676 réponses à ce sujet

[andysks]

Before

 

 

and after

 

 

Still some thing need to be done of course. Repopulate, finish the textures etc etc. But I think the difference on the quality is pretty much clear.

[PJ156]

That's a really nice looking area. Lots of change in height and plenty to explore without being too big and difficult to populate.

 

I like the houses over the water but I have a few questions that you might want to answer in the text or the model itself.

 

What happens when the weather gets rough, is the port protected?

What's it like a low tide, that place is going to stink since the sea is going to be where all the rubbish goes?

 

There looks to be some tight camera spots there between houses. That's okay it those areas are for exploring but might get comments if they are the may way across the map.

 

PJ 

[andysks]

The port will be closed a bit so it is protected yes. The houses over water no. It's where the poorest people live, and some thug gangs... they have to deal with it when the tide comes . I really wanted a stinky spot there. No future for these people. Sad... but we'll see. Maybe the PC will help some .

As for the camera... I know. It's one sacrifice I had to make in order to bring the tight stinky feeling of the place. I tested it though... it's not that bad. Only a couple spots where it goes nuts, change to another mode for a few steps and then fine again. It's only two or three homes there to visit anyway... should be bearable.

[Tchos]

I've stayed in somewhere on stilts right by the sea where the toilet went straight into a massive fish pond full of crabs and fish [...]  The owners of the place even had a restaurant that specialised in fish from the pond ! Needless to say I didn't eat any after I saw what happened when you flushed the toilet.

 

Gah!  I wouldn't, either!

[andysks]

Who would.... .

[PJ156]

Hah, I visited Porto in Northern Portugal a decade or so back and there the fish by the sewer outfall were so thick in the water they kept coming out of the water and flapping about on the backs of the other fish till they could get to the outside of the shoal and back into the water.

 

People were fishing in this with rod and line! One guys bait I saw did not even get in the water it just sat on the backs of the mass of fish.

 

The more sensible fisher men just used a shovel and a bucket.

 

I avoided fish off the menu while I was there too

 

PJ

[Tchos]

Now I'll have to question where the watercress I buy is grown, too!

[rjshae]

Hah, I visited Porto in Northern Portugal a decade or so back and there the fish by the sewer outfall were so thick in the water they kept coming out of the water and flapping about on the backs of the other fish till they could get to the outside of the shoal and back into the water.

 

People were fishing in this with rod and line! One guys bait I saw did not even get in the water it just sat on the backs of the mass of fish.

 

The more sensible fisher men just used a shovel and a bucket.

 

I avoided fish off the menu while I was there too

 

PJ

 

One way or another, we're all just eating recycled poo.

[Tchos]

It's not just poo that comes out of sewers.  People flush a lot of things that you wouldn't want becoming a part of your food, such as drugs, cleaning supplies, etc.

[rjshae]

How true...

 

[andysks]

They had this in Futurama, the whole situation. In year 3000, where the sewers have become a waste land filled with mutated... people. These people actually live by the stuff the above normal people throw in the toilet. Like a guy couldn't play his guitar before someone flushed a new string for him. This is nothing compared to the waste of course, but I think they wanted to make a metaphor or something.

[rjshae]

So we'd be safer living in your houses on stilts in the sea.. How much is the rent ?

 

You might have to find somebody to float you a loan...

[andysks]

Journal Update

 

Decorating and making the new dock/slums area is going well. NPCs seem to follow my orders, except when they need to shovel. But will figure this out eventually. In any case, I like how the area turns out. There are many details around, like people betting, drinking, passed out, screaming at each other etc. On every corner one might see a situation that makes the area alive.

 

Except that, I decided to make some parts of quests class orientated. What I mean is, that through the campaign there will be 3 dialogue styles. Cutscene, NWN1 and SoZ party chat. There will be some quests, that the NPC will have a NWN1 dialogue. Then for example the if the PC needs something from the NPC, he will have options to:

 

Persuade him

Steal

Kill

 

Persuade will start a new conversation in SoZ style where the whole party will try to bombard with conversation skills.

Kill will have two option. Battle or assassinate. Assassinate will happen through convo in the form of a DM narration.

And steal is where the class of the PC comes to play. Here's how I thought it.

 

If the PC is a rogue, or has required Sleght of Hand ranks, he can choose to try and steal it himself. If not, he can say to one of his rogue companions to do it. If a companion does it, DM narration comes again describing how he does it. But if the PC does it himself, a whole bunch of options open.

 

Pretend you are crazy

Pretend you are drunk

Fall onto him and put your hands in his right pocket

etc.

Leading to success or failure.

 

This way I think people playing certain classes will get something extra, not just an additional quest, but whole gameplay. Will make one wonder, how would it be if I was a fighter for example, and tried to brawl myself against this guy? Adding replay value to the campaign. Plus, I like using a DM named ipoint whenever I can for NWN1 style dialogues, and of course the whole idea of this style of quest comes from p&p and the old text based video games.

[andysks]

My musings on side quests.

 

Yesterday as I was sitting waiting for the world cup game to begin, I turned to my girlfriend and said: "Do you have any ideas for side quests?" What followed was a long talk, not only with ideas, but also as to how they are initiated, completed, reflected in the world etc. Here is some of the things that came out. There might be more to this, but this is just what we talked about and I share.

 

• Initiation

One has a variety of ways to initiate a quest.

1. An NPC in the form of a cutscene comes to you and asks for help
2. An NPC that is labelled with a name and not just commoner, is most normally someone who might give a quest
3. Events (Finding an item, run into a situation etc.)

So far, most of my side quests on the prologue and chapter 1 are given through NPCs. In any possible way. I thought that events should come soon, because by the end there will be many side quests, and if all are given through NPCs it will be extremely boring. So the three possible introductions to a quest have their good and bad aspects.

 

A cutscene NPC, gives the feeling of distress. He sees a group in armor, and asks for help. All is fine, but if all quests are like that, then the player thinks, am I the only adventurer around here? All these people wait for ME before they talk to someone? What about the Guards, or a friend? So these situations have to happen, but with balance.

 

A named NPC, is someone who needs help, but not in a hurry. And most probably, he will not lead the conversation to the quest from the start. So an NPC like that, cannot say "My friend is held captive! Help!" If your friend is captive, why you sit in the tavern waiting from me to talk to you? So these people will give quests, but not the stressful kind of. Heard some rumors etc, and if the PC feels like following he is free to do so.

 

Now come the events. This was my main concern, because when I move the party to Hopeless in Outlands and in Hades, where everyone is apathetic and depressed, it might be harder and harder to find a person in need for help. He just doesn't care anymore. These types of quests are my favorites.

They go like that

 

1. The party finds some pages of a journal scattered all over town.
2. There is a building on fire, that never seems to die out.
3. etc.

These are events that the party might, or not run into during the travels. They spark curiosity. And the group is going to need to investigate a bit in order to find what's behind, instead of some one telling them "Go there, bring me this".

 

All these methods can be connected. A rumor from a placed NPC, can lead you to the others. And of course an event, can lead you to a damsel in distress.

 

• Once in the quest

I need to try and make the NPCs or places associated with the quest as remarkable as possible. I will explain later why. I don't want the player to forget about it once the reward is given. But in general, this is where the pure imagination comes. Giving the facts, providing answers, interesting fights, rewards etc.

 

• Completion

A quest can be completed by talking back to the NPC who gave it to you, or by solving the situation. Solving the situation, provides difficulties in rewarding. So boss fights may come in hand here, because they generally have loot, and no-one needs to give you that heirloom as a reward. If for example you find an abandoned house used by a serial killer, the survivor, if any, will hardly have nothing on him most likely. So maybe the maniac/boss has, or you find a chest where he stores the captive's belongings, or maybe the survivor tells you he will reward you in the future. Adding a world map travel encounter there with him in the future.

Once a quest is completed, the NPC, most of the times will not get lost. He may appear again. Sometimes for humor, putting himself in tough situations all the time, or generally to make the world feel alive. I want the PC to care about the people he helps or dooms. And if he meets them more times it's easier to happen.

 

Based on how the quest turned out, the NPC will have of course a different opinion for the PCs. And this might come handy for NPCs that die, because when really later the party will visit the Underworld in Hades, might see some of them again.

 

Also, once the quest is completed, variables might get set. I loved Dragon Age, where in the end you see how the lives of different people you were associated with turned out. I will try and do something like that. Feel the consequences of your actions. See if what you did mattered. The world doesn't start and stop with the story played.

 

There is of course more to side quests than one can imagine. In my opinion, it's one of the most important aspects of an RPG, since I, as a player will most likely try first to do every single side quest before proceeding with the main plot. I cannot possibly write everything we talked about last night, and there are still many thought around the matter. If any of you has some, please share. There can never be enough of material on this.

[Eguintir Eligard]

 

I turned to my girlfriend and said: "Do you have any ideas for side quests?" What followed was a long talk...

 

 

I ain't gonna lie, I saw that long talk going very differently for you...

[andysks]

Heh, what do we mean by that? .

[PJ156]

There's a lot of interesting stuff there, the class related convo stuff will be good if you can keep it consistent. I think it might be better in a sandbox than a story mod though otherwise it could become a distraction. Bad deeds have consequences when they go wrong as well. Do you think you will implement some form of crime and punishment system.

 

As for quests I like what you wrote and will read again later when I can see a little better.

 

My added thoughts are that quests do not need to come from npc's. They could come form a scroll or book discovered in a dusty loft. A strange symbol carved on a brick in a building which means something to to the PC. A dog disappears down an alley that the PC knows is blind and does not come back out. A short investigation shows a secret/small door. I am not putting this down because I have used many such ways of presenting quests, just because you have got me thinking about it.

 

Sorry if you have already written on this and I missed it. It is early early here and, of all the doors in the house, the fridge door is the one that got opened and closed the most last night  

 

PJ 

[andysks]

PJ, I missed my own thread to be honest. I completely overlooked Tsongos comment, and I have to say it's pretty good. It gave me the idea that I could add landmarks, which will give some xp if you find them, and if you find them all you could get a feat, or something. It could even be a twisted treasure hunt set by a demi-god or whatever, and the landmarks are the clues.

 

PJ, you have only played my prologue, which is linear. After that it becomes kind of sandbox. BG style. Do all side quests if you will, and no-one will rush you on completing the main quest. These class dialogues, will not be very often. Just for the fun of it. The result will be the same if you ask your rogue companion to steal, or if as a rogue you choose to do it yourself. But I find it as a reward let's say to the person who chose to play a rogue. Also, kind of like an eastern egg. You might play the game 10 times, see everything, and on the 11th you play a rogue and see something more.

[andysks]

Journal Update

 

Much work has been done during the past days. The side quest I was working on, even if it existed in the previous slums/docks area it needed some rework. The way it is now, it has 5 possible endings on 3 conversation that share 10.000 words. Really exited about this quest. It is so far one of my favorites. Now it only needs to be completed with rewards and xp and I move to other stuff.

 

For every thing I add in my ToDo list, 3 get crossed out. This is good. And once I am pretty much done with this area, I will ship it to some people for testing. This time the test will include the prologue plus chapter 1 and 2, which by some fast calculations should be around 12-15 hours. I am really excited about this, because so far the beta has been only through the prologue. It will be interesting to see how people think of the sand-box style that takes place after that.

 

But to reach the point where it should be ready for testing, I need one more area + its quest. This will be the asylum, also based in the docks. Everything is written down about this quest on spread sheets, so it just needs to be integrated in the module.

 

In other news, even though my world map system works fine... well, most of the time, it still gives me trouble on some encounters. I have no clue why, and it's giving me a headache. I thought I'd try to solve it by myself but after months of trying stuff I cannot get it to work as intended so I post the part of the script here, in hope that someone will enlighten me.

The following lines are from my traveling library, which is an include to the action script on my world map.

 

This works. Always. It has never failed.

 

if(sTargetWaypoint == "wp_living")
    {
        int bMetCyril = GetLocalInt (oPC, "met_cyril");
        if (!bMetCyril)
        {
            sTargetWaypoint = "wp_cyril_encounter";
        }    
    }

 

This however not. I think it worked one time, or two. But failed some other tests.

 

if(sTargetWaypoint == "wp_dryntal")
    {
        int bVisitedDryntal = GetLocalInt (oPC, "visited_dryntal");

        if (!bVisitedDryntal)
        {
            sTargetWaypoint = "wp_bef_dryntal";
        }
    }  

 

And this also never worked.

 

int iJournalEntry = GetJournalEntry("qu_dr_tablet", oPC);
    {
    if(iJournalEntry == 31)    
        {
        sTargetWaypoint = "wp_haunt_waste";
        }
    }

 

So, why would these calls fail me? All they do is see if a requirement is met, and if not, they send me to a different spot on the map. And I have it, so that once we travel to the spot, then the variable changes so that we never travel there again. Tags and everything are checked a 100 times. A mystery to me.

In any case, my world map travel might need some reworking. Small stuff. Especially now that the docks area is a module of its own, and I want it to be accessible through world map, I need to make it so that we can travel to the other districts and appear on the right side of the city depending on where we come from. This though, shouldn't take much time because I completely understand how the world map transitions work and how I want to make it. It's just the encounters that give me a headache .

[Frosty44]

This looks very interesting and I'm looking forward to the release! If you need somebody on a Mac to playtest, count me in!