237 réponses à ce sujet

[Karlone123]

Xilizhra wrote...

N7recruit wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Look at how badly things went in ME3 when there was only the implication that your party would never see you again. And the overall fiasco of ME3 in general. Very, very bad move.

I'm not questioning the move would be... Controversial, But would you not find the ensuing **** storm at least  "Kinda" Funny?
I dout that I would find the scene itself funny at all TBH but the reaction would be somthing worth seeing though:lol:

No.

Yes.

[Brodoteau]

No Red Wedding needed. Just a [ancient BG2 spoiler] Yoshimo-type betrayal would be fine.
Yoshimo's betrayal both served to a game purpose (you could take Imoen in your group) and a story purpose. It was well-done and also unavoidable. That was good.

It's been a long time, that I can think of, since one of your party members turned on you in a Bioware game (and no Bastila doesn't count; neither does the DA2 Fade betrayals). We need a betrayal. Even better if it was someone from a previous game -- like Leliana.

Remember each game features a new character, so just because Leliana or whoever would never have betrayed a Warden, it doesn't mean they wouldn't turn on the Inquisitor.   Imagine a Varric betrayal?  or even better Alistair! 

Modifié par Brodoteau, 28 août 2013 - 03:44 .

[ianvillan]

Brodoteau wrote...

No Red Wedding needed. Just a [ancient BG2 spoiler] Yoshimo-type betrayal would be fine.
Yoshimo's betrayal both served to a game purpose (you could take Imoen in your group) and a story purpose. It was well-done and also unavoidable. That was good.

It's been a long time, that I can think of, since one of your party members turned on you in a Bioware game (and no Bastila doesn't count; neither does the DA2 Fade betrayals). We need a betrayal. Even better if it was someone from a previous game -- like Leliana.

Remember each game features a new character, so just because Leliana or whoever would never have betrayed a Warden, it doesn't mean they wouldn't turn on the Inquisitor.   Imagine a Varric betrayal?  or even better Alistair! 

I agree with what you said and would like a betrayal but Bioware has to make it so that the person betraying you has a reason and is believable in there justification not just that you called them fat 15 years ago.

[MisterJB]

Vilegrim wrote...
I'd imagine so, but the really stupid thing was the way they acted afterwards, they aren't a major house and back chatting the Lannisters (pretty much the only people who could protect them in anyway) AND doing everything to alienate what few allies they have left...yes that was the real idiocy.

I actually remember some Frey or other being especialy cordial to Jaime at the siege of Riverrun but he having none of it.

At any rate, ASOIF has always had characters making major mistakes because of their personalities; Eddard, Robb, Theon, Cersei even Tywin with the way he despises the most capable of his sons or how he forgot to tell Gregor to NOT kill Ellia Martel and ****** off the entirety of Dorne. It doesn't make it any less realistic since in real life, people make mistakes.

[Nightwing99]

There a Event in dargon age that can be used as Red Wedding the murder of the The Vaels the ruling family of the city of Starkhaven

[N7recruit]

David7204 wrote...

The part where it says 'Just Cuz'? Although reading it again, the grammar and the meaning is a bit tough to make out.

Typing on a phone, give me a break<_< What I ment was for them to have a very, very good reason to do something like the Red Wedding Scene & not "Just cuz" + the whole scrcasm with the "Lets kill the Entire Cast! The fans will love it!" was ment as a joke, thought that bit was clear. 

[Maria Caliban]

Brodoteau wrote...

No Red Wedding needed. Just a [ancient BG2 spoiler] Yoshimo-type betrayal would be fine.
Yoshimo's betrayal both served to a game purpose (you could take Imoen in your group) and a story purpose. It was well-done and also unavoidable. That was good.

I don't even recall his betrayal. Though I remember walking to the tavern I stored him at and him suddenly dropping dead. That was amusing.

Edit: Oh, it was avoidable. He only betrayed you if you had him in your party at a specific point.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 28 août 2013 - 03:57 .

[The Hierophant]

Forget the Red Wedding a Purple Wedding would be nicer.

[In Exile]

Wulfram wrote...

Not really.  I mean, Robb was realistically screwed, but the actual way it played out required suicidal stupidity on the part of the Freys.

But the Freys are pretty stupid. One thing I think Martin does well - as an author - is not underestimate the degree to which political decisions come about out of stupid ideas and from stupid people. The Freys had a low kind of cunning and not very many scruples, and so they jumped ship when Tywin offered them something. They weren't bright enough to see that they were just going to be a lightning rob. 

[In Exile]

David7204 wrote...

The part where it says 'Just Cuz'? Although reading it again, the grammar and the meaning is a bit tough to make out.

It says not without having a very strong reason or just cuz, i.e., the complete opposite of that. 

[StElmo]

I would totally respect such a ballsy move! I actually have come to appreciate risks being taken by devs. So yeah I would totally be up for that, even if 99% of fans were pissed

[Stalker]

Oh god, don't mention that kind of stuff to the BioWare community! After the ****storms I have seen here over minor things such as the lacking bisexuality of a character, I would expect half of BSN to literally go out and riot on the streets if something like that happened.

How I would react? I love that kind of stuff and would probably sit back and laugh at how the forums explode full of angry entitled whiners who lost their virtual waifu.

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 28 août 2013 - 04:28 .

[Rawgrim]

I would love it. Have someone completely betray me. A party member, even. But I wouldn`t like it to happen by default. Having it be a possible consequence of something i have done earlier in the game sounds better.

[d-boy15]

Ain't gonna work out well for them...

Unless it will only happen if you don't prepare enough, screw up or put your trust in a wrong person.
That might be a great idea which will be awesome for everyone.

Modifié par d-boy15, 28 août 2013 - 04:50 .

[nikkylee]

Am I the only one who had a harder time with the murdering of Robert's bastards, or the (tv show) scene with Joff and the two girls Tyrion bought him? The RW was sad and all, and it'd be shocking to maybe have to fight your way out of... but pretty similar to the HN origin in DAO.

That said, I hate to echo the old "make it darker!" request, but I would love some GoT-style political intrigue and such.

[Rawgrim]

All hell breaks loose in DA:I, though. It would be odd if it had a happy ending.

[Ap0crypha]

I cried buckets at the Red Wedding, but Robb was kinda dumb to go to that thing in the first place. Or break his oaths by marrying someone else.

And if Bioware pulled something like that just to see us cry, you can bet there'd be total fan outrage. IF, however, it was for plot reasons, or was a particularly good twist, then it might go over okay. Me, personally, well, it'd depend on who died and for what reasons.

[Morty Smith]

meh.

[Brodoteau]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Brodoteau wrote...

No Red Wedding needed. Just a [ancient BG2 spoiler] Yoshimo-type betrayal would be fine.
Yoshimo's betrayal both served to a game purpose (you could take Imoen in your group) and a story purpose. It was well-done and also unavoidable. That was good.

I don't even recall his betrayal. Though I remember walking to the tavern I stored him at and him suddenly dropping dead. That was amusing.

Edit: Oh, it was avoidable. He only betrayed you if you had him in your party at a specific point.

It was unavoidable in the sense that Yoshimo was dead at the end.  If you didn't realize why he dropped dead it was a tad confusing, but the result was the same:  Dead Yoshimo.  If you didn't have in your party it was a bit inelegant, but irreversible nonetheless.

Still the major point is there.  A companion betrayal would be a nice twist, especially when you consider the loyalties to the factions of Thedas.  And, again, make it so that approval or loyalty has nothing to do with it -- it is just something that had to happen. 

[Han Shot First]

It wouldn't work because you can't have a player spend 40 or 50 hours playing a game, only to be presented with an ending where that player has no option but to lose that game. The reaction of the vast majority of the players is that they just wasted those 40 or 50 hours playing a game they can't win.

The Red Wedding works in the A Song of Ice and Fire books (and in the TV series) because the story doesn't end at the Red Wedding. Although shocking, its an event in the middle of the story and not the conclusion of it. The series also doesn't have a single protagonist. There are multiple characters with their own agendas that the readers or viewers are identifying with or rooting for.

That all being said, I fully support having scenarios where squadmate deaths can't be avoided. (ex. Virmire)

[Volus Warlord]

David7204 wrote...

Such tactics are generally a cheap and easy way to feign maturity.

Unfortunately, just about any kind of subversive art, including fiction, gets lauded by some people merely on the grounds of being subversive.

Cheap and easy? Subversive? Doubtful.

As per cheap-if you are making a detailed, relatable character with the objective to kill them off later and force a replacement of some sort, does that seem cheap? If anything, it's expensive! That way you have to make more  and more characters. The cheap thing to do would be to make a few characters that have plot armor and do not die regardless. That way you minimize the conceptualization required when making characters.

As per easy-as a writer, if you made a character you truly put your soul into, did everything you could to make them amazing, would it be easy for you to endure killing them off? Maybe if you're a masosadist. Otherwise watching that character die would be like watching part of yourself die. It would not be easy at all. Many writers and artist compare their constructs to children-they feel like their creation and pride. So I doubt killing them off would be easy.

And killing characters off may not even be subversive. It may be the polar opposite of subversive, which is entirely dependant on the character. If the character is a criminal or terrorist or something along those lines, their death will be anti-subversive.

It seems you are entirely wrong.

[Noxis6]

Hm well would depend I guess a betrayal like the red wedding would be possible,also would depend would the instigators suffer the same kind of fallout and will there be pie