2635 réponses à ce sujet

[Aimi]

I...don't actually know. Never managed to get a male Agent past Balmorra. :S

[OdanUrr]

I'm actually playing an Agent right now (well, I'm playing several character at the same time). I basically avoided all conversations with Kaliyo during the first chapter and I was able to "romance" Watcher Two without issue. My recommendation: max affection throughout the campaign but only engage in the dialogues after the campaign.

[AventuroLegendary]

@Eirene on old post

 

Welp, I checked and it looks like I can play my long lost Sith Warrior.  If I subscribe 

 

I don't know if I want to create another one. I've kind of grown attached to him...

[Dean_the_Young]

Well, it's official- Hand of Jadus. All those pretensions of secretly being a good person, crushed by a lifetime of indoctrination, of corruption to the Dark Side and Jadus's influence, and a psych profile that is less than stellar on the sense of self. Agent Leklido changed persona and personalities as often as he changed gloves, and Jadus put on the glove of Jadus onto his Hand. Now, with the persona of the Hand of Jadus, he's meaner and crueler and all those light side points have once again been canceled out.

 

There's some headcanoning involved, including a great Breaking Speech I'm imagining from Jadus, but I'm pleased. The Agent is a morass of both dark side corruption with the Hand of Jadus persona, mutual acrimony with Watcher 2, and a genuine undercurrent of guilt and despair for breaking to Jadus and enabling Eradication Day. Which I'm sure Jadus not only knows, but is greatly pleased by.

 

I'll have to write it out in full tomorrow. Good character arc for a not-so-good protagonist.

 

 

 

Speaking of not-good, a question for you Eirene. You mentioned once that you found the Temple romance disturbing- would you mind elaborating? I've my own thoughts, fitting into a greater 'the progatonist isn't really a good person', but I'm curious about your perspective.

[Aimi]

Speaking of not-good, a question for you Eirene. You mentioned once that you found the Temple romance disturbing- would you mind elaborating? I've my own thoughts, fitting into a greater 'the progatonist isn't really a good person', but I'm curious about your perspective.

My problem with her isn't so much romance-specific, but personality-specific. Temple creeps me out because of her bizarrely intense loyalty toward the Empire.

As a Force-sensitive child, her parents hid her so that she wouldn't be taken by the Sith. They eventually went so far as to flee Imperial space in order to keep her out of the clutches of the Sith. Temple grows up outside the Empire, but fully aware of how its evil has changed her life and her parents' lives.

But she's still so nationalistic that it's painful to see, and when she learns that her father has been discovered by the Sith, she goes to kill him herself rather than risk the Sith finding out about her. Her reasoning is partially pragmatic, but Cipher Nine can call her out on it: what if the Cipher helps relocate him? What if the Cipher eliminates the Sith on his track? But regardless, she shuts the player down.

So Temple murders her father so that the Sith can't kill him first, and so that she can continue to benefit from his "crime" of keeping her hidden from them. I have difficulty wrapping my head around that. I mean, I get that somebody doing that would be plausible, but I can't imagine working with such a person, or being friends with her.

[Dean_the_Young]

I think the Empire's societal indoctrination is part of the disturbing charm of the setting, to be honest. The Empire is an object of simultaneous pride and fear. I don't think Temple ever got out of the indoctrination, even from her own father.

[Ryzaki]

You picked Hand of Jadus Dean?

 

Only reason I'd pick that is because you get to kill Zhorrid. But talking Jadus into running away with his tail between his legs is beautiful. I love that too much.

[AresKeith]

You picked Hand of Jadus Dean?

 

Only reason I'd pick that is because you get to kill Zhorrid. But talking Jadus into running away with his tail between his legs is beautiful. I love that too much.

 

Marr, Jadus, and my Grey Sith Warrior are the future 

[Ryzaki]

Marr, Jadus, and my Grey Sith Warrior are the future 

 

XD

 

I wonder if my LS SW and SI would ever end up realizing they're on the same side. I'd hope so. They'd be damn frightening together.

[AresKeith]

XD

 

I wonder if my LS SW and SI would ever end up realizing they're on the same side. I'd hope so. They'd be damn frightening together.

 

I think canonically they do know each other

[Ryzaki]

I think canonically they do know each other

 

Oooh yay.

 

I can already see the potential sizing up. Sorc vs Mara. That'd be a sight.

[Dean_the_Young]

You picked Hand of Jadus Dean?

 

 

Aye. Or at least my agent did. Definitely being considered a moment of weakness and moral failing- he's scared of Jadus, and influenced by the Dark Side taint that surrounds him. Liklado was never a particularly good person- he adopts persona so easily that he doesn't have particularly developed sense of self- but Jadus's influence (and a head cannoned breaking speech) brought out the worst of him.

 

He could try to rationalize it as being enlightened towards aliens, or that he wants Intelligence under Jadus to rise above the Sith intrigue, but those would be lies. There were a lot of things running through his head in a turmoil, from fear to conditioned obedience to ambition to (quite pettily) anger at Watcher 2 for her willingness to so easily sacrifice others (such as dumping him over that misunderstanding with Kaliyo).

 

That last one is the most petty, and probably the most due to Jadus's corruptive influence bringing out the worse, but it's a cornerstone of the post-choice acrimony with Watcher 2 I've been going with, as well as an underlying guilt and regret that Laklido is carrying around. Having adopted the Hand of Jadus persona, he simultaneously hates and feels guilt and still longs for what he knows he can never have.

 

Bad breakup indeed.

 

 

 

Only reason I'd pick that is because you get to kill Zhorrid. But talking Jadus into running away with his tail between his legs is beautiful. I love that too much.

 

Oh, I've seen just about every possible outcome of the Jadus confrontation: from fighting him head-on, to sacrificing millions to arrest him, to surrender. I think SWTOR has writing on par with any other Bioware game, and Jadus is probably towards the top of what I consider well done.

 

In this case, I chose it because I though it fit the character arc I have in mind better than the alternatives. In short, my Agent is not only indoctrinated to the bone to obey Sith superiors, which Jadus fits, but my Agent is frankly terrified/particularly affected by Jadus's dark-side corruption. 

[Aimi]

In this case, I chose it because I though it fit the character arc I have in mind better than the alternatives. In short, my Agent is not only indoctrinated to the bone to obey Sith superiors, which Jadus fits, but my Agent is frankly terrified/particularly affected by Jadus's dark-side corruption.

So to keep this roleplay going, did you skip the Athiss FP? Planning to avoid the Dread Masters arc?

[Ryzaki]

*snipped a bit so I'm not quoting a whole page XD*

 

Aye. Or at least my agent did. Definitely being considered a moment of weakness and moral failing- he's scared of Jadus, and influenced by the Dark Side taint that surrounds him. Liklado was never a particularly good person- he adopts persona so easily that he doesn't have particularly developed sense of self- but Jadus's influence (and a head cannoned breaking speech) brought out the worst of him.

Bad breakup indeed.

In this case, I chose it because I though it fit the character arc I have in mind better than the alternatives. In short, my Agent is not only indoctrinated to the bone to obey Sith superiors, which Jadus fits, but my Agent is frankly terrified/particularly affected by Jadus's dark-side corruption. 

 

interesting. I have yet to make an agent that'd side with Jadus. Even my DS one settled for the whole trap him in a forcefield thing. They're either too worried about civilian casualties (I felt so bad for my LS agent who thought he was helping empire civilians. As Keeper said he was way too optimistic and naive for the job. It blows up in his face so spectacularly in act 2.) or vengeful (the chance to stick it to a Darth? No way my DSer was passing that up also revenge for the BS that is Zhorrid).

 

But yes agent story is beautifully done I played my agent as someone more aggravated with how the Sith constantly screw up even the best laid plans. He'll nod and say "My Lord" but that's not even remotely what he's thinking XD his reaction on Hutta was just a mega facepalm. All that careful planning ruined by some Sith with an attitude problem. Then in act 2 he's pretty much full screw all of you I quit mode.

[Milan92]

I loved the Agent storyline. Absolutly my favorite.

I played mine like James Bond

[OdanUrr]

I loved the Agent storyline. Absolutly my favorite.

I played mine like James Bond

 

Nine. Cipher Nine.

[Dean_the_Young]

*snipped a bit so I'm not quoting a whole page XD*

 

 

interesting. I have yet to make an agent that'd side with Jadus. Even my DS one settled for the whole trap him in a forcefield thing. They're either too worried about civilian casualties (I felt so bad for my LS agent who thought he was helping empire civilians. As Keeper said he was way too optimistic and naive for the job. It blows up in his face so spectacularly in act 2.) or vengeful (the chance to stick it to a Darth? No way my DSer was passing that up also revenge for the BS that is Zhorrid).

 

But yes agent story is beautifully done I played my agent as someone more aggravated with how the Sith constantly screw up even the best laid plans. He'll nod and say "My Lord" but that's not even remotely what he's thinking XD his reaction on Hutta was just a mega facepalm. All that careful planning ruined by some Sith with an attitude problem. Then in act 2 he's pretty much full screw all of you I quit mode.

 

 

So to keep this roleplay going, did you skip the Athiss FP? Planning to avoid the Dread Masters arc?

 

Besides not having done a single FP yet?

 

Not really. Long story short, Jadus has filled the role like none others now can, and then circumstances.

 

The trait of obedience was kind of a first come, first serve arrangement. Between trying to stay out of Sith politics and the natural hierarchy of the Empire, if a Sith requested/ordered something that didn't contradict a pre-existing directive or mission, Liklado would generally do it. There was the occasional subversion, but that was either when the disobedience could be covered up (like spiking the agony poison to lethal levels to avoid needless suffering of poisoning a slave rebellion), a professional judgement under the Intelligence Persona was made of a superior course (for the Nar Shadaan propoganda broadcast, he improvised a blackmail speech rather than the hammy script), or bleed-over from the effect of the persona of the day. (Alderaan being the most notable one, with a mix of Intelligence Assessment, when engaging the nobility honorably was a uniform success in gaining allies for House Thull.) Otherwise, though? Putting up with Zhorrid's insanity was pretty typical. When Jadus, who he mentally recognized as 'the big boss' and had never dismissed from his mind due to that darkside innoculation, finally returned, Jadus stepped back in to that position of 'boss to be obeyed.'

 

Becoming the Hand of Jadus, though, breaks the obedience towards everyone else. Being answerable only to Jadus has, in his mind, freed him from being answerable to any other Sith. It raised Intelligence, but raised him more, and now he can treat them as they had done unto him. It's a revenge and liberation and reciprocity he enjoys, and I imagine Jadus approves of it. It was definitely a factor influencing the Jadus choice.

 

Now, if some Sith Lord (or in Imperial) tries to browbeat/dominate him, he has an (in-character) basis to refuse them unless he cares to endulge them. And with Jadus's Dark Side innoculation, and that special terrifying spot Jadus holds in his heart and mind, he's better placed to resist future Dark Side influences and fears. In submitting to Jadus, he has in many respects become more independent. 

 

Except, of course, that little brainwashing bit...
 

 

 

The First Chapter is a character arc in which Liklado's behavior is dominated by indoctrinated obedience and his tendency to have his persona bleed over into his decision making. It was a strength, but ultimately a personal weakness that led him to submitting to Jadus.

 

He had a very weak individuality unifying traits: he was inclined to honor his promises and took pride in efficiency and effectiveness over pointless cruelty, but there was little other consistency. When he was the Red Blade, he was a profit-seeking mercenary who was secretly angling for Imperial influence. When he was Cipher 9 on Drommand Kas, he was a pure professional in breaking apart slave revolts and dissident movements. When he was a mole/double agent in the resistance cell on Balmorra, he was a ruthless insurgent who enabled unmitigated successes against his own nation while maintaining cover and who took actions that the resistance cell could perceive as compromising Imperial brutality and effectiveness, like boobytrapping grenades rather than holodevices. When he was Naar Shadaan he was a pro-Emperial crime syndicate intermediary with no honor past self-interest (until he dropped the act to catch and kill Watcher X). When he was a Count of Thul on Alderaan, he was an honorable and respectful adversary who played honor for alliances to support House Thull. When he was confronting the Eagle and the Patron he was Cipher 9 once again. He thought that, because of what his Personas had done on Alderaan and Tatooine and the little bits of mercy/surrender he offered and accepted from time to time, that he was Cipher 9 and Cipher 9 was a good person when the job didn't require being bad. But Cipher 9 submits to the master of Intelligence, and so became the Hand of Jadus and betrayed the desires to protect the citizens of the empire, betrayed the mission (if not the interests) of Intelligence, and betrayed a woman who he felt had betrayed him (when he knew she really hadn't). Cipher 9 wasn't a good person- Cipher 9 was whatever the persona of the hour was.

 

Who, then, was the real Liklado?

 

Chapter 2 is, in its own way, about finding that. The Persona system fails and begins to break under the influence of the brain washing. Watcher X's lingering influence, the anger and desire to break free and defy the personas that Hunter and the SIS are forcing on him, and those underlying feelings of guilt and anger that fuel the Hand of Jadus persona's ruthlessness- all of these will come together to break free of being defined by the persona. Come the end of Chapter 2, Laklido will make his first real steps as an individual in their own right.

[Aimi]

See, I'm okay with that in general, it's just that in light of Athiss - and a variety of other things, like the Dark Temple on DK and the later Dread Master arc - I see Jadus as significantly less of a credible threat.

Going by the class story, he's a combination of Yuri and Lovecraftian horror. But dark-side domination doesn't work on the player loads of other times, and viewed more objectively, Jadus' little project on the flagship looks less like the sinister experiment of a dark-side genius than the aimless violence of the likes of Jim Jones or Baron Ungern-Sternberg. His plan is rubbish, his vision makes no sense, and his goals are out of all proportion to his means and his skills.

Defeat and submission at Jadus' hands would be a bridge too far for any Cipher I could come up with. YMMV.

[Dean_the_Young]

Hell Eirene, if the Agent was the kind of objective person to avoid lost causes and abandon stupid-evil they wouldn't be with the Empire in the first place.

 

 

I won't argue that, in the grand scheme of things, Jadus might not be a credible threat. I honestly don't know the flashpoints, and his actual effectiveness in his goals is definitely debatable. To become a dominant power on the Dark Council? Well, he gets that, for all the difference it makes. To end infighting? Definitely fails. To resolve anti-alien prejudice and make non-Sith more valued? Mixed. To promote sociopathy across the Empire, even more than it already was? I think we can say check to that.

 

But I don't think his objective menace matters here, because it's not his objective Big Badness that matters- it's how Agent Liklado perceived him. And the crux of this is that Agent Liklado isn't as good as he thought he was: not morally, not mentally, not in terms of emotional composure, not in terms of courage or professionalism and so on. If I throw not objectively perspective enough in there as well... well, so much the better. A humbling failure it remains. Liklado didn't side with Jadus because he thought Jadus was a sane and effective objectively superior choice. He didn't even side with Jadus because Jadus was dominating him against his will. He sided with Jadus because he (Liklado) was having the worst of himself brought out by Jadus's lovecraftian horror corruption, and because he was being irrational and emotional at a time of persona break.

 

Jadus doesn't need to be the end-all evil: just the evil enough influence at that critical point in Liklado's development to put him on the path to deal with other sith, greater or lesser... however we end up dealing with them. Like the Dread Masters. And Athiss. They could well be greater evils, evil enough to still effect Liklado, but not in the same persona-breaking way that I imagine Jadus did. The Dread Masters can fill you with terror, but that's different from the breaking of your sense of self. If that makes sense?

 

Since I am admittedly ignorant of their plots that raise your question, would you mean enlightening me?

 

 

p.s.: I tried to google Yuri horror, because I'm not familiar with the author, but all I could find was, well, japanese lesbian horror. Can't say I ever noticed any of that with Jadus.

[Aimi]

Haha, it's this Yuri, silly:

[Dean_the_Young]

Well, that's better than the image of Chibi-Jadus dancing through my head.

 

 

I found a youtube video of the 'let Jadus fire on people and then trap him' route. It basically ends with him in a forcefield on the bridge.

 

There's a point at which you can flirt with Kaliyo and suggest making out in front of Jadus. Jadus has a hilariously deadpan response to it.

[Blooddrunk1004]

Jadus and Dread Masters shouldn't be mixed or compared.

 

Jadus is one of those sith that approves highly of intelligence, dislikes the sith and their abusal of power and control.

Dread Masters are a bunch of sith who went rogue after Vitiate died (or did he...) and their plan is to basicaly destroy the empire and the republic, but at the same time they also want to kill themselves. Why would anyone want to side with DMs is beyond me.

 

Maybe we could if TOR wasn't an MMO, since they are one of the hardest ops bosses in the game, especialy the Dread Council boss fight + count the fact that almost every ops and whole late game revolves around Dread Masters.

[Paragon Gabriel]

Anyone played here the Sith Warrior story arc? I have something I would like to have help with.

So I am roleplaying my Sith as a more pragmatic Sith. He started as your atypical Sith who kills and blindly believes in the Empire and my Master, but as the game has progressed my Sith warrior and the more I have learned about the Empire and my Master's beliefs and methods, he has become more leaning towards the light side. Especially during Taatoine mission were I met a light side reflection of myself. I naturally dismissed it as heresy, but have slowly been rethinking the morality of my character.

So now I am currently on Alderaan to get Jaesa Willsam. I know practically nothing about her, only that you can influence her to dark or light side. So I am wondering do I need to start increasing my light side points to get her approval or? And if not, can it make sense story wise to keep her on the lightside while my Sith is currently more dark side, while slowly changing into light?

[OdanUrr]

Anyone played here the Sith Warrior story arc? I have something I would like to have help with.

So I am roleplaying my Sith as a more pragmatic Sith. He started as your atypical Sith who kills and blindly believes in the Empire and my Master, but as the game has progressed my Sith warrior and the more I have learned about the Empire and my Master's beliefs and methods, he has become more leaning towards the light side. Especially during Taatoine mission were I met a light side reflection of myself. I naturally dismissed it as heresy, but have slowly been rethinking the morality of my character.

So now I am currently on Alderaan to get Jaesa Willsam. I know practically nothing about her, only that you can influence her to dark or light side. So I am wondering do I need to start increasing my light side points to get her approval or? And if not, can it make sense story wise to keep her on the lightside while my Sith is currently more dark side, while slowly changing into light?

 

As far as I know, it's your choices throughout the game that will define whether she turns to the dark side or not. So as long as your actions are more "light side" you should be good.

[In Exile]

Anyone played here the Sith Warrior story arc? I have something I would like to have help with.

So I am roleplaying my Sith as a more pragmatic Sith. He started as your atypical Sith who kills and blindly believes in the Empire and my Master, but as the game has progressed my Sith warrior and the more I have learned about the Empire and my Master's beliefs and methods, he has become more leaning towards the light side. Especially during Taatoine mission were I met a light side reflection of myself. I naturally dismissed it as heresy, but have slowly been rethinking the morality of my character.

So now I am currently on Alderaan to get Jaesa Willsam. I know practically nothing about her, only that you can influence her to dark or light side. So I am wondering do I need to start increasing my light side points to get her approval or? And if not, can it make sense story wise to keep her on the lightside while my Sith is currently more dark side, while slowly changing into light?

 

Getting her to turn darkside basically involves driving her insane based on your choices in your quest. You're going to pretty much have to pick the darkside outcome to all of the main quests related to her to get her to turn. Her romance also only exists for the darkside path.