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[crimzontearz]

Or the people who take it rationally and say there is no way he lives for more than 5 minutes (yes because there really would be a lot of him left at that point) and without author intention all signs point to his imminent and lonely death

[shepskisaac]

crimzontearz wrote...

Or the people who take it rationally and say there is no way he lives for more than 5 minutes (yes because there really would be a lot of him left at that point) and without author intention all signs point to his imminent and lonely death

Same group who didn't buy entering an atmosphere in a punctured suit and surviving?

Modifié par IsaacShep, 31 août 2013 - 05:24 .

[crimzontearz]

IsaacShep wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Or the people who take it rationally and say there is no way he lives for more than 5 minutes (yes because there really would be a lot of him left at that point) and without author intention all signs point to his imminent and lonely death

Same group who didn't buy entering an atmosphere in a punctured suit and surviving?

yes, same people who called BW on the stripperific outfits in ME2. The difference is that this scene is at the very end of the series and delivers HORRIBLY

[shepskisaac]

crimzontearz wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Or the people who take it rationally and say there is no way he lives for more than 5 minutes (yes because there really would be a lot of him left at that point) and without author intention all signs point to his imminent and lonely death

Same group who didn't buy entering an atmosphere in a punctured suit and surviving?

yes, same people who called BW on the stripperific outfits in ME2. The difference is that this scene is at the very end of the series and delivers HORRIBLY

And even thought neither of the examples is realistic, people still know the intent. In this case - it's the "He actually lives yay!" scene.

[crimzontearz]

IsaacShep wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Or the people who take it rationally and say there is no way he lives for more than 5 minutes (yes because there really would be a lot of him left at that point) and without author intention all signs point to his imminent and lonely death

Same group who didn't buy entering an atmosphere in a punctured suit and surviving?

yes, same people who called BW on the stripperific outfits in ME2. The difference is that this scene is at the very end of the series and delivers HORRIBLY

And even thought neither of the examples is realistic, people still know the intent. In this case - it's the "He actually lives yay!" scene.

and they still complain about the BS delivery on both (and in this case the subsequent trolling also) so no, Bioware does not get a free pass on this one

[Iakus]

IsaacShep wrote...
And even thought neither of the examples is realistic, people still know the intent. In this case - it's the "He actually lives yay!" scene.

Do I have to quote Gaider again?

[shepskisaac]

crimzontearz wrote...

and they still complain about the BS delivery on both (and in this case the subsequent trolling also) so no, Bioware does not get a free pass on this one

That was my point. You want to hate on every single little bit of the ending. Everything in it HAS to be bad for you. Why? Why does it have to be one extreme or another? Some grey areas? Diverse opinion etc?

iakus wrote...

Do I have to quote Gaider again?

just do, what's the point of these "do I have to quote/repost/bring up X again" posts?

Modifié par IsaacShep, 31 août 2013 - 05:48 .

[Iakus]

IsaacShep wrote...

iakus wrote...

Do I have to quote Gaider again?

just do, what's the point of these "do I have to quote/repost/bring up X again" posts?

Because it was onl;y a couple of pages back?

Anyway:

"Our intention means nothing to the player when they're on the receiving end"

It doesn't matter what they meant to convey.  If they can't bring it across effectively, both on an intellectual and emotional level, then the scene fails

Given how many people were left dissatisfied with the breath scene, I'd say that it applies here.  "Shepard lives!" may have been the intention, but it didn't bring that feeling across effectively.  Therefore, what it meant is irrelevant.

[crimzontearz]

IsaacShep wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

and they still complain about the BS delivery on both (and in this case the subsequent trolling also) so no, Bioware does not get a free pass on this one

That was my point. You want to hate on every single little bit of the ending. Everything in it HAS to be bad for you. Why? Why does it have to be one extreme or another? Some grey areas? Diverse opinion etc?

iakus wrote...

Do I have to quote Gaider again?

just do, what's the point of these "do I have to quote/repost/bring up X again" posts?

I WANT to like it but I cannot because of the awful delivery, and the way their "apology" and their unwillingness to rectify certain issues


 
And really, as I said 10000000 times a SINGLE reunion slider in the epilogue or even goddamn word of god would have made it all bearable for me

[shepskisaac]

iakus wrote...


Because it was onl;y a couple of pages back?

Anyway:

"Our intention means nothing to the player when they're on the receiving end"

It doesn't matter what they meant to convey.  If they can't bring it across effectively, both on an intellectual and emotional level, then the scene fails

Given how many people were left dissatisfied with the breath scene, I'd say that it applies here.  "Shepard lives!" may have been the intention, but it didn't bring that feeling across effectively.  Therefore, what it meant is irrelevant.

social.bioware.com/2734759/polls/39113/ EVEN on BSN where hate for the endings and number of anti-ending people was the highest 3/4 admitted they knew what the scene was abbout lol

[shepskisaac]

crimzontearz wrote...

And really, as I said 10000000 times a SINGLE reunion slider in the epilogue or even goddamn word of god would have made it all bearable for me

So with that single reunion slide everything else would suddenly get a pass.No longer so horrible lore/logic/game breaking things in the ending if there's that blue babies slide? That's exactly my problem with most of fans. Many of them can't seem to even think outside the 2 extremum boxes. If something satisfies them, everything else gets a pass and the authors/creators are treated as second coming. If something angers them, they latch on every little thing in a movie/game/product and make the makers of it look like worst human beings. It's ridiculous.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 31 août 2013 - 06:00 .

[MegaSovereign]

Unless you can prove there are more people who thought the breath scene meant Shepard died than those that thought he lived, your conclusion is based on assumptions.

You guys don't have to hide behind words like "intention" and "execution." You wouldn't be asking for a reunion scene if it wasn't already established that he's alive. It's actually a fallacy to conclude that because there is no reunion shown that there is no way Shepard survived.

[DarthLaxian]

Just Cav wrote...

I'm never going to approve, but I otherwise don't care anymore. So no, I'm not still annoyed.

i can agree with the first part of this statement (and I quote: "I'm never going to approve...") - but everything said after that, is something i can't accept.

it is never ok for a company to slap it's fans in the face (promises like "several different endings", "choices do matter!" etc. (i don't want to recount all those lies!)) and i will never be OK with how Bioware went about that (hell, they slapped "us" (the gamers) again with the "refuse"-option).

i agree with many others, that doing their own story is ok (but not if they tossed out the old plot (dark energy stuff!) and inserted a new one that was dumbed down and essentially illogically stupid and made my - IMHO intelligent - character into a MORON!), but not, if you change the quality and type of story at the end of a series (ME1 and 2 had a different tone, there was hope, sense of wounder etc. - ME3 had no such thing!)

so, in the end, yes, I am still very annoyed (and i lay a lot of the blame on EA (and i blame them for driving the founders of Bioware out) - it started going down hill (and fast) after they bought Bioware IMHO) - even more as they are about to ruin the second franchise they have (which i love very much, too) as well (Dragon Age - DA2 was almost as bad as ME3, but not quite)

greetings LAX

[crimzontearz]

IsaacShep wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

And really, as I said 10000000 times a SINGLE reunion slider in the epilogue or even goddamn word of god would have made it all bearable for me

So with that single reunion slide everything else would suddenly get a pass.No longer so horrible lore/logic/game breaking things in the ending if there's that blue babies slide? That's exactly my problem with most of fans. Many of them can't seem to even think outside the 2 extremum boxes. If something satisfies them, everything else gets a pass and the authors/creators are treated as second coming. If something angers them, they latch on every little thing in a movie/game/product and make the makers of it look like worst human beings. It's ridiculous.

no, the rest would have remained poorly written and dissonant but I would have been willing to overlook it, the lack of a reunion scene is basically the deal breaker for me.

[Iakus]

IsaacShep wrote...

social.bioware.com/2734759/polls/39113/ EVEN on BSN where hate for the endings and number of anti-ending people was the highest 3/4 admitted they knew what the scene was abbout lol

So what?  The scene did not deliver on an emotional level.  Just because people understand the intention doesn't mean it was delivered effectively.  It still fails, it's intention irrelevant.

Modifié par iakus, 31 août 2013 - 06:06 .

[JamesFaith]

iakus wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

social.bioware.com/2734759/polls/39113/ EVEN on BSN where hate for the endings and number of anti-ending people was the highest 3/4 admitted they knew what the scene was abbout lol

So what?  The scene did not deliver on an emotional level.  Just because people understand the intention doesn't mean it was delivered effectively.  It still fails, it's intention irrelevant.

Any proof for this claim?

That breathing Shepard brought NO emotions without some reunion slide? Or is just another "speculative proof of my happyend cause"?

[Epic777]

To: Eterna5,crimzontearz, iakus,IsaacShep

My 2 cents. ME3 needed a good ending make no mistake. It is the last game in a trilogy. The last thing the players will remember. Up to the final 1-2 ME3 had been a little Jekyll and Hyde. When it was at it best ME3 easily best in the series (Rannoch,Tuchanka) then on the flip-side you have the auto-dialogue, Kai Leng, the Cerberus coup etc.

ME3's endng had many issues but its biggest issue is the schism between narrative and ending. Make no mistake they could have pulled a dark no win ending.

As I wrote to someone else:
With ME3 they made the inevitable synthetic vs organic argument weaker. The Geth are very sympathetic, the Quarians especially Han'Gerral are very gung ho. Han'Gerral shoots at you when you try to save the quarian fleet The Geth could have destroyed the quarians but didn't. EDI is essentially becoming a real girl. Yet in the end you don't even have Synthetics vs Organics, in the sense you dont have anyone representing the synthetics, the Geth unless destroyed will fight against the reapers. Ironically the Reapers don't represent the synthetics as they are here to help organics in their strange way....

A writer has to be like a politician and persuade their audience. An example a writer can cannot portray character A as sympathetic unless character A has been shown constantly as sympathetic, that effect will not work with your audience. What if ME3 had built a proper foundation were the player has continually seen that synthetics were unstoppable and were leading to destroying all organics? Gamers would have accepted it like viewers have accepted that a certain character in Breaking bad may meet a bad end likewise a certain dwarf in Game of Thrones.

[shepskisaac]

iakus wrote...

 Just because people understand the intention doesn't mean it was delivered effectively.  It still fails, it's intention irrelevant.

If people were able to understand the meaning then clearly the delivery of the intention was sufficient enough. If it wasn't, you would have like 75% thinking Shep is dead.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 31 août 2013 - 06:21 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

IsaacShep wrote...

iakus wrote...

 Just because people understand the intention doesn't mean it was delivered effectively.  It still fails, it's intention irrelevant.

If people were able to understand the meaning then clearly the delivery of the intention was sufficient enough. If it wasn't, you would have like 75% thinking Shep is dead.

When the devs have to come out and point say what they were doing with the scene to show their intention it wasn't well executed.

We have a statistic on who thought Shepard was dead?

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 31 août 2013 - 06:31 .

[MegaSovereign]

To put things in context, that Bioware post was a response to a thread that complained about the lack of a reunion scene. Considering the content of the post, I'm guessing he meant that the reunion is implied given the "hopeful LI."

It wasn't about Shepard's fate.

[shepskisaac]

Greylycantrope wrote...

We have a statistic on who thought Shepard was dead?

I posted it few posts before

[Iakus]

JamesFaith wrote...

Any proof for this claim?

That breathing Shepard brought NO emotions without some reunion slide? Or is just another "speculative proof of my happyend cause"?

Besides the fact that people have been complaining about it for a year and ahalf?  No, I'm not going to claim I have secret spreadsheets that back up all my claims, but can't show you.

[GreyLycanTrope]

MegaSovereign wrote...

To put things in context, that Bioware post was a response to a thread that complained about the lack of a reunion scene. Considering the content of the post, I'm guessing he meant that the reunion is implied given the "hopeful LI."

It wasn't about Shepard's fate.

My point was about scene executions in general. The term "sufficent enough" kinda bothers me as it can be very subjective.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 31 août 2013 - 06:49 .

[JamesFaith]

iakus wrote...

JamesFaith wrote...

Any proof for this claim?

That breathing Shepard brought NO emotions without some reunion slide? Or is just another "speculative proof of my happyend cause"?

Besides the fact that people have been complaining about it for a year and ahalf?  No, I'm not going to claim I have secret spreadsheets that back up all my claims, but can't show you.

People were complaing about lack of reunion scene.
People were complaining about uncertainty about Shepard surviving.

But I didn't see people complaining about lack of emotional impact of breathing Shepard.

[crimzontearz]

JamesFaith wrote...

iakus wrote...

JamesFaith wrote...

Any proof for this claim?

That breathing Shepard brought NO emotions without some reunion slide? Or is just another "speculative proof of my happyend cause"?

Besides the fact that people have been complaining about it for a year and ahalf?  No, I'm not going to claim I have secret spreadsheets that back up all my claims, but can't show you.

People were complaing about lack of reunion scene.
People were complaining about uncertainty about Shepard surviving.

But I didn't see people complaining about lack of emotional impact of breathing Shepard.

oh it had an impact....it was aggravating