676 réponses à ce sujet

[andysks]

Hi all.

I have a question for people who might read this thread.
Sinec the moment I started building this on a custom setting, I have been building the world where the campaign is based on. This has been going on through the process of building the mods, since some things just come to mind as I build. Anyways, Today I did this, as a placeholder map to give me a good idea on where everything is.



It took me 30 secs on Gimp, the last version will be more beautiful of course. The campaign I build now, takes place North West in Helandrith. The rest... is just lore, and to give the impression that the player plays on a part of a big world. Also, for future mods of course. I will release this map together with the campaign.
The question is, how many people are like me when it comes to stuff like that? What I mean is: Will people look at Thedas map on Dragon Age, to see where Ferelden actually is, and when they hear about the Antiva Crows, to see where this is? Will you search a Faerun Map(if never played there much), to see where Rashemen is when Minsc talks about it? Or to see where Icewind Dale is related to Luscan? Or let's say, you play Skyrim and hear about the origin of redguards, same thing.
I ask this, because many times I find myself browsing through RPG maps, looking where everything I played in is. I like it. And I think, Ah, that's what the companion comes from. It also makes me anticipate the next part of the given RPG game, on a new location of a well made world. On this case, I think it also shows some more effort from my side on developing this campaign .

So, please give me your thoughts. I will release it anyway. Make it because I just want to. I just want to know how people feel about such things.

[ColorsFade]

When it comes to D&D, I tend to look at maps very infrequently to see where things lie in relation to each other, but only when my curiosity is piqued. As an example, when Minsc said he was from Rashemon, I looked that up to see where it was. And Waterdeep, because it is referenced quite a bit in various games, I looked that up one day.

But most of the time, I am only concerned with the map that the game shows. I always assume there is a wider world out there, but if the game doesn't take place in that wider world, and the game map doesn't show it, then it's not relevant to my current situation, and I don't much care about it.

[andysks]

That's exactly what I meant. Give it together with the release, as a bonus. Don't think that when I play BG I always have a Faerun map open. Of course not. Just when the curiosity hits . I also looked at the Faerun map recently to see where your mod is based.

[PJ156]

I like to look at maps. The prettier the better IMO, so if there is one to look at I will pour over it for as long as it holds my attention ... In this respect, the prettier the better, did I say that already

PJ

Modifié par PJ156, 30 janvier 2014 - 11:55 .

[kevL]

yep, I look at maps.

and i'd certainly like this sort of thing as a break from rego hack&slash

[andysks]

It's nice to see more people feel like me on the matter. The prettier the better of course . I don't want though to make it colored, but old paper, black lines. Of course there are techniques to make such a map in photoshop, where I also made the map where the story is based. I just have to figure out how to properly attach the already made part of the world, to the bigger one. This could be tricky. I thought, a solution would be to print the image, hand drawn the outlines and continue from there.

[Dann-J]

Rather than black ink, I'd go for sepia tones to match the aged look of the old paper. A few wrinkles and fold lines, with perhaps a torn corner or a few slits in the edges, would complete the antique feel.

Just don't go overboard and turn it into a pirate map cliche! How pirates always managed to burn the edges of a map completely, without setting fire to the rest of it, was always a mystery to me.

[PJ156]

Could you make the map by hand then copy it to jpg?

[Arkalezth]

I like having a map for reference too.

[andysks]

DannJ, this is the map used in the story on the material plane now.



I am quite satisfied with the result. I might add some locations, and rivers too. And make the road with dots or lines, instead of one line.
The question was how to place this empire at the north west of a big world. I think I will make the whole thing by hand, trying to copy the outlines of this one where it needs to be. Then add it as a layer to photoshop. Could work I guess...

[Arkalezth]

andysks wrote...

The question was how to place this empire at the north west of a big world.

Well, if the rest of the world is mentioned in dialogues and such, it's good to have a visual reference. Just don't spend too much time working on it.

[andysks]

Nah, I guess it will take me a day or something. It's gonna be good for me too, since sometimes I mention things on books or so, and I would like to have some solid reference of what I am talking about, instead of just imagination and what comes to mind at that particular moment I am writing.
The work will also be fast, because all these mountains and forests are actually photoshop brushes. Pretty neat.
The general idea came one of these last days, where I was writing a convo of a dwarf crafting master type of guy. In Helandrith there is no dwarven tribe. They all come from the east. So, I had an option on asking this guy about the east, his tribe, reasons for being in Helandrith... and I thought it would be nice to have this map for mentioning same names sometimes, and for reference. Also, who knows. In the future I might want to do another mod on NWN2, I could use the same world but another empire. This is far of course .

[rjshae]

I love fantasy maps! Spent way too much time making them, and I really enjoy seeing them as a reference in novels. Your example above looks great. It's got a nice hand-drawn feel to it. Not sure it really needs much more.

Modifié par rjshae, 31 janvier 2014 - 10:15 .

[andysks]

rjshae wrote...

I love fantasy maps! Spent way too much time making them, and I really enjoy seeing them as a reference in novels. Your example above looks great. It's got a nice hand-drawn feel to it. Not sure it really needs much more.

Thanks Bob. It might not need, since one has to think about the map points as well, which fill some of the surface. There are 15 so far, and could reach 20ish regarding the material plane story line. So maybe it's not worth putting more work time on that, it's true.

Have you made these maps? They look really nice. May I ask the purpose? Or just for the fun of it? I remember back in the days of my p&p sessions, I would handraw the map, deep it in water with coffee, and burn the edges a bit. Then give it to the players. They were happy .

Once the story goes to outlands there will be no world travel. But when the player reaches Hades, I'd like to put some time on world travel again. I was thinking of a dark map, featuring the layers of the plane, something weirder than a landscape map. Something that would seem more like the fade or Deep Roads in Dragon Age,

Modifié par andysks, 01 février 2014 - 07:13 .

[rjshae]

Having a hand-drawn look to map point additions would be a pretty nice effect, although I'd imagine it would be a fair amount of work.

The maps I mostly did for fun. I was into world-building for a good while.

[andysks]

Journal Update

New working hours are brutal...

Having to work from 5:00 in the morning to 13:00 takes a while to get used to. Waking up at 3:00, means falling to bed earlier than my granpa. Progress has been delayed because of that. There are days now that I won't even open the toolset, but I have found other ways to add some work to the campaign.
I would grab a piece of paper at work, and note down important story states that a certain companion will have something special to say about when you meet back to the hangout.
I would also note down quest ideas, rewards and locations. Stuff like that.

There was no possible way for me to continue on Chapter 1 like this, so whenever I open the toolset now, I choose to do minor corrections on previous areas, or fixing bugs that I know off but never fixed.

Dragon Age

We finished Dragon Age Origins, incredible ending I think. We chose to give Morigan a baby, since we fell in love with Alistar and didn't want him to die. It was clear that the other Warden (forgot his name), would die earlier than the Archdemon, so between our character and Alistar, a little blood magic was tolerated .
It was so impressive that I saw so many side quest mentions during the ending ring dialogue. Just how many possible endings this game had? Except the kill the boss, someone has to die or send Morigan with a baby I mean. The ring dialogue is crazy. You actually feel like many things you did had impact on the ending. Awesome feeling.

Back to the Campaign

I am waiting on a script by Tchos at the moment, which will track more than 4 types of creatures killed. This will let me complete a new side quest that I added to the prologue. This one is added early, but completes really late, since the PC has to find locations all over the world in order to complete it. Once the script is done, I will give the prologue to PJ one more time to test the new additions since he played it... and they are a lot.

A screenshot question

I take screenshots from the toolsets using greenshot as kamal mentioned somewhere. It is easy and saves quite some time. These screens will serve as chapter change dialogues and loadscreens. I noticed however that some of them were really bad quality. Did I do something wrong? Or the toolset will never give quality graphics the way in game will? I fixed them in photoshop, but the job could be less if the picture was not so bad.

So, it is going slow at the moment. Until I get used to sleeping so early, and dividing my free time to spend some on the campaign. Until next update.

[Tchos]

By default, the toolset's rendering resolution is very low. You can increase it in the options menu, by manually entering width and height resolutions.

The script should be done in a few days.

[andysks]

Thanks and Thanks Tchos .

[andysks]

Journal Update

Got some work done on my free time. Script worked, thanks to Tchos again. Funny thing, showing how rusty I got. It is supposed to be an OnDeath script, and I just couldn't make it work. Only after hours of trying diferent stuff I saw that the NPC still had the default death script.
Anyway, it worked and the quest is starting now from the prologue. I think the last of the 7 creatures will be found around the end of the material plane story.

Then I thought, I should create one encounter for these assassins who chase down the PC. It's happening during a world map travel. If the PC has the rogue or ranger companion with, he might be able to prepare better for the ambush. The assassins were a bit sloppy covering their tracks.

But what I love in the way I am building this big campaign, is that even if I have a plan, there is always new stuff coming as I build, and I have no hesitation to use them. For example, I thought, why shouldn't the ambush leader beg for her life, or even become a companion? Given the fact that you spare her life of course. So here is the new adition to the roster. Misha.



I don't know how wise it is to let her join, given the fact she was hired to kill you, but still. She has an interesting story behind her... and she is going to be a really closed book. I think she will be tough to handle, or tust. Romance option on the way .

[OfficerDonNZ]

Oooh... Talk about taking your life in your hands. And if you're making Misha romanceble, well sounds like a challenge to me

Like her outfit. It looks like the female vampire outfit if I'm not mistaken.

[andysks]

I think it is yes. It's actually the Shar's Garb... or something like that from Aleane's pack. But I think the model is the vampire's yes. There is a quest later on the material plane with vampires included... you might have spotted something there . As I said, she is a mysterious woman.

[Tchos]

The trouble with that outfit as it's supplied is that the specularity is much too high. It's not particularly noticeable in this screenshot, but in full lighting in-game, it causes it to look grey or white instead of a shiny black. I've been meaning to adjust the specular map, but haven't gotten around to it.

[andysks]

Journal Update

 

• So many quests...

That's right. When I started creating this, I had no idea how many quests will gather. But having one big city serving as a capital, another city after that where elves live, another city after this one and one more serving for a side quest, but having its own side quests of course as well. So each city needs population. Different, depending on the theme. And the quests as well should be around that mostly. So, here's what it looks like.

 

Cor'Duer: This is the main city of the empire. Here is a bit diferrent, since many districts exist. On the main living district there are the every day people, who might give all kinds of quests. On the slums, the PC needs to deal = co-operate/go against the local thug groups, and of course get deep in coruption and misery of the life in the slums. On the royal gardens, we have the pretentious ones who have no idea of what's going on in the rest of the world. On the last one, I had most trouble finding quest themes.

 

Dryntal: This one is the one and only city where elves live in the empire. Deep inside the forest, xenophobic and secretive. Masters of magic and former masters of plane traveling. Plenty of quest ideas here.

 

Kelech-Mor: The desert city, merchant city. Here I have placed around 10 merchants who all sell various items from around the world. Offering some lore as well regarding the place they bring these goods from. Of course, the city being in a desert, offers a lot of quest ideas.

 

Vrist: The city of slavery and dictatorship. Dangerous place, but good people still live there. Options for both ways of alignment.

 

So the general quest idea, comes around cities. But what else? I am torn with the OC, where almost all side quests where found on the way of the main one. On one hand, you make sure the player stays on track. But on the other, it's quite linear for my taste. Of course, in NWN2 one needs to have fixed creatures. Meaning that in the OC, the devs knew that when you fight the Orcs, or the lizardfolk, you were ready for them and the loot appropriate. I chose to leave this on player judgement mostly. All areas that are once visited from the world map, will be open for later visit. Except if for some reason I need to lock it(for plot). So here's the conclusion of this.

 

When the PC arrives in an area, let's say city since there are most of the quests based, he will be able to accept them all. No control there. I don't want to control this. If he wants to just go through the main quest, he is free to do so. But the free quest advances in stages of 4-5 levels. In some point, the player will find things too hard, and think "maybe I should do some side quests back there". This is my idea of the open world theme. I would like to hear opinions on this.

 

This only brings two problems, both very solvable. One is that I need to be careful on the xp rewards of the side quests. If the player is level 10 and decides to go back for a side quest and gets 100 xp he might feel it was a waste of time. But if he does this quest at level 4 and he gets 500... it's ridiculous. This is not really a problem, since many games are like that. Even in WoW I remember sometimes I missed a quest and then it was green. I did it nonetheless just for the fun.

The other "problem", is more of a question of taste. Should I give clues to the player about the side quest level range, or not. Should the journal write something like: "For level 5-7". I don't really like how easy games have been nowadays, what with all the markers and what not, but if the people playing find the clues needed, then they have to be added.

 

So these are my thoughts on managing the big cities and the side quests, as well as the open world idea. Feedback on this will be much appreciated. My journal has some 30 entries and I'm not even half way done. It will be best if I decide how to manage the two problems above before it's all done .

 

• History Feats

This is more of a need to announce to myself officially that the trouble I had understanding the custom feat system is now gone. I managed to create my first feats. There will be a lot by the end, but not all available to be awarded. Some will block other ones and so on. Big thanks to KevL, Morgane, and Lance Botelle for the precious info on this. Also to Tchos for the ga_ script to award ability score boosts and skill ranks.

[kevL]

... I need to be careful on the xp rewards of the side quests. If the player is level 10 and decides to go back for a side quest and gets 100 xp he might feel it was a waste of time. But if he does this quest at level 4 and he gets 500... it's ridiculous. This is not really a problem, since many games are like that. Even in WoW I remember sometimes I missed a quest and then it was green. I did it nonetheless just for the fun.

don't forget you can do things like,

awardedXP = 50 * GetCharacterLevel;


that is, adjust the XP by characterLevel, or use characterLevel to set caps, like

if (charLevel > 10) return; // no XP


or

if (charLevel > 5)
awardedXP += charLevel * 100; // boosts XP after level 5



/shake&bake

[rjshae]

For an open world, something you can do on the OM is tune the hidden sites with the Search skill; a low level party would likely also have a low Search skill and so would fail to find the high level sites even with a take-20 roll. You could also do a Survival skill check in case the party doesn't put points in Search.