In my books, Galactic Starfighter shines as the only truly awesome portion of the game.
Ignoring boring stuff like people I really like, GSF is the only thing that keeps me playing.
I find it absolutely insane they actually released an expansion where the beef is this six hour long, perfectly half decent storyline. Have these people ever played MMos? Story matters for six hours. Then it stops mattering. Why invest so heavily on it. wtf.
Story is great.
DOING a lot with the story is super super important though.
SWTOR doesn't do much with its story. Its there and gone.
If you're gonna have it, at least implement it like The Secret World does, where it weaves into everything in really cool ways. (TSW's weakness on the other end is that they don't have the resources to do much of anything *besides* story, but that's another matter)
Doing random dailies? Then I should actually feel like I'm helping towards something cool. Grinding raids? Then I should feel like we're doing something highly significant to story. Etc.
SWTOR has always been half-half on that sort of thing. Story is a 'pillar' of the design, but an often crumbling one off to the back.
Wires_From_The_Wall, Vroom Vroom et Lethaya aiment ceci
^ Funny that you mentioned TSW! I, too, really enjoyed the story. Or rather, I enjoyed the narrative and how they've actually gotten quite creative in ways said narrative is provided to player. TSW is extremely clever in telling, showing and teaching player things. It makes an excellent example of how to tell a story in an MMO. Hell, in video games as a whole. Huge, huge shame game had to bomb. In terms of narrative, storytelling, setting up the atmosphere, It is completely in it's own league when compared to ESO or TOR.
TOR's entire approach to this is completely different and much less exciting. At best of moments, TSW feels like living in some Stephen King mini-series/X-Files/Buffy. At most of it's moments, TOR feels like watching a boring BBC talk show. This is a genuine shame too;(too) few of the TOR stories are quite well written. Potential is there. Everything is just presented, told and shown to player in such incredibly numbing, boring fashion. I just stop giving a fuk.
TOR seems to assume good voice acting and dialog wheel is literally all it takes. As if entire narrative would then take care of itself on auto pilot. Well, it doesn't.
^ Funny that you mentioned TSW! I, too, really enjoyed the story. Or rather, I enjoyed the narrative and how they've actually gotten quite creative in ways said narrative is provided to player. TSW is extremely clever in telling, showing and teaching player things. It makes an excellent example of how to tell a story in an MMO. Hell, in video games as a whole. Huge, huge shame it had to bomb.
TOR's entire approach to this is completely different and much less exciting. At best of moments, TSW feels like watching some Stephen King mini-series/X-Files/Buffy. At most of it's moments, TOR feels like watching a boring BBC talk show.
TOR seems to assume good voice acting and dialog wheel is literally all it takes. As if entire narrative would then take care of itself on auto pilot. Well, it doesn't.
Imgaine if TSW or TOR was a single-player game.... It would have been WAY better then a MMO
Chashan, SwobyJ, Vroom Vroom et 1 autre aiment ceci
Imgaine if TSW or TOR was a single-player game.... It would have been WAY better then a MMO
Yea, I very much agree. Certainly in TSW's case.
Their whole philosophy of giving player opportunities to *learn* and * discover* the story employs many of the potential strengths in video game storytelling. On related note, it is astonishing how many studios kinda..don't. At some point, devs decided video game story telling should flirt with TV series or Hollywood instead. Why??
I've been reliably informed that a lot of people aren't bothering to play ops anymore after 3.0.2. I'm currently not playing so I can confirm this myself but is this really the case?
Imgaine if TSW or TOR was a single-player game.... It would have been WAY better then a MMO
While I agree for the most part, if TOR was a single player game you wouldn't get the multiple playable backgrounds with their own class stories and companions. That was only possible because the game was an MMO with a massive MMO budget.
If TOR had been a single player game it would probably be the Jedi Knight storyline, with Consular being one of the gameplay classes. That works fine for me as I'm fond of the Jedi Knight, but I imagine fans of the Sith, Smuggler, Bountry Hunter ect. would probably prefer the MMO if that was the trade off.
I've been reliably informed that a lot of people aren't bothering to play ops anymore after 3.0.2. I'm currently not playing so I can confirm this myself but is this really the case?
I can answer that.
Ever since Shadow of Revan was released the game literaly broke and by that i mean everything. Lag has appeared, glitches & bugs (especially in opses). Hell the final boss on main story was unkillable because he always bugged out unless if you had luck. Opses are in the middle ground, not only some bosses are bugged, laggy and sometimes don't drop lot, but the difficulty is on the completely different scale.
If you considered Dread Fortress / Palace to be hard when they were released than you haven't seen nothing yet. I personally don't mind that, i am in the heavy PVE guild that is focusing a lot on raiding and we have no problems with them. The main problem is with random/ pug groups, they simply cannot complete them, mostly because almost every boss in new ops requires TS, cordination and a lot of tactics even on Story difficulty. Compared to a lot of previous raids where most bosses had just tank / spank tactics.
On top of that, obtaining ultimate commendations is a lot more difficult now. Only new ops drop them and couple of old ops on Nightmare difficulty. To wrap it all up, they made the PVE content a lot more harder in terms of progression so maybe that's the reason why raids are not happening as much as they did before the expansion. Most bosses are fixed now though and some of them even got nerfed, the lag was also fixed in the raids.
While I agree for the most part, if TOR was a single player game you wouldn't get the multiple playable backgrounds with their own class stories and companions. That was only possible because the game was an MMO with a massive MMO budget.
If TOR had been a single player game it would probably be the Jedi Knight storyline, with Consular being one of the gameplay classes. That works fine for me as I'm fond of the Jedi Knight, but I imagine fans of the Sith, Smuggler, Bountry Hunter ect. would probably prefer the MMO if that was the trade off.
I think a game about the Imperial Agent would have been amazing.
It would be totally different from the usual jedi games.
Dermain, Han Shot First, Chashan et 2 autres aiment ceci
Ever since Shadow of Revan was released the game literaly broke and by that i mean everything. Lag has appeared, glitches & bugs (especially in opses). Hell the final boss on main story was unkillable because he always bugged out unless if you had luck. Opses are in the middle ground, not only some bosses are bugged, laggy and sometimes don't drop lot, but the difficulty is on the completely different scale.
[...]
On top of that, obtaining ultimate commendations is a lot more difficult now. Only new ops drop them and couple of old ops on Nightmare difficulty. To wrap it all up, they made the PVE content a lot more harder in terms of progression so maybe that's the reason why raids are not happening as much as they did before the expansion. Most bosses are fixed now though and some of them even got nerfed, the lag was also fixed in the raids.
Main story boss bugging out was fixed in first patch after release and ultimate comms are available from FP weeklies as well as ops.
Main story boss bugging out was fixed in first patch after release and ultimate comms are available from FP weeklies as well as ops.
You missed my point.
I'm well aware what's going on in the game at the moment and what has been fixed.
My point was is how imcompetent and terrible the new expansion is. It feels like they gave us beta version. I know it's an MMO and it takes a lot of work and coding to get things done but for godness sake the most important part of the main story was bugged and impossible to finish. I would at least expect that element to be working properly on Day 1.
Something the game might as well have rolled with, rather than 'canonize' that PC from past KotOR. After wrapping up the the latest expansion nothing much changed for me as to my treatment of the 'Revan'-figure in TOR as an impostor in that regard. Just my opinion, though. Have yet to see how the 'Exile' of KotOR 2 was handled in the game (is their appearance part of the pub's Revan-FP in the base-game, or of some class-story?).
Gameplay-wise I do like that the expansion's been quite accessible for solo-play, which is what I am primarily doing in TOR as of now as a pref.
Playing through Consular on the DS-side of things after reaching level 60 on my (mostly) strictly-business, merc-y BH, I liked her and DS-options of the 'pub for similar reasons.
Spoiler
With the twist in the Consular's case that they got a private army at their beck and call towards the end. What I find wanting here is that, while my Consular's alignment was acknowledged at a couple points by the Jedi Council itself, they somehow still are hailed as heroes at the very end and the fact they, with their very questionable track-record, do have this power at their command gets ignored.
On the other hand, there's the couple times in the class story where one can pose as a true Sith as well. Hilarious.
From what I saw of the other classes, 'pub dark side edges out on Imperial just a slight bit in my view, primarily because it goes against the expectation of the virtuous hero of a supposedly benevolent galaxy-spanning state (*yawn*). Instead, it's a matter of taking advantage of a thoroughly corrupt system, engaging the enemy with their own tactics and serving one's own gain. 'Real Renegade', as you put it, which makes for a far more interesting story in my opinion.
Old thread and all, hope you do not mind the bump and me quoting some old posts...
Something the game might as well have rolled with, rather than 'canonize' that PC from past KotOR. After wrapping up the the latest expansion nothing much changed for me as to my treatment of the 'Revan'-figure in TOR as an impostor in that regard. Just my opinion, though. Have yet to see how the 'Exile' of KotOR 2 was handled in the game (is their appearance part of the pub's Revan-FP in the base-game, or of some class-story?).
Gameplay-wise I do like that the expansion's been quite accessible for solo-play, which is what I am primarily doing in TOR as of now as a pref.
Playing through Consular on the DS-side of things after reaching level 60 on my (mostly) strictly-business, merc-y BH, I liked her and DS-options of the 'pub for similar reasons.
Spoiler
With the twist in the Consular's case that they got a private army at their beck and call towards the end. What I find wanting here is that, while my Consular's alignment was acknowledged at a couple points by the Jedi Council itself, they somehow still are hailed as heroes at the very end and the fact they, with their very questionable track-record, do have this power at their command gets ignored.
On the other hand, there's the couple times in the class story where one can pose as a true Sith as well. Hilarious.
From what I saw of the other classes, 'pub dark side edges out on Imperial just a slight bit in my view, primarily because it goes against the expectation of the virtuous hero of a supposedly benevolent galaxy-spanning state (*yawn*). Instead, it's a matter of taking advantage of a thoroughly corrupt system, engaging the enemy with their own tactics and serving one's own gain. 'Real Renegade', as you put it, which makes for a far more interesting story in my opinion.
The Exile is part of the Republic side FP's Taral V and Maelstrom Prison, yes.
I have a DS Shadow myself, and I play him a bit like he is the council's problem solver/muscle in the galaxy. Definitely works for the Republic and considers himself a part of the Jedi Order just like any other Jedi, but he can and will do anything necessary to achieve victory against the Empire. Essentially beating the Sith at their own game, which I find fitting for a Shadow since I seem to remember the lore about them being that they're viewed with a bit of mistrust due to a lot of their powers and techniques being a bit clouded on the dark/light spectrum in addition to being spies and the Jedi secret police.
But by far the most satisfying class story I've had is as a light sided Sith Warrior, it just plays perfectly as long as you don't just slavishly pick the LS option every time in dialogue. Spoilers, just in case:
Spoiler
The way I played my Warrior was starting out as an extremely devoted apprentice who gladly takes his place as Baras' enforcer. However, he sees no need to actively mistreat and oppress others purely because he can due to his status as Sith. He is an honorable man who is just devoted and loyal to an Empire and superiors who for the most part don't share his morals.
He plays his part as Baras' thug and kills for him, but when possible, he does what he can to help the rank and file or just ordinary citizens, opting for the more reasonable approach to problems when presented with a choice, killing is a last resort, not something done on a whim. He sees it as his duty to lead by example and with honor. He uses his rage as a weapon when necessary, but isn't controlled by a base bloodlust and need to dominate and torture others like so many of his peers.
But when Baras betrays him, he doesn't give him or his associates any quarter. They all signed their death warrants with that betrayal, and the class story ended with a very satisfying lighsaber through Baras' chest and my Warrior as the Emperor's Wrath poised to hopefully help steer the Empire into a direction that's not absolutely horrible for non-humans and basically everybody who isn't Sith. Still had about 9/10 of the way to max light side in spite of killing quite a few characters when it seemed logical to do so, wouldn't take all that long to max out if I started grinding Black Talon or something.
As a contrast, my Sorcerer is completely batsh*t insane, torturing people with lightning while giggling about it and loving every ounce of power and status she has as a Sith Lord, which the female Inquisitor VA plays to perfection and RP wise goes well with the Madness spec. Still has a bit of a soft spot for Twi'leks and slaves in general since she is a Twi'lek and used to be a slave.
The Exile is part of the Republic side FP's Taral V and Maelstrom Prison, yes.
I have a DS Shadow myself, and I play him a bit like he is the council's problem solver/muscle in the galaxy. Definitely works for the Republic and considers himself a part of the Jedi Order just like any other Jedi, but he can and will do anything necessary to achieve victory against the Empire. Essentially beating the Sith at their own game, which I find fitting for a Shadow since I seem to remember the lore about them being that they're viewed with a bit of mistrust due to a lot of their powers and techniques being a bit clouded on the dark/light spectrum in addition to being spies and the Jedi secret police.
But by far the most satisfying class story I've had is as a light sided Sith Warrior, it just plays perfectly as long as you don't just slavishly pick the LS option every time in dialogue. Spoilers, just in case:
Spoiler
The way I played my Warrior was starting out as an extremely devoted apprentice who gladly takes his place as Baras' enforcer. However, he sees no need to actively mistreat and oppress others purely because he can due to his status as Sith. He is an honorable man who is just devoted and loyal to an Empire and superiors who for the most part don't share his morals.
He plays his part as Baras' thug and kills for him, but when possible, he does what he can to help the rank and file or just ordinary citizens, opting for the more reasonable approach to problems when presented with a choice, killing is a last resort, not something done on a whim. He sees it as his duty to lead by example and with honor. He uses his rage as a weapon when necessary, but isn't controlled by a base bloodlust and need to dominate and torture others like so many of his peers.
But when Baras betrays him, he doesn't give him or his associates any quarter. They all signed their death warrants with that betrayal, and the class story ended with a very satisfying lighsaber through Baras' chest and my Warrior as the Emperor's Wrath poised to hopefully help steer the Empire into a direction that's not absolutely horrible for non-humans and basically everybody who isn't Sith. Still had about 9/10 of the way to max light side in spite of killing quite a few characters when it seemed logical to do so, wouldn't take all that long to max out if I started grinding Black Talon or something.
As a contrast, my Sorcerer is completely batsh*t insane, torturing people with lightning while giggling about it and loving every ounce of power and status she has as a Sith Lord, which the female Inquisitor VA plays to perfection and RP wise goes well with the Madness spec. Still has a bit of a soft spot for Twi'leks and slaves in general since she is a Twi'lek and used to be a slave.
I was just going to like your post JobacNoor, but I'm out of likes. So I'm responding because, holy cow it sounds like you played my sith warrior and inquisitor! I have about the same stories for mine. My warrior is LS (she wants an empire that is respected, not just feared and a better place for aliens since she is one) and my Inquisitor is DS. She is a softy for slaves as well.
It's been a while, finished my LS-Sith Warrior's class-story in the mean-time (hence, I skipped on the spoiler below until now).
The Exile is part of the Republic side FP's Taral V and Maelstrom Prison, yes.
I have a DS Shadow myself, and I play him a bit like he is the council's problem solver/muscle in the galaxy. Definitely works for the Republic and considers himself a part of the Jedi Order just like any other Jedi, but he can and will do anything necessary to achieve victory against the Empire. Essentially beating the Sith at their own game, which I find fitting for a Shadow since I seem to remember the lore about them being that they're viewed with a bit of mistrust due to a lot of their powers and techniques being a bit clouded on the dark/light spectrum in addition to being spies and the Jedi secret police.
Saw the 'Exile's' appearance myself a while back, soloing through the instances to get the parts for HK. The fact that the name's never dropped outright in-game kinda doesn't diminish the role that the 'entity' ultimately plays. In fact, here again nothing changes by having an all-new character in place instead - which there is, all-but, excepting the meta-information that it is supposed to be the 'Exile'-, even more so than is the case for TOR's 'Revan'.
I enjoyed the self-interest side of the DS-options for 'pub more, as I mentioned, rather than being a good patriot, including leaving backdoors open to 'defect', and acted accordingly where possible. Particularly telling is that the final boss of the story even goes so far as to say he should have approached her - well then why didn't you?! I do know that this doesn't happen due to the game's constraints as an MMO, but then that's something recalling the wish expressed here earlier for an SP-sequel to KotOR, where such a more divergent outcome to the story could be better handled.
General observations I can make regarding Light-side with the Imperials: it certainly was less idealistic in general than I'd expected, a good number of the LS-options being more pragmatic than anything.
But by far the most satisfying class story I've had is as a light sided Sith Warrior, it just plays perfectly as long as you don't just slavishly pick the LS option every time in dialogue. Spoilers, just in case:
Spoiler
The way I played my Warrior was starting out as an extremely devoted apprentice who gladly takes his place as Baras' enforcer. However, he sees no need to actively mistreat and oppress others purely because he can due to his status as Sith. He is an honorable man who is just devoted and loyal to an Empire and superiors who for the most part don't share his morals.
He plays his part as Baras' thug and kills for him, but when possible, he does what he can to help the rank and file or just ordinary citizens, opting for the more reasonable approach to problems when presented with a choice, killing is a last resort, not something done on a whim. He sees it as his duty to lead by example and with honor. He uses his rage as a weapon when necessary, but isn't controlled by a base bloodlust and need to dominate and torture others like so many of his peers.
But when Baras betrays him, he doesn't give him or his associates any quarter. They all signed their death warrants with that betrayal, and the class story ended with a very satisfying lighsaber through Baras' chest and my Warrior as the Emperor's Wrath poised to hopefully help steer the Empire into a direction that's not absolutely horrible for non-humans and basically everybody who isn't Sith. Still had about 9/10 of the way to max light side in spite of killing quite a few characters when it seemed logical to do so, wouldn't take all that long to max out if I started grinding Black Talon or something.
As a contrast, my Sorcerer is completely batsh*t insane, torturing people with lightning while giggling about it and loving every ounce of power and status she has as a Sith Lord, which the female Inquisitor VA plays to perfection and RP wise goes well with the Madness spec. Still has a bit of a soft spot for Twi'leks and slaves in general since she is a Twi'lek and used to be a slave.
Mostly in agreement, although the key-charm of my LS-Warrior was the manipulative impression she left upon her 'pub opponents at times, also brought up before in this thread.
High point for me playing my LS-Warrior definitely was the closing of Chapter 1. The way the recruitment of the companion there was handled was simply amazing, and since it's diverging based on the alignment I do see myself playing a DS-Warrior somewhere down the line.
Towards the end of this class-story as a whole I think letting a certain individual get away breathing will be my default choice, however. I just have taken a liking to him, betrayal or no.
Towards the end of this class-story as a whole I think letting a certain individual get away breathing will be my default choice, however. I just have taken a liking to him, betrayal or no.
Spoiler
If I recall correctly, said person survives regardless of the choice.
My version of Kotor 3 would have Revan as the PC, Ajunta Pall and Darth Nihilus as secondary characters. It would be dark enough of a story that Ajunta Pall and Darth Nihilus wouldn't change one damn bit and still be more heroic than the bad guys. Yes i am aware of Nihilus's omnidical nature and Ajunta Pall's darker nature. Having an Ubese Infilirator, General Pog Krell(the four armed bastard from the Clone Wars soons) Expy with a large lightsaber per hand. A Rodian Melee Duelist. Ewok Shaman(his class function as a Jedi Counslar). A Jawa Soldier/Engineer with a love of Heavy Weapons that are bigger than him. The Jawa becomes friends with Hk and T3.
Yes there will be some time travel.
Returning Characters: Canderous, Hk-47 and T3-M4.
Fandom personal character: Seviole(yes I do have a side quest for both Kotor 1 and Kotor 3 she can fit into the crew). Yes she has a bit of a history with Revan.
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