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The only "solution" I can agree with is being able to save a world state on USB but I have heard. let's call them rumors because I don't own a console, this doesn't work or isn't allowed on consoles.
<snip>
I don't know about the xone, but the ps4 can use usb flash drives. It's how you can update the system if your console is offline. So I don't see why you can't use a usb to upload your world state for inquisition. It just has to be available in the game is all.
I don't know about the xone, but the ps4 can use usb flash drives. It's how you can update the system if your console is offline. So I don't see why you can't use a usb to upload your world state for inquisition. It just has to be available in the game is all.
It would require the Keep to be able to produce an actual file to move onto a USB stick though, and then require that the game can read, extract and implement that file. Neither of those things sounds particularly trivial, in the sense that they would need extra testing and programming.
(Not to mention that the Keep is specifically designed to work on mobiles and tablets, which seems to rely on the premise that the information will only be going to EA's servers online.)
It would require the Keep to be able to produce an actual file to move onto a USB stick though, and then require that the game can read, extract and implement that file. Neither of those things sounds particularly trivial, in the sense that they would need extra testing and programming.
(Not to mention that the Keep is specifically designed to work on mobiles and tablets, which seems to rely on the premise that the information will only be going to EA's servers online.)
Right. That's why I said it would have to be available in the game. If the game itself doesn't support it, it wont work. As far as the keep it creates a file already it just needs to be able to be downloaded from the server to a computer or tablet(since most tablets have usb capability on them), as well as be moved to the EA server. The phone option can still work you will just have to transfer the file to a computer first to put it on a flash drive.
Sure - but transferring files from a phone is not convenient. It's actually very fiddly and quite difficult, especially for people who are not used to transferring from the folders on their smartphone.
A cloud-based solution is comparatively hassle-free, and for the majority of people who connect their console to the internet it'll be exceedingly simple. Simplicity and user-friendliness is probably why they're doing it this way, in fact.
Fernando Melo pointed out in that Keep interview on YouTube that they have to think about their entire audience when designing stuff like this - and not everyone necessarily knows how to move and deal with save files. A Keep that seamlessly saves your decisions to the cloud and then recognises them when starting a new game sounds like an elegant solution - and something that people don't even have to think about.
Sure - but transferring files from a phone is not convenient. It's actually very fiddly and quite difficult, especially for people who are not used to transferring from the folders on their smartphone.
A cloud-based solution is comparatively hassle-free, and for the majority of people who connect their console to the internet it'll be exceedingly simple. Simplicity and user-friendliness is probably why they're doing it this way, in fact.
Fernando Melo pointed out in that Keep interview on YouTube that they have to think about their entire audience when designing stuff like this - and not everyone necessarily knows how to move and deal with save files. A Keep that seamlessly saves your decisions to the cloud and then recognises them when starting a new game sounds like an elegant solution - and something that people don't even have to think about.
The usb solution is for people who don't have their consoles hooked up to the internet. I don't expect everyone to use it. Just the ones that either can't or don't feel like hooking up their consoles to the internet.
I was assuming you were referring to the Keep (since that's the thread we are in) not the Xbox on its own.
So maybe Gibbed will make one for inquisition some time in the future. Who knows. Either way bioware is trying to fix a problem that their fans have wanted fixed. This was their solution. Take it for what it is. They listened.
That's exactly my point. Bio has never cared if you break the game by trying to mod it. Whether that works or not is your problem. So why would they care if a player takes the Keep output and tries to mod that? If it blows up, that isn't their problem either.
I can see them not bothering with making the Keep output any file at all because they think that reading the world-state data directly into DAI is more efficient, though.
Even if I'm still not sure why using the savegame code they're going to put in anyway wouldn't be the way to go. Although this does depend on how character generation works; this is why DAI had trouble with US saves, IIRC. But at some point you gotta trust that the guys who actually know the code know what can be done with it.
The usb solution is for people who don't have their consoles hooked up to the internet. I don't expect everyone to use it. Just the ones that either can't or don't feel like hooking up their consoles to the internet.
The USB solution for consoles is almost 100% an impossibility, console manufacturers will never allow what is essentially save data created by an external source (ie. not their console specifically) because it is a security hole. Also it would mean M$ and S¥ would need to agree on the exact specifications across all 4 of their systems, which will NEVER happen b/c they never agree on anything. Hell right now the PS4 won't even read your music / videos off of an USB stick, something the previous generations did.
That's exactly my point. Bio has never cared if you break the game by trying to mod it. Whether that works or not is your problem. So why would they care if a player takes the Keep output and tries to mod that? If it blows up, that isn't their problem either.
I can see them not bothering with making the Keep output any file at all because they think that reading the world-state data directly into DAI is more efficient, though.
Even if I'm still not sure why using the savegame code they're going to put in anyway wouldn't be the way to go. Although this does depend on how character generation works; this is why DAI had trouble with US saves, IIRC. But at some point you gotta trust that the guys who actually know the code know what can be done with it.
The reason they went to the keep was because fans hated the fact that direct import of saves from origins to DA2 had glitches on the flags for the decisions that were made in origins. ME had the same problem. The Keep generates a file automatically and stores the file or files(If you have more than one world state) on there servers in you origin account. Those files are then downloaded by inquisition to set up your initial world state in the game, if you don't want to use the default one. People who have their consoles offline(not connected to the internet) would not be able to use the Keep if the keep didn't have a way to download the file or files to a usb flash drive instead. As far as editing the flags the keep allows you to do this anyway, so why not use it.
The USB solution for consoles is almost 100% an impossibility, console manufacturers will never allow what is essentially save data created by an external source (ie. not their console specifically) because it is a security hole. Also it would mean M$ and S¥ would need to agree on the exact specifications across all 4 of their systems, which will NEVER happen b/c they never agree on anything. Hell right now the PS4 won't even read your music / videos off of an USB stick, something the previous generations did.
Actually the ps4 can read music off a usb flash drive, but it is only used with the share factory program they just set up on the system not to long ago.
So actually I see it very possible for inquisition to be able to do this.
The reason they went to the keep was because fans hated the fact that direct import of saves from origins to DA2 had glitches on the flags for the decisions that were made in origins. ME had the same problem. The Keep generates a file automatically and stores the file or files(If you have more than one world state) on there servers in you origin account. Those files are then downloaded by inquisition to set up your initial world state in the game, if you don't want to use the default one. People who have their consoles offline(not connected to the internet) would not be able to use the Keep if the keep didn't have a way to download the file or files to a usb flash drive instead. As far as editing the flags the keep allows you to do this anyway, so why not use it.
I have a feeling that there is going to be a Mass Effect "Armoury" or some such thing for ME4 since that will face the exact same problems as DAI (cross platform, cross generation disconnects).
I have a feeling that there is going to be a Mass Effect "Armoury" or some such thing for ME4 since that will face the exact same problems as DAI (cross platform, cross generation disconnects).
I have a feeling you are right.
So when is the Dragon Age Keep webpage going to get an update it looks so drab needs sprucing up.
Do you mean that you are in the beta, or are you talking about the page that talks about registering for it?
I have a feeling that there is going to be a Mass Effect "Armoury" or some such thing for ME4 since that will face the exact same problems as DAI (cross platform, cross generation disconnects).
As far as I understand, Mass Effect 4 won't need ME Trilogy save files. Also it would be too hard to continue the story with the split endings since Bioware didn't want to put a solid ending for the Trilogy, something that would've been smart for them to do since they wanted Mass Effect to be an on going universe to revisit like Star Wars.
As for DAI Worldstates going on USB, I think it would have to be something added later after the Keep is up. They could probably make something that allows it to go on the USB port as a Xbox save or Playstation save. Sorta like converting it into a DAI Worldstate save for system you are playing DAI on.
Slightly off topic: I wonder what its like to have beta access to the keep? I guess those who do must be enjoying the speculation while knowing exactly what it is like.
However I guess also once you've gone through and made your numerous save states there's not anything else to do.
<snip>
As for DAI Worldstates going on USB, I think it would have to be something added later after the Keep is up. They could probably make something that allows it to go on the USB port as a Xbox save or Playstation save. Sorta like converting it into a DAI Worldstate save for system you are playing DAI on.
Actually no it wouldn't it can be in the format that is kept on the server. The game can open it the same way it does when it gets it from your origin account. One format that all systems can read since the game is opening it not the system.
To me, it seems like, the Keep wasn't done as a service for the customer
Well, it's just my word so you're free to not believe it... but even as an employee I *love* the keep since we're only testing from one source. I spent a lot of time testing DA2's import process from a systemic point of view. I give people full permission to tell me how perfectly that went.
Given that we also had to come up with a solution that dealt with the console transition, because we didn't want people to feel forced to stick with a platform they didn't want to play on, I hope at least some consideration that we felt this would be a solution that would be preferred among a lot of people, as opposed to something ostensibly done to protect ourselves via some form of DRM. Note that it's only really an effective form of DRM depending on how many people feel that the import process is mandatory. I don't even know how many people imported their game for DA2 (though telemetry may say)... nor do I know how many people would have been just fine if they couldn't (this is hard to say. If there was no import feature at all but the game was pretty uniformly well received and highly regarded, would this be your deal breaker? How widespread would this feeling be?). If most people are actually okay playing the game under some default state, then this is a pretty poor form of DRM.
As someone that provided feedback on the Keep when it was still in the conceptual stages, what I liked about it was:
The biggest negative, of course, was connectivity. Could people connect? How many people would be overlooked? Some undoubtedly will. Is that acceptable?
Ideally, the Keep should be a separate application that comes with the game, but it's opened within the game itself.
Sure, ideally. But I think you understate the amount of time and effort it'd take to do this. Plus it would come with the added negatives of losing some of the benefits of the online process (unless you were suggesting keeping the online part as well... in which case I think you're really underestimating the dev time). Your proposed solution may also not even be allowed by First Party, depending on whether or not they allow us to install and execute separate applications from an already running application. There's also patch restrictions and other things that can complicate things that most customers don't really know about because it doesn't really affect them (so they don't need to know about it).
Your assumption that it wouldn't take extra development time, however, is incorrect. If it didn't cost us anything, we'd do it because we love solving problems for free.
Probably a stupid Techless question, but will we be able to utilize pics of our new DAI Keep avatars here on the forums like the prior DA games? It is kinda nice having something more unique than a generic placeholder pic, and have no idea how to add something else. Thanks!
Go to your profile, hover over your avatar, and you should see "change" to let you change your picture. Mine is a custom one (most are)
Probably a stupid Techless question, but will we be able to utilize pics of our new DAI Keep avatars here on the forums like the prior DA games? It is kinda nice having something more unique than a generic placeholder pic, and have no idea how to add something else. Thanks!
Go to your profile, hover over your avatar, and you should see "change" to let you change your picture. Mine is a custom one (most are)
And here I thought that was Elhanan's custom avatar! 
I spent a lot of time testing DA2's import process from a systemic point of view. I give people full permission to tell me how perfectly that went.
<re separate application thing>
Sure, ideally. But I think you understate the amount of time and effort it'd take to do this. Plus it would come with the added negatives of losing some of the benefits of the online process (unless you were suggesting keeping the online part as well... in which case I think you're really underestimating the dev time). Your proposed solution may also not even be allowed by First Party, depending on whether or not they allow us to install and execute separate applications from an already running application. There's also patch restrictions and other things that can complicate things that most customers don't really know about because it doesn't really affect them (so they don't need to know about it).
Your assumption that it wouldn't take extra development time, however, is incorrect. If it didn't cost us anything, we'd do it because we love solving problems for free.
I think it would most likely have to be something like what Ubisoft does with Uplay which is I believe a browser based application call from within the program (the game opens up a game specific Uplay with the console's web browser). That way you could change the code for the Uplay application server side and not even need to worry about the horrors of console patching. Never tried Uplay offline though, always assumed it was an online only thing so that still wouldn't help the people who want / need that.
Although what you said made me think, what happens if for example I create my World State, import it into the game, start playing and then Bioware discovers a bug in the logic of one of the choices (which i just happened to choose) and needs to patch it. How would that play out for my game? I would assume I still had the bugged world state. Still run into the problem with the faulty logic on the import. I'm guessing you want to make sure that doesn't happen but nothing is ever 100%.
well I love the keep =D, hehe I have not try it yet. but i love the set up of it. this will help a lot of people who want to try different stories..without needing to go back. Also people who are used to da2 or DA:I.. graphics.. years later. When .they don't want to try DA:O at all.. this will help them. and so on ^^
keep on kicking butt with it. looking forward to it, during the fall ^^
talking off topic here, A little story =p
But I myself bought DA:O for pc. I love.. sadly my pc blew up.. lol so there goes playing DA:O.. even before that, I choose to have it for the ps3.. because it would run easier.. at that time most of my part time pay check were going to school, house and life. so I would rather play safe on my ps3. I was sad how i couldnt trasnfer it over.. Yeah it was a whole new story in da. a more personal story which I love by the way. so i knew my chocies in da:o would be more of things heard..but i already knew that it would it all add up into the long run of the DA games. that i was happy about. sadly.. couldnt transfer pc to ps3 hehe. I did not enjoy ps3 DA:O one bet.. haha.
Any how I play da2 on ps3. pretty much became a fan of it. About half a year ago or so. After getting a laptop.. steam sale happen. So i bought da:o again , as well amazon sale of da2 for 10 bucks. it was fun, I transfer my stuff over.. I can now see the little things. which i like. now that the keep is happening.. i can finally. transfer it all over into the keep.. DA:O AND DA2 from pc. look at my choices.. and help pick them , so i can cross into ps3 version of DA:I when it comes out. ^^ enjoy it.
i HAVE no idea where i was going with this haha
Modifié par Oasis_JS, 21 mai 2014 - 07:25 .
I think it would most likely have to be something like what Ubisoft does with Uplay which is I believe a browser based application call from within the program (the game opens up a game specific Uplay with the console's web browser). That way you could change the code for the Uplay application server side and not even need to worry about the horrors of console patching. Never tried Uplay offline though, always assumed it was an online only thing so that still wouldn't help the people who want / need that.
Although what you said made me think, what happens if for example I create my World State, import it into the game, start playing and then Bioware discovers a bug in the logic of one of the choices (which i just happened to choose) and needs to patch it. How would that play out for my game? I would assume I still had the bugged world state. Still run into the problem with the faulty logic on the import. I'm guessing you want to make sure that doesn't happen but nothing is ever 100%.
If we have issues with the logic of the game, it will cause issues. This will happen regardless, and would need a patch to fix.
The issues we have is the haphazard way that the logic was stored with DAO (where some events, for some reason, led to some people feeling we should blank out some flags in DAO and create new "final" flags for people that completed witch hunt). We also learned that creating custom saved games through creative editing didn't accurately simulate what you were given from the games themselves. So while we could create our own, test with them, and we could confirm "yup it's working fine!" Except... we made an assumption that they'd be equivalent when they weren't. Whoops....
So now the alternative becomes "lets create valid playthroughs for DAO, *and* DA2, for world state import testing." That's a lot of time and effort.... Did patches change anything? Can we just use old save games we created? Does it test every permutation appropriately? Do the flags import properly into DA2, since we'll have to import them again into DAI. Did we even think to import a flag from DAO into DA2 that we now care about for DAI?
Fair enough regarding Uplay.
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