story was never meant to be about the romances or Shepard's friendships (it can be, optionally of course - but you can play a mean, hard ass, who is very pragmatic about his or her crew) It is about stopping the reaper threat. It is done and since the EC, there is enough closure for the initial story. 

And I'm still amazed how some ME fans treat this thing as a central problem of their lives and keep posting about the same stuff after one and half years. 

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 01 septembre 2013 - 01:04 .

[GimmeDaGun]

iakus wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...

And what about those people who did not give a damn about the romance options in the game and played it only as an epic sci-fi? ME is still not a romantic flick. The first time I played the game I did not care about romances at all and the character I created did not have a LI. The story was just as good and enjoyable. The romances do not add to it too much (story-wise), it's just a bonus to those who enjoy the hollywood romance kind of stuff. 

The breathing scene is not intended to be emotional. It aims to hint that Shepard survived against all odds. The rest is up to each player's imagination. In this regard it's an open ending. Not the first one in the history of story writing, nor the worst. 

Show me where I said "romance".  I said "reunion"  Rejoining with friends and fellow officers.  Romance or no.  

And if the revelation that protagonist's survival against all odds is not meant to be emotional, then I say Bioware is even more disconnected from its players than I suspected

Sorry, I misunderstood you. 

Well, I don't know. As I wrote in my post before this one, I'm not that emotionally invested. I love the story and it's epicness, scale and mood, but I could never relate to Shepard, since he or she is not an actual character. It is more like a story telling device: via it we can experience the universe and the story. Shepard is not like Geralt of Rivia or Garrett from Thief or Connor from AC3. They are all fleshed out, well written characters with soul, motivations, weaknesses, strengths etc.. I can relate to them in a way, but I could never relate to Shepard. And since I can't relate to the main protagonist, I can't relate to its "bonds" with the other characters. And since those other characters all get their closure in a way, it's all happy days to me. 


To me ME is more of a story-universe-lore-action game, than a game I enjoy for the characters. I know it sounds crazy since the game is stuffed with characters and most fans love the game because of them. I don't. There are a few characters I enjoy (Wrex, Mordin and Javik for example), but ME's characters are not my favorite game characters. 

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 01 septembre 2013 - 12:45 .

[crimzontearz]

GimmeDaGun wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...

iakus wrote...

JamesFaith wrote...

iakus wrote...

JamesFaith wrote...

Any proof for this claim?

That breathing Shepard brought NO emotions without some reunion slide? Or is just another "speculative proof of my happyend cause"?

Besides the fact that people have been complaining about it for a year and ahalf?  No, I'm not going to claim I have secret spreadsheets that back up all my claims, but can't show you.

People were complaing about lack of reunion scene.
People were complaining about uncertainty about Shepard surviving.

But I didn't see people complaining about lack of emotional impact of breathing Shepard.

Because a reunion scene would be an emotional payoff in a way a faceless torso taking a breath couldn't hope to be.

And what about those people who did not give a damn about the romance options in the game and played it only as an epic sci-fi? ME is still not a romantic flick. The first time I played the game I did not care about romances at all and the character I created did not have a LI. The story was just as good and enjoyable. The romances do not add to it too much (story-wise), it's just a bonus to those who enjoy the hollywood romance kind of stuff. 

The breathing scene is not intended to be emotional. It aims to hint that Shepard survived against all odds. The rest is up to each player's imagination. In this regard it's an open ending. Not the first one in the history of story writing, nor the worst. 

in a game that, at the word of its creators, is MEANT to elicit emotional response, in which there are more romance options than in any other game to date (minus dating Sims) and the creators of which ASKED for a player's emotional investment?

seriously Gun, you can do better

also, you might not give a damn about a reunion scene but if it was given to you would it ruin the game for you?

Certainly it would not. But the game and the ending works just as fine without it, to me it at least they do. I don't miss it. 

The romances are still opitonal though: It's not a game about romances. You can certainly play it that way, but since I never cared about them and never was emotionally invested in any of the romances, I don't care. The ending works for me the way it is just fine. However I understand those who are more emotional about the game, that they miss a scene like that, but even they should acknowledge that the story was never meant to be about the romances or Shepard's friendships (it can be, optionally of course - but you can play a mean, hard ass, who is very pragmatic about his or her crew) It is about stopping the reaper threat. It is done and since the EC, there is enough closure for the initial story. 

And I'm still amazed how some ME fans treat this thing as a central problem of their lives and keep posting about the same stuff after one and half years. 

so

the choice is add a reunion which does not change your feelings on the game for you but pleases a LOT of people.....or not add it which does not change your feelings on the game but leaves a lot of people without emotional payoff


and you vote NOT to add it?

why the hell not?

Modifié par crimzontearz, 01 septembre 2013 - 12:32 .

[GimmeDaGun]

crimzontearz wrote...

so

the choice is add a reunion which does not change your feelings on the game for you but pleases a LOT of people.....or not add it which does not change your feelings on the game but leaves a lot of people without emotional payoff


and you vote NOT to add it?

why the hell not?

I did not say that I'm against adding it. I only said that it works just fine without it. I would not mind a scene like that. I just don't miss it. The story is complete to me without it and the ending does work without it. But as I said I understand why many fans miss it and think that the ending to "their" story is incomplete. I get that. But the initial story got its ending and it does work. To those who are more invested in the characters and the Shepard "characer" (the devoid of character, IMO) and their relationships it is certainly not. 

We all play(ed) and love(d) this trilogy for very different reasons. When I first played ME1, I never ever treated it as a characters' game, but more of a story-lore centered game with a few well written and lots of generic characters. ME2 was kind of a surprise to me (because of the lacking story and because many of the characters felt kind of like unnecessary additions or fillers to me). 

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 01 septembre 2013 - 12:55 .

[Iakus]

GimmeDaGun wrote...

Well, I don't know. As I wrote in my post before this one, I'm not that emotionally invested. I love the story and it's epicness, scale and mood, but I could never relate to Shepard, since he or she is not an actual character. It is more like story telling device: via it we can experience the universe and the story. Shepard is not like Geralt of Rivia or Garrett from thief or Connor from AC3. They are all characters with soul, motivations, weaknesses, strengths etc.. I can relate to them in a way, but I could never relate to Shepard. And since I can't relate to the main protagonist, I can't relate to its "bonds" with the other characters. And since those othe characters all get their closure in a way, it's all happy days to me. 


To me ME is more of a story-universe-lore-action game, than a game I enjoy for the characters. I know it sounds crazy since the game is stuffed with characters and most fans love the game for them. I don't. There are a few characters I enjoy (Wrex, Mordin and Javik for example), but ME's characters are not my favorite game characters. 

Who and what Shepard is is supposed to come from you.  You decide the motive.  You determine the strengths and weaknessses.  It's up to you to give Shepard a soul.  That's what role-playing games are all about.  And that's why people become invested:  they put pieces of themselves in the character, and it becomes a part of themselves.  Laugh if you want, but this is something Bioware actively encouraged:  "These are your Shepards"  Up until the end, they were encouraging people to be participants in the storytelling process.

Then they shoved us aside and determined how the tale ends. 

[crimzontearz]

GimmeDaGun wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...

iakus wrote...

JamesFaith wrote...

iakus wrote...

JamesFaith wrote...

Any proof for this claim?

That breathing Shepard brought NO emotions without some reunion slide? Or is just another "speculative proof of my happyend cause"?

Besides the fact that people have been complaining about it for a year and ahalf?  No, I'm not going to claim I have secret spreadsheets that back up all my claims, but can't show you.

People were complaing about lack of reunion scene.
People were complaining about uncertainty about Shepard surviving.

But I didn't see people complaining about lack of emotional impact of breathing Shepard.

Because a reunion scene would be an emotional payoff in a way a faceless torso taking a breath couldn't hope to be.

And what about those people who did not give a damn about the romance options in the game and played it only as an epic sci-fi? ME is still not a romantic flick. The first time I played the game I did not care about romances at all and the character I created did not have a LI. The story was just as good and enjoyable. The romances do not add to it too much (story-wise), it's just a bonus to those who enjoy the hollywood romance kind of stuff. 

The breathing scene is not intended to be emotional. It aims to hint that Shepard survived against all odds. The rest is up to each player's imagination. In this regard it's an open ending. Not the first one in the history of story writing, nor the worst. 

in a game that, at the word of its creators, is MEANT to elicit emotional response, in which there are more romance options than in any other game to date (minus dating Sims) and the creators of which ASKED for a player's emotional investment?

seriously Gun, you can do better

also, you might not give a damn about a reunion scene but if it was given to you would it ruin the game for you?

Certainly it would not. But the game and the ending works just as fine without it, to me it at least they do. I don't miss it. 

The romances are still opitonal though: It's not a game about romances. You can certainly play it that way, but since I never cared about them and never was emotionally invested in any of the romances, I don't care. The ending works for me the way it is just fine. However I understand those who are more emotional about the game, that they miss a scene like that, but even they should acknowledge that the story was never meant to be about the romances or Shepard's friendships (it can be, optionally of course - but you can play a mean, hard ass, who is very pragmatic about his or her crew) It is about stopping the reaper threat. It is done and since the EC, there is enough closure for the initial story. 

And I'm still amazed how some ME fans treat this thing as a central problem of their lives and keep posting about the same stuff after one and half years. 

so

the choice is add a reunion which does not change your feelings on the game for you but pleases a LOT of people.....or not add it which does not change your feelings on the game but leaves a lot of people without emotional payoff


and you vote NOT to add it?

why the hell not?

I did not say that I'm against adding it. I only said that it works just fine without it. I would not mind a scene like that. I just don't miss it. The story is complete to me without it and the ending does work without it. But as I said I understand why many fans miss it and think that the ending to "their" story is incomplete. I get that. But the initial story got its ending and it does work. To those who are more invested in the characters and the Shepard "characer" (the devoid of character, IMO) and their relationships it is certainly not. 

We all play(ed) and love(d) this trilogy for very different reasons. When I first played ME1, I never ever treated it as a characters' game, but more of a story-lore centered game with a few well written and lots of generic characters. ME2 was kind of a surprise to me (because of the lacking story and because many of the characters felt kind of like unnecessary additions or fillers to me). 

well obviously it does not work for some, me for instance

why not add the ****ing scene given the chance?

[Iakus]

Can we trim these quote pyramids please?