7827 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexJK]

clone wars wrote...

well if this is something  that we need to play the game so  thay  have  to show us how this is go to work

And how exactly would a trailer do that? When the Keep is finished and opened to the public, it will come with instructions. Until then, no need to worry, is there?

[clone wars]

AlexJK wrote...

clone wars wrote...

well if this is something  that we need to play the game so  thay  have  to show us how this is go to work

And how exactly would a trailer do that? When the Keep is finished and opened to the public, it will come with instructions. Until then, no need to worry, is there?

well thay  have to show us the sell points of this  plus  When the Keep is finished and opened to the public  do you think  that  bioware is go to say it done he is the  instructions good luck no  thay are go to show this off  thay will try  to get as many of us on this asp

[AlexJK]

clone wars wrote...

well thay  have to show us the sell points of this  plus  When the Keep is finished and opened to the public  do you think  that  bioware is go to say it done he is the  instructions good luck no  thay are go to show this off  thay will try  to get as many of us on this asp

What?

Firstly, they don't have to "show us the sell points". The Keep lets you import a world state, nothing else does. If you want to import a world state, you use the Keep.

Secondly, if I've correctly deciphered the second part of your encrypted message, no I don't think they'll just launch it and say "he is the   instructions good luck". I'm saying that making a trailer of a website is a bit pointless.

But hey, maybe they will. Who knows, right?

[Todd23]

I only have 2 questions.

1. When beta testers are selected will Bioware give us notice so that those selected know when to check there spam folders, and so that those who are not don't KEEP checking there's for months.

2. Will we be able to import our saves into the keep and make adjustments to it from there, or will we have an ultimatum between making one from scratch on the keep or trying our luck at importing a save directly to Inquisition?

[AlexJK]

Todd23 wrote...

I only have 2 questions.

1. When beta testers are selected will Bioware give us notice so that those selected know when to check there spam folders, and so that those who are not don't KEEP checking there's for months.

How would that be Bioware's problem?

2. Will we be able to import our saves into the keep and make adjustments to it from there, or will we have an ultimatum between making one from scratch on the keep or trying our luck at importing a save directly to Inquisition?

Bioware have said that they are looking into the possibility of importing a save file into the Keep, but it's not confirmed yet. You will not be able to import a save directly into Inquisition - the only way to have your choices reflected in Inquisition is via the Keep.

[Todd23]

AlexJK wrote...

Todd23 wrote...

I only have 2 questions.

1. When beta testers are selected will Bioware give us notice so that those selected know when to check there spam folders, and so that those who are not don't KEEP checking there's for months.

How would that be Bioware's problem?

It's there problem if beta testers are unaware that they're beta testers, and that those who aren't chosen are unaware that they aren't beta testers.

[clone wars]

AlexJK wrote...

clone wars wrote...

well thay  have to show us the sell points of this  plus  When the Keep is finished and opened to the public  do you think  that  bioware is go to say it done he is the  instructions good luck no  thay are go to show this off  thay will try  to get as many of us on this asp

What?

Firstly, they don't have to "show us the sell points". The Keep lets you import a world state, nothing else does. If you want to import a world state, you use the Keep.

Secondly, if I've correctly deciphered the second part of your encrypted message, no I don't think they'll just launch it and say "he is the   instructions good luck". I'm saying that making a trailer of a website is a bit pointless.

But hey, maybe they will. Who knows, right?

well I do not know if  this cloud has be use save import  on any game till now so this maybe new way to put  a  save import  in to a game so they have to show how this is go to be best way to put any  save import  in to the next game  and if  they tell us that we need  the keep as  save import thing  then I like to see if this is best way of doing the  save import you know

Modifié par clone wars, 10 septembre 2013 - 03:31 .

[AlexJK]

Todd23 wrote...

It's there problem if beta testers are unaware that they're beta testers

Not really, they will invite more.

... and that those who aren't chosen are unaware that they aren't beta testers.

That doesn't sound like a problem for Bioware at all.

Seriously though, if you're worried about your spam filter catching emails from Bioware, then whitelist emails from Bioware, possibly? Not that hard.

clone wars wrote...

well I do not know if  this cloud has be use save import  on any game till now so this maybe new way to put  a  save import  in to a game so they have to show how this is go to be best way to put any  save import  in to the next game  and if  they tell us that we need  the keep as  save import thing  then I like to see if this is best way of doing the  save import you know

No, I don't know what you mean at all, sorry... :-/

Modifié par AlexJK, 10 septembre 2013 - 03:35 .

[DrIggy]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Cost as in it would take a non-trivial amount more effort to take a system that exists principally on one platform, and to fully implement it into 5 different ones.

I'm talking exclusively in manhours of work to make it work, not any sort of nebulous gains that may or may not be realized by making the system exclusively online.

I guess this depends on what is considered a non-trivial amount of time. Just reading through Bioware comments in this thread I've learned several things about the Keep project:

Two teams are working on it - a front-end team and a back-end team. Knowing this and being a programmer myself, it is reasonable for me to assume that the DA Keep project has a modular structure and consists of at least three modules:

• a front-end module which consists of web pages (UI forms) and their controllers
• a back-end module which hosts all the business logic related to world-state creation and its import into DA Inquisition.
• a common module that houses all the domain, util and other classes used by both front-end and back-end.

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if the number of modules were significantly larger than three (the back-end alone could be organized into several modules), but the main point is that this modularity should allow you to import your Keep backend into your DA Inquisition backend with little trouble (why re-implement all that logic from scratch, if it already exists?).
This means that only the in-game UI forms and their controllers need to be made from scratch and I don't think this should take more than one sprint (especially if your sprints last three weeks, but it should be doable in two). Obviously, this estimate is only a rough one and the only one I can make without knowing which technologies (i.e. programming languages and frameworks) are being used for DA Keep backend and for DA Inquisition, but still one sprint doesn't sound that bad, does it?

[AlexJK]

DrIggy wrote...

This means that only the in-game UI forms and their controllers need to be made from scratch and I don't think this should take more than one sprint (especially if your sprints last three weeks, but it should be doable in two). Obviously, this estimate is only a rough one and the only one I can make without knowing which technologies (i.e. programming languages and frameworks) are being used for DA Keep backend and for DA Inquisition, but still one sprint doesn't sound that bad, does it?

Two weeks to build a completely new UI component for the game, featuring dozens of branching choices, many with effects bubbling down to subsequent choices? I'm not saying I can't conceive of anything more complex, but that might be a bit optimistic.

Modifié par AlexJK, 10 septembre 2013 - 07:16 .

[Allan Schumacher]

This means that only the in-game UI forms and their controllers need to be made from scratch and I don't think this should take more than one sprint (especially if your sprints last three weeks, but it should be doable in two).

Just to note, I am also a programmer (that happens to work in QA). And it was other programmers that I was speaking to. Yes, we wouldn't have to completely redo everything, and the bulk of the work could possibly come down to mostly UI.

Now, even if it were to only take 1 sprint, and our sprints are 3 weeks (with iteration weeks, so basically 1 month). The current release date for the project is "Fall 2014." So that is 12-14 or so more sprints. Lets assume that we can safely work on this right until the game ships (which is impossible). You are taking about 1/12th of the development time to now work on this. This will have costs in that those people will not be working on other things.

Further, separation of specialties. The online team is the one working on this tool's front end. In other words, knowledge of things like ActionScript and so forth are not going to be necessary. Shifting it to different developers leads to a shifting of what type of expertise is necessary to implement this efficiently. And this shift only occurs if it means we STOP doing the online component, otherwise those people will need to keep chugging away there. This means that the "in game" Keep comes exclusively at the cost of work that would otherwise go into the game.

There's also additional dependencies too, as a UI artist will also need to be assigned. So looking at the things that need to be done, we'd have to evaluate whether or not we're willing to sacrifice the other stuff they'd be working on.


I do not want to cut the online component, because there are advantages for that. It'll still exist beyond DAI, we can deploy it and roll out betas independent of the game's release. It may even be possible to leverage beta data ourselves in our playthroughs and so forth. All this on top of the fact that it definitely has long term advantages in terms of reducing work in inventing the wheel. So unless we were to replace the online component, it definitely means that the UI Programmer and UI Artist (assuming that's all it takes) has to come from somewhere.


Things not really considered in this are that we can't keep adding stuff to the disc until the day before ship and whether or not platform independent issues become a large issue (a high risk factor).

[DrIggy]

Agreed on all accounts. Obviously, this would be something your guys could work on only after work on the Keep has been finished. I'm guessing you would need one or two DAI people to handle the back-end part, one DA Keep person available for an occasional consult and one UI artist and one UI programmer (I gather from your post that this is how you're organized), so yeah, at least three or four people would have to work full-time on this functionality during that sprint and one would have to be available to help them out in understanding how to use the DA Keep logic.

[TheLadyJess]

I just want to know of those of us without internet access on our consoles are going to be left out of ANY form of save importing. I guess by the look of all the posts in this thread, that is looking more and more likely. It's a shame, I was getting all excited about Inquisition.

[Thresh the Qunari]

so what do console player get?

[Daerog]

Is it possible for the Keep to create a downloadable file onto a USB that then the ps4 or xbox one DA:I games can read and import? If so, maybe a cool USB stick could come with the collector's edition?

[Clockwork_Wings]

Me, I'm hoping we can upload our saves into the Keep, edit them for consistency, save them for when all the DLC is released, and design our wardens and Hawke in the Keep accordingly for an appearance in-game...but I'm hopeful.

[Fredward]

@ Allan, so basically, the potential long term profit (as in ash, info, manhours) far outweighs any other alternative?

I'm not gonna lie. This idea sounds very close to brilliant from a business point of view. Whoever came up with it should get a raise and golden star. It still sucks for a lot of people though.

When you live in a country where 26% of the population lives on $30 a MONTH this idea sucks from a "fair" point of view. BTW I'm only using the 26% as an example, those people will never be able to afford any kind of luxury item. There are those who live above that and can afford to buy a game if they save but who won't be able to afford an internet connection. Ever. Trivialities like food and toilet paper take precedent.

And the idea I'm getting is that the devs are basically going "well... sucks to be them." #firstworlddudefistbump
Which goes against everything Bioware has been preaching. It's just... **** I don't know what it is. It's just not okay.

EDIT: The Keep is just for save states right? It'll still be possible to play the game offline? Right?

Modifié par Foopydoopydoo, 11 septembre 2013 - 05:38 .

[blussi]

Clockwork_Wings wrote...

Me, I'm hoping we can upload our saves into the Keep, edit them for consistency, save them for when all the DLC is released, and design our wardens and Hawke in the Keep accordingly for an appearance in-game...but I'm hopeful.

This.
This is exactly what I want from the Keep.

[Xiltas]

Thresh the Qunari wrote...

so what do console player get?

If I understood everything correctly, the Keep will work for consoles as well.

[lucie2188]

I have a question about the save games from Originas and DA II: Is there a way to view which choices I actually made with the different characters? I've played multiple games, e.g. a heroic Warden followed by a self-hating Mage or a selfish mean Warden followed by a nice guy Hawke, but it's been a while and I honestly can't recall the details such as who supported Bhelen and who didn't.

Of course I remember the gist of the individual stories and the main points which will probably be sufficient for the Keep, but it'd be nice to review the individual characters... I guess rewatching the Epilogue info in Origins would work for that, but is there another way? Now I wish DA had something like Mass Effect Genesis

[clone wars]

I go to keep my eyes on this

[clone wars]

will the beta test be on the pc only or will it be test on console too

[AlexJK]

clone wars wrote...

will the beta test be on the pc only or will it be test on console too

The Keep is a website, and should be accessible from any device with a web browser. If your console is internet-connected and can browse the web, then yes. (If you get invited to the beta test, of course.)

Modifié par AlexJK, 11 septembre 2013 - 10:06 .