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[Propelled Rage]

And control doesn't make any sense either. Like the other one, its basically one man playing God again. Will his opinion remain as unwavering as ever? What's to say wouldn't pick the same solution of harvesting civilizations if he feels that organics/synthetics would never learn?

What's preventing him from developing contempt towards "lower beings" in future, now that he truly understands his enemies and how advanced they are than any other being? After all he's not Shepard anymore is he?

Not to mention any possibility of any other starbrat having some failsafe program to eliminate this transcended Shepard in future? What then?

Yes I'm coming across as cherry picking negative aspects of it, but don't you should always take the worst case scenario when it comes to situation like these? And that is that when Shep has spend the entirety of ME3 preaching to TIM that nothing good can come in controlling the reapers and no man is supposed/deserving to do it.

[LiarasShield]

I honestly think that their probably shouldn't be another mass effect and should just end with shepards sacrifice to save the galaxy on the other note.

If their has to be a sequel then please more planet exploration getting a feeling of exploring the planet not just once city from each world.

[LiarasShield]

Rannoch, tuckanka, earth, thessia, and illium had so much potential they could work off from

[GordianKnot42]

JK Rowling had a good idea for making the next books from the Harry Potter universe take place somewhere else entirely from Hogwarts. Mass Effect has a wealth of background material to draw from, and the galaxy is big enough that they could make it almost entirely independent of the Reaper threat without making it a prequel, which I would hate. Would be hard to make it nearly as satisfying.
As far as the ending, I tied them with my Ren/Par runs. My first wishy washy Shep (who managed to get both the Paragon AND the Renegade special assignments in ME1), did synthesize. Renegade is going to control (because he thinks that highly of himself). And my "canon" Paragon is going to destroy. Whether intended or not, the IT rings true to me. Besides, I want him to end up alive and with Tali.<3

[Iakus]

GordianKnot42 wrote...

JK Rowling had a good idea for making the next books from the Harry Potter universe take place somewhere else entirely from Hogwarts. Mass Effect has a wealth of background material to draw from, and the galaxy is big enough that they could make it almost entirely independent of the Reaper threat without making it a prequel, which I would hate. Would be hard to make it nearly as satisfying.

A good idea.  One which Dragon Age seems to be following for the most part

Unfortunately, the final RGB chcoie affects the entire galaxy.  THere's nowhere you can run where it didn't touch 

[Porslin]

Propelled Rage wrote...

YourFleshIsMine wrote...
The DNA is not exactly the same but will share a certain number of markers. But think about it. Why will everyone get along? Because it's in their DNA, it's not per choice. Evolution works because there is conflict. Without bad experiences we don't learn or grow. So in essence it would be the end of evolution and the peace will be programmed into us. And I think that at some point it may not stick because nature makes mistakes. A baby will be born with a deviation and suddenly someone starts thinking differently and it starts all over again. What will the reapers do then with those anomalies?

Exactly.

Also problem with synthesis is that apart from being a morally questionable choice (to put it mildly), there is hardly any explanation of the events that follow it in the presentation, which includes the original ending and epilogue.

Shepard contributing his energy to the crucible's and the resultant space magic is going to be the best solution as it promotes peace and equality? pfft..

What exactly is there which helps synthetics gains this hitherto unknown understanding about organics? Or what would enable the organics to trust those giant cuttlefish's which were their biggest enemy just moments ago?

What I gather is another form of reaper subjugation/indoctrination conviently dressed as the "final stage of evolution", who in the name of god is that starbrat to decide what qualifies as the final stage of evolution and why should it be forced down everyone's throat?

And if it really is the final stage, then the scenario is even more ridiculous. No one man can decide when or when not a race should 'evolve' so to speak. Nature decides it and it doesn't think that organics were ready for it. So why the hell does Shepard would pick that choice? Not to mention his vehement opposition to Saren when he mentioned the exact same thing.

Yes you got some good points here, also this "Starchild" is just an AI, it makes the assumption based on its data thats it will be the final stage of evolution, could be something competely else aswell since species adapts to their environments and the world wont stay the same forever, and nature is by default chaotic, it would be impossible for this AI to know what the final stage of evolution is. Most likely there will never be a final stage of evolution since adaption to new environments will always be made naturally.

I'm also thinking that "Starchild" is pro-synthesis cause it also benefits AI, and well starchild IS an AI, so probably looking after its own kind the most.. just my 2 cents =)

[RiouHotaru]

I was fine with the endings back before the EC, and frankly I feel the EC was a bit of a waste of their time considering MOST of it was just bits of dialog to soothe fans angry about stuff like "Why is Joker leaving?"

It's funny, because storytelling 101 is "Show, don't tell", and yet Fans demanded Bioware actually break that rule and tell them things they could've inferred all on their own if they were willing to look beyond their doomsaying.

I mean really?

"Everyone starves to death!"
"All the systems with Relays are destroyed!"
"How did the squaddies get back onto the Normandy?"

All things that could've been answered by thinking and applying some common sense rather than immediately thinking everything was doom and gloom. But then I imagine if folks could accept that it was possible for there to be alternate interpretations, they'd have no reason to get mad.

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...

GordianKnot42 wrote...

JK Rowling had a good idea for making the next books from the Harry Potter universe take place somewhere else entirely from Hogwarts. Mass Effect has a wealth of background material to draw from, and the galaxy is big enough that they could make it almost entirely independent of the Reaper threat without making it a prequel, which I would hate. Would be hard to make it nearly as satisfying.

A good idea.  One which Dragon Age seems to be following for the most part

Unfortunately, the final RGB chcoie affects the entire galaxy.  THere's nowhere you can run where it didn't touch 

Didn't matter anyway. Even without the final choice, all human colonies were in play during the Reaper war. Whatever happened, there was no avoiding the war.

[YourFleshIsMine]

RiouHotaru wrote...

All things that could've been answered by thinking and applying some common sense rather than immediately thinking everything was doom and gloom. But then I imagine if folks could accept that it was possible for there to be alternate interpretations, they'd have no reason to get mad.

There's nothing common about common sense. I should think you knew that.

[Clayless]

RiouHotaru wrote...

I was fine with the endings back before the EC, and frankly I feel the EC was a bit of a waste of their time considering MOST of it was just bits of dialog to soothe fans angry about stuff like "Why is Joker leaving?"

It's funny, because storytelling 101 is "Show, don't tell", and yet Fans demanded Bioware actually break that rule and tell them things they could've inferred all on their own if they were willing to look beyond their doomsaying.

I mean really?

"Everyone starves to death!"
"All the systems with Relays are destroyed!"
"How did the squaddies get back onto the Normandy?"

All things that could've been answered by thinking and applying some common sense rather than immediately thinking everything was doom and gloom. But then I imagine if folks could accept that it was possible for there to be alternate interpretations, they'd have no reason to get mad.

Oh god this so much.

For example I've seen people complain about the Catalyst raising Shepard into his chamber. When I pointed out it could have easily been the Crucible some people just straight up ignore it, because it solves all the "plot holes" they were going to create from their interpretation.

People on BSN adore being mindlessly negative so much that they even ignore logic.

[Mathias]

RiouHotaru wrote...

I was fine with the endings back before the EC, and frankly I feel the EC was a bit of a waste of their time considering MOST of it was just bits of dialog to soothe fans angry about stuff like "Why is Joker leaving?"

It's funny, because storytelling 101 is "Show, don't tell", and yet Fans demanded Bioware actually break that rule and tell them things they could've inferred all on their own if they were willing to look beyond their doomsaying.

I mean really?

"Everyone starves to death!"
"All the systems with Relays are destroyed!"
"How did the squaddies get back onto the Normandy?"

All things that could've been answered by thinking and applying some common sense rather than immediately thinking everything was doom and gloom. But then I imagine if folks could accept that it was possible for there to be alternate interpretations, they'd have no reason to get mad.

Uh no, these were serious gaping issue that the original ending had. Technically what your saying has merit to it, but it doesn't make it right. Anyone can headcannon what happened next, but the question is should we have to and do we deserve something better and more concrete? I can easily just say 

"Well the Salarian pulled new technology outta their ass and built a new way to fast travel. WIth a box of scraps!" 

But that's stupid. The galaxy got completed fubared and something like that shouldn't go unanswered by the writers.

Secondly I know there were some people like yourself that were perfectly content with getting less than what you deserved, but for the rest of us we knew what we deserved and what the story and characters deserved. That ending was atrocious. You don't have to be a writer, you don't have to have an education in literature, and you've never even had to have written a book in your life, to know that you don't do the things that they do in this ending. Even if you refer to the Writer's Digest "Do's and Don'ts When Writing an Ending", you'll notice that Mac and Casey broke almost every rule on that list.

http://www.writersdi...f-novel-endings

The ending was objectively bad, pure and simple. You're free to like it. Hell I laughed all the way through Freddy Got Fingered, but there's no way in hell I'm gonna say it was in fact a good movie. Plus not even to mention there was barely any closure with the characters and world you've grown to love and invest yourself in for the past 5 years. Bioware promised us way more than what they actually delivered.

[Iakus]

RiouHotaru wrote...

I was fine with the endings back before the EC, and frankly I feel the EC was a bit of a waste of their time considering MOST of it was just bits of dialog to soothe fans angry about stuff like "Why is Joker leaving?"

It's funny, because storytelling 101 is "Show, don't tell", and yet Fans demanded Bioware actually break that rule and tell them things they could've inferred all on their own if they were willing to look beyond their doomsaying.

I mean really?

"Everyone starves to death!"
"All the systems with Relays are destroyed!"
"How did the squaddies get back onto the Normandy?"

All things that could've been answered by thinking and applying some common sense rather than immediately thinking everything was doom and gloom. But then I imagine if folks could accept that it was possible for there to be alternate interpretations, they'd have no reason to get mad.

Actually, a lot of those assumptions were quite reasonable inferences of what we were shown.

It's hard to use common sense on something that has abandoned common sense.

I do agree that EC was largely a waste given the changes were largely cosmetic in order to plaster over the flaws.

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

Didn't matter anyway. Even without the final choice, all human colonies were in play during the Reaper war. Whatever happened, there was no avoiding the war.

There's no avoiding the war, but there's no avoiding the consequences of RGB either.  Be it shiny green eyes, Reaper overlords, or a synthetic holocaust either.

[Iakus]

Robosexual wrote...
For example I've seen people complain about the Catalyst raising Shepard into his chamber. When I pointed out it could have easily been the Crucible some people just straight up ignore it, because it solves all the "plot holes" they were going to create from their interpretation.

People on BSN adore being mindlessly negative so much that they even ignore logic.

How does the Crucible operating the Magic Space Elevator solve anyhting?

[mupp3tz]

I can't help but think that those who keep bashing the ending haters would have also enjoyed a badass Shepard ending. An epic conclusion with a soundtrack a la Two Steps From Hell or an emotionally moving fade to black? Awesome.

Yeah, okay, there are extremes to both sides, but c'mon it would have been a nice option. You can still provide that dramatic and satisfying ending, while still offering another that is more grey/neutral and one that is bleak and destructive.

Of course, soundtracks assigned appropriately.

Modifié par M U P P 3 T Z, 16 septembre 2013 - 05:59 .

[Clayless]

iakus wrote...

Robosexual wrote...
For example I've seen people complain about the Catalyst raising Shepard into his chamber. When I pointed out it could have easily been the Crucible some people just straight up ignore it, because it solves all the "plot holes" they were going to create from their interpretation.

People on BSN adore being mindlessly negative so much that they even ignore logic.

How does the Crucible operating the Magic Space Elevator solve anyhting?

"Why doesn't the Catalyst do (whatever to solve a situation)? He raised Shepard into his chamber. And why did he do that?"

"Most likely it was the Crucible. The dialogue, "Why are you here?" even suggests that."

"Shutup. You're telling me that something which can change the galaxy on an atomic scale can also interact with an elevator? That ridiculous. Clearly my interpretation which creates plot holes is more correct that your one which doesn't."

[Iakus]

Robosexual wrote...

"Why doesn't the Catalyst do (whatever to solve a situation)? He raised Shepard into his chamber. And why did he do that?"

"Most likely it was the Crucible. The dialogue, "Why are you here?" even suggests that."

"Shutup. You're telling me that something which can change the galaxy on an atomic scale can also interact with an elevator? That ridiculous. Clearly my interpretation which creates plot holes is more correct that your one which doesn't."

What was an elevator doing there in the first place?

Why didn't it just let Shepard bleed out?  Why try to get Shepard to adopt a new solution as it simultaniously enforces its own solution and tries to destroy the Crucible?

[Clayless]

iakus wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

"Why doesn't the Catalyst do (whatever to solve a situation)? He raised Shepard into his chamber. And why did he do that?"

"Most likely it was the Crucible. The dialogue, "Why are you here?" even suggests that."

"Shutup. You're telling me that something which can change the galaxy on an atomic scale can also interact with an elevator? That ridiculous. Clearly my interpretation which creates plot holes is more correct that your one which doesn't."

What was an elevator doing there in the first place?

Why didn't it just let Shepard bleed out?  Why try to get Shepard to adopt a new solution as it simultaniously enforces its own solution and tries to destroy the Crucible?

For the Keepers?

It was pressure sensitive?

[Iakus]

Robosexual wrote...

For the Keepers?

It was pressure sensitive?

A pressure sensitive elevator normally reserved for Keepers in the Council chambers for two thousand years, and nobody ever noticed it? 

[KaiserShep]

It's a bit perplexing thar one would insist that the EC is a waste of time based on the idea that the things it actually does address or retcon entirely can simply be assumed using "common sense". Relays blowing up was clearly established as instant death for the system it's in. This is not something that was explained away somehow between ME2 to 3. It was pretty much an established rule. The squad going from beam run to Normandy makes zero sense. It strains belief enough as it is even when it's actually shown how they escape. Lastly, a big issue with the original ending, aside from the ridiculous Eden nonsense, is that it's grossly abrupt, which is unfitting of a space opera spanning as long as this does. The EC, for all its faults, at least gets rid of these rather damning issues with the conclusion.

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Didn't matter anyway. Even without the final choice, all human colonies were in play during the Reaper war. Whatever happened, there was no avoiding the war.

There's no avoiding the war, but there's no avoiding the consequences of RGB either.  Be it shiny green eyes, Reaper overlords, or a synthetic holocaust either.

Right. I'm just saying that the ending didn't make this aspect worse because the DA approach was never viable for ME  in the first place

Modifié par AlanC9, 16 septembre 2013 - 06:37 .

[AlanC9]

KaiserShep wrote...
 Relays blowing up was clearly established as instant death for the system it's in. This is not something that was explained away somehow between ME2 to 3. It was pretty much an established rule.

The thing is, we see the Citadel Relay not going nova from the Crucible effect, and the Normandy crashed on a non-novaed planet.  I suppose it's conceivable that only those two relays didn't go nova because magic, but it's not an interpretation of what the game shows us that should have ever been taken seriously by anybody.

I agree about the rest, though. The EC really did fix some stuff, and papered over other stuff.

Modifié par AlanC9, 16 septembre 2013 - 06:43 .

[Clayless]

iakus wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

For the Keepers?

It was pressure sensitive?

A pressure sensitive elevator normally reserved for Keepers in the Council chambers for two thousand years, and nobody ever noticed it? 

That's not the Council chambers. And who said no one noticed it?

[KaiserShep]

Maybe the keepers eat anyone that notices. Those poor duct rats didn't know what hit them.