676 réponses à ce sujet

[andysks]

All this fxe and wav and pairing is so alien to me. But I guess it shouldn't be THAT hard to make it. And probably once I do one, the others follow easily . Thanks a lot again. Time to play Islander maybe?

[Tchos]

I see voicing as an unwanted and unnecessary thing, and accurate lip-sync even less necessary.  I'm going to be reading the text, not even looking at the lips, and skipping past when I'm done reading, so they won't get to finish speaking their lines. 

 

Meanwhile, those voice files and lip sync animation files are going to be sitting on my hard drive.  I expect fully half of the space occupied by the 15GB+ modern games I have installed are occupied by all these voices.

[Eguintir Eligard]

Its really not hard andy. I am like the most useless for out of toolset work and I did it. Your fxe files will be generated by the program based on the wav file you have.

When done, you throw them all in one folder, probably your hak just so it's out of your face when you upload the game, but campaign etc also works. No 2das even (those I hate the most of non toolset work).

 

But wisdom is to keep it to a minimum as a lot of excessive work can pile up. I recommend only major cut scenes (re: 1 per chapter) and maybe the first line of a companion chat, assuming they aren't frequent. And a voice set for your companion will be needed as well.

 

But believe you me, do this last. This is on the extreme end of the "polish" category, so you want your game done and dried before you go this route, as you may not even have the appetite once you get going with it. Doing it at the start is just a recipe for scope creep disaster... you are now all but forced to continue doing so for the entire game if you do one chapter that way.

 

Also, when you apply the first line only approach, people don't miss any of your voicings when they start clicking ahead in a complex conversation.

[kamal_]

I see voicing as an unwanted and unnecessary thing, and accurate lip-sync even less necessary.  I'm going to be reading the text, not even looking at the lips, and skipping past when I'm done reading, so they won't get to finish speaking their lines. 

 

Meanwhile, those voice files and lip sync animation files are going to be sitting on my hard drive.  I expect fully half of the space occupied by the 15GB+ modern games I have installed are occupied by all these voices.

At least one modern "triple A" game stores all it's audio uncompressed, and includes the audio for all supported languages. Apparently it's an anti-piracy tactic by the studio, making the game a huge download to discourage pirates.

[ColorsFade]

I'm with Tchos on this one. I read prety fast; faster than the voice acting for sure. On a player-made mod, I just want to read at my own, comfortable pace and then be able to click through each line of dialog (thus I try really hard not to set any min lengths on my own conversations). 

 

I've been playing some Skyrim lately, when time permits, and OMG... the voice acting for Hermaeus Mora and the Augur of Dunlain... the speech is SO SLOW and you CANNOT CLICK THROUGH IT! I want to strangle the devs for that one. 

 

I tried the lip flappers on my prologue. First play testing session, I realized how useless they were; I'm reading, not looking at the lips. They got removed. They're entirely too much work for zero return. Time is better spent making areas look good, or making quests. 

[Tchos]

Apparently it's an anti-piracy tactic by the studio, making the game a huge download to discourage pirates.

 

Bah, that wouldn't work.  Pirates are very good at stripping out unnecessary resources and repackaging things with new installers.  Anti-piracy measures inconvenience nobody except legitimate customers.  I'd be more forgiving to the company to think the huge download size is just a mistake.

[Eguintir Eligard]

In my own unbiased self-only opinion, if you dudes are lip flapping out of synch, it looks like trash, in the most unflattering variety.

 

Personally I say stick to NWN1 style conversations anyway... most mods seem to have (well maybe only 51%) but believe me it looks a lot better than your charly chaplain movies that you think are so cinematic... silent staring contests certainly are not. We've all seen every NPC and PC face style 1000 times. Voice it, or NWN1 it is my bid.

[Tchos]

Don't worry, EE, mine aren't out of sync, because there is no lip flapping, and all of the conversations are SoZ style (which is better than NWN1 style).

[andysks]

I am still thinking of it... and of course will be the last thing to do. I was thinking companions at least. A voice set maybe...

Tchos has a point. My problem is when I reload, I have to click through the convo fast and all I hear is "I", "Wi", "To th", "You hav"... well this is annoying yes.

The Dao flappers now... are scrapped. I tried them, didn't like them. Good resource for some... but it's a matter of personal style I guess.

 

I generally try to have cinematics for when the PC is not even present. Like "Meanwhile somewhere else" situations, and really major dialogues. Like if there is a trial or a first entry to a city or someone needs to kill someone. Tchos did it out of cutscenes, with some heartbeats. It looks awesome. The NPC performs the cinematic actions... but in real time out of convo. However such methods are out of my league . And I actually enjoy a cutscene once in a while. As for the voices again... when the time comes we'll see how many I'll do . It's far away for now.

[Tchos]

One of the things that pulled me out of my immersion in the OC was when I was shown cutscenes where my character was not present.  I was being given extra-character knowledge (information that I as a player know, but which my character should not know).

[PJ156]

My preference is for a mix of the two systems NWN 2 and 1 without lip flappers or sound.

The cutscenes are just key notes for the most part anyway. The text is read but people move on quickly anyway so "over animated" scenes are not worth the time anyways. For me a cut scene says "this is important, take the time to read it because I am trying to tell you something or engage with you". NWN and SoZ convos (without tchos' UI) are small on the screen and for me, if the text you have to read requires that you scroll down then you are trying to convey too much information and you are going to lose the player. In either format I try to use no more than 100 words per line of text, let the journal (when it works) convey detailed information and the convo the basics. I use those to say, here is a place to communicate with your environment, often times the information may be important but not plot critical or it may just be discussing the weather.

Very occasionally I use a cutscene to support the story in the third person. I agree with Tchos about immersion but, used sparingly and with thought, it can also be a powerful tool for building background without involving the PC in a lengthy description.

I am in two minds about SoZ convo's. They bring in the skills of the whole p[arty so they very much support tactical play but from a role playing perspective I prefer to have the npc's interject when they are ready to and leave the PC to roleplay the principle parts. I may have taken that too far in the latest module but time and testing will tell.

PJ

[Eguintir Eligard]

You may actually want to try Islander as you suggested... and you have my full blessing to mega cheat to do so just to see the cinematics.

 

People complained about several things in there but nobody complained about the voicings and many thought it was one of the best features.

When it came to voicings, at least, I feel like I did a great job of doing them as a player and not as an author. That is to say, I put myself in the players shoes.

 

Players aren't as in love with every hard-made minute of game play you create as you are. Thus I was quite aware most would click through my scenes or be

annoyed if they were too long and wordy. There was one and only one full on cinematic scene and that was right as you enter chapter 3. And it was to reveal

your true origin, so it was a fairly signifigant one. In about 10 to 15 hours of game play I can tell you how much voicing went on pretty much by heart, and a little rule to live by with each

 

• Opening cut scene between two hooded strangers (synched mouths, faces were shadowed, and no one said more than two sentences per node, 30 second scene total... draws the player in right away without being verbose)
• The very first talk with your father (first two lines and last line only NWN1 style)
• Major companions had 3 triggered chats each (again first line, and last line only, NWN1 style)
• 3 cut scenes you have at the inn when resting. Companions banter back and forth. They were NWN2 style but a lot were overhead shots, and then mixed in with close ups with lips moving
• Two heroic dreams (NWN2 style, and only 5 to 10 lines total)
• The final conversation with the end boss was voiced of course, in NWN1 style and it was quite brief
• Companion voice sets... really only need to use about half of the slots and the rest you can leave blank since they will rarely if ever be used (think again, reducing work for you and your voice actor)

 

You may wish to add a voice for other major "bosses"... most of mine were creatures. However keep a tight reign on the definition of major... not every angry necromancer with 2 to 3 followers is a "major" character.

 

 

 

Note that NWN1 style can mean SOZ style as well... the point is... not a cut scene.

Thats all the voicing I did and it covered a prelude, 3 chapters, and about 4-5 hours of game each chapter

 

I will take a criticism of my own work here... the voicing largely disappeared for I guess what you would call the final third of the game. That's my own fault for being inconsistent though... all companion talks were early on then stopped. That's a lack of polish thats on me. Do as I say not as I do I guess, haha.

[Eguintir Eligard]

Oh wait forgot, there was one more chapter 3 with your main mandatory companion, where she reveals her nature. Fully voiced, and I believe she had about ten lines. Very cinematic and romantic on the night time beach under the stars. Wasn't even a romance scene but her great voice made it so gripping.

[andysks]

Well, it's a matter of taste with the cutscenes. Tchos I know how you feel about them . The ones where you get information even if the PC is not around... I tend to like them. Plus all the games I loved had them. From BG to Dragon Age. Some did it more, some less. Perhaps the OC overdid it yes. But I didn't mind in Dragon Age where I learned that the Antivan Crows are coming for me... because they didn't just bring Zevran in front of you. You got tricked by the lady and then when he appeared you think "Oh this guy". It's ok I think. Also cutscenes in the style of Leliana's song at the camp I enjoyed. My general rule is: Important convos and convos where I want people to perform some actions are cinematics. Simple side quests, merchants and generally convos where skills might be used are NWN1 or SOZ. I try to have all.

 

EE: Thanks for the insight, but honestly I won't cheat. If I play it I play the whole thing. The voices will just be there for a looksie .

[kevL]

Well, it's a matter of taste with the cutscenes. Tchos I know how you feel about them . The ones where you get information even if the PC is not around... I tend to like them. Plus all the games I loved had them. From BG to Dragon Age. Some did it more, some less. Perhaps the OC overdid it yes.

 

I found that, breaking the 4th wall or whatever you want to call it, jarring in the OC. it was always, ".. am i looking at??"
 
i think it would have been better if a literal cue of somesort had popped up, preferably as a gui-box to stress 'hey we're going meta here, brb'
 
 
just a verbal notice like, "Somewhere in Neverwinter castle ..."

[kevL]

...

5. Choose randomly

 

 

/ok, will shuddup

[Tchos]

Note that NWN1 style can mean SOZ style as well...

 

It would be clearer and more helpful to distinguish between them, especially for the sake of tutorials and when people who might not know the difference may be reading this.  If you tell someone to use NWN1-style dialogues in their work, they'll probably use the "Neverwinter Nights 1-style Dialogue" property.  My SoZ style dialogues have that property set to false.  The "PartyChat" property (SoZ style party chat) is the only one that needs to be set to true.

[Eguintir Eligard]

I don't need to distinguish between them for the sake of voicing and that's all I was commenting on.

[andysks]

Not fully done yet but this is what I was talking about in a previous post. Arkalezth said I shouldn't spend much time on it, but this took my only 1 hour with the correct brushes on photoshop. Needs some work still of course . Like the smoothing of outlines, lakes rivers, city and location names etc.

 

[rjshae]

That looks good. Most of the coastline seems a little too heavy, but otherwise the quality is nice.