Couldn't you have used the telemetry data to select the range of most popular choices and used those for testing? I'm not saying that those are the only ones that matter of course, only that those choices would affect the most amount of players.
Testing involves more than just the most popular choices though. It's not about making sure that "most" players get a bug-free experience and never mind the rest...
My my, I was away a long time. Any news on the Keep, when will it be available to the public?
Testing involves more than just the most popular choices though. It's not about making sure that "most" players get a bug-free experience and never mind the rest...
*Sigh* Yes, I thought I made that clear in the second half of my statement, which you completely ignored. He wrote a program specifically to randomize the choices, which itself might not have been a satisfactory method since there were still problems anyway.
Since he also said that "the alternative is to do playthroughs and build a save game library with a lot of permutations which can be time consuming," I was mainly wondering if they could have used the telemetry data, which they already have, as that already built save game library, rather than having the devs do an actual play of DAO, which I agree does seem absurd to test one import function**.
** I kind of assume that in a situation like that they might just use commands to kill all mobs and other such things to go through the game as quickly as possible. On the other hand, doing "cheats" can also mess up your game. But even if they managed to whittle the typical 50-60+ hours of DAO down to just 10, that is still way too many hours taken away from actual game development time.
*Sigh* Yes, I thought I made that clear in the second half of my statement, which you completely ignored.
No I didn't. I addressed your statement (both halves) by commenting that testing isn't about making sure "most" players have a bug-free experience - which is the only reason to test based on known or popular choices - it's about trying to ensure that *all* combinations are bug-free - in which case there is little value in starting with any particular set of choices over any other, and randomisation is a sensible option.
To answer the technical side, save files can't be generated from telemetry data, can they - that data doesn't represent all the plot variations available, hence why the Keep needs to exist at all; I believe?
You sure about that? I don't remember an official source ever saying that, just forum speculation.
Not only am I not sure, but the way I remember it the feature was being looked at, not committed to. Even if I'm right, it's no guarantee of anything.
I only mentioned it because it seems like an elegant solution to the issue and might bear further discussion.
Here's an interesting nugget: the London based Failbetter, perhaps best known for its text-based browser game Fallen London, has recent revealed the existence of a secret project for BioWare. I'm wondering if they're doing the interface for the Keep. If so, it would mean that the Keep would offer an interactive story experience tracking the first two games, and not just screen after screen of plot flag toggles.
I recall one of the devs saying that they were considering an option to download the world state from the Keep as a file that could be imported to start a game on an offline console. I assume a USB thumb drive would be involved.
I really hope they're working on something like this. It would solve the problem for me.
The only thing I remember is a video about the Keep where one of the devs said that they're aware this would be a problem for offline players and are taking it into consideration, or something to that effect. It was posted somewhere in this thread.
Just knowing for sure that they are trying to come up with a solution would be nice, even if they can't give details yet.
I really hope they're working on something like this. It would solve the problem for me.
The only thing I remember is a video about the Keep where one of the devs said that they're aware this would be a problem for offline players and are taking it into consideration, or something to that effect. It was posted somewhere in this thread.
Just knowing for sure that they are trying to come up with a solution would be nice, even if they can't give details yet.
I think it was making the worldstate online than saving to a USB drive to put in your console to read.
After learning about the Keep, I decided to do an optimum play through. I made a journal that looks like it would fit right in in Thedas (because why not?) and it contains every single decision I made, even the most trivial. You never know what might actually have significance. I can't wait to be able to use the Keep and put all of it in.
I think it was making the worldstate online than saving to a USB drive to put in your console to read.
Did BioWare actually confirm that they're working on this? Because if they did, I totally missed it and would like to see the good news for myself if anyone has a link.
After learning about the Keep, I decided to do an optimum play through. I made a journal that looks like it would fit right in in Thedas (because why not?) and it contains every single decision I made, even the most trivial. You never know what might actually have significance. I can't wait to be able to use the Keep and put all of it in.
A real handwritten journal? That's cool. I just have all my character info in a Word document, and the format I used looks closer to a roleplay profile.
At first I wasn't sure about this but the more I think of it its probably the best way to deal with importing world/universe states, plus it helps make up for developer failings such as how in DA2 you can get Isabella's romance yet the flags for the epilogue could get messed up due to romances you didn't pursue, or how Zeveran's death flag isn't properly recognized.
At first I wasn't sure about this but the more I think of it its probably the best way to deal with importing world/universe states, plus it helps make up for developer failings such as how in DA2 you can get Isabella's romance yet the flags for the epilogue could get messed up due to romances you didn't pursue, or how Zeveran's death flag isn't properly recognized.
True, but I believed it was mainly due to the fact that there was the issue of Next-Gen that Bioware switched to this approach rather than save imports.
So am I wrong, or has it been over two months since the first and last wave of invites went out? * Trying really hard to work on my patience... Honest! *
What I'd like to know is the defaults the Keep will use. We know Dalish Elf woman and Ultimate Sacrifice, but what of the others?
What I'd like to know is the defaults the Keep will use. We know Dalish Elf woman and Ultimate Sacrifice, but what of the others?
I think this is the only default for Origins, and DA2's default is a mage Hawke who sided with the mages.
I think this is the only default for Origins, and DA2's default is a mage Hawke who sided with the mages.
Thank the Maker we'll be able to change those.
I'm pretty sure the keep won't have defaults. Those would probably exist solely on the game disk so you can play without accessing the keep.
Yeah, if you start a game and elect not to use the Keep, the game will use a default world state. I don't see why there'd be defaults within the Keep itself, though. It's all player-customisable.
I wonder how a Mage Hawke that sides with the Templars will look in Inquisition, loved that playthrough of DA2 because it was hilarious during the cutscenes
Thank the Maker we'll be able to change those.
Well, since the Keep is online and my consoles are offline... I won't be able to unless BioWare comes up with a solution.
I'm pretty sure the keep won't have defaults. Those would probably exist solely on the game disk so you can play without accessing the keep.
That's what I meant, actually.
It would be a pain to create multiple states if you have to manually input every single choice, every single time?Yeah, if you start a game and elect not to use the Keep, the game will use a default world state. I don't see why there'd be defaults within the Keep itself, though. It's all player-customisable.
Well, presumably it's only a relatively smaller proportion of players who have loads and loads of worldstates that they want to import - for many people they'll only do it once or twice, you'd think. It might be a pain to set up the Keep with your choices again and again, but it's not like every player is going to do that.
(After all, having a dozen different playthroughs is highly, highly unusual in terms of the overall player-base - particularly when about half the players don't finish the game once.)
I dunno, I'm kind of looking forward to sitting down and entering every tiny detail of my world states. The Keep should be out before the game is actually released, so I figure I can get it all out of the way one afternoon before the game actually hits and then never have to worry about it again.
(After all, having a dozen different playthroughs is highly, highly unusual in terms of the overall player-base - particularly when about half the players don't finish the game once.)
Yeah. I mean, I'm a devoted fanatic who has played the game far more often than is typical - or, indeed, sensible - and I still only have eight world states to input. (Six that are complete, one currently in progress, and one I have no intention of actually playing through.)
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