2635 réponses à ce sujet

[Br3admax]

Jedi Covenant>All

[CrutchCricket]

Completely ignoring that the much more powerful Revan was a Padawan throughout the entirety of KotOR, and he was tasked with taking on the most powerful Sith, much more powerful than Angral, in the galaxy Malak. A rank in an organization has nothing to do with your power, so there is literally no point in this.

Yes, because Revan is absolutely the best example of a typical Jedi and a reasonably powered protagonist through and through .

 

If a rank has nothing to do with your power, why do you care what rank TOR's Jedi are?
 

That's also not how one demonstrates how they deserve to be Knighted. They need to display their own personal capacity to resist their fears, inner darkness, and master of the Force, etc, and we get promoted on raw power displays.

Did you even read my post? I just told you they were promoted because they resisted the darkness and redeemed another. Hell you could even make the case that their adversaries were a dark reflection of themselves, if you insist it has to be personal darkness. Bengel More (sp?) was Orgus' former Padawan, the Knight is the current Padawan. And Nalen Raloch, while not a Jedi is a dark follower of Rajivari while the Consular learns Rajivari's ways but remains true to the light (and come to think of it, can redeem Rajivari's ghost as well).

 

All the criteria are met.

[Br3admax]

Yes, because Revan is absolutely the best example of a typical Jedi and a reasonably powered protagonist through and through .

 

If a rank has nothing to do with your power, why do you care what rank TOR's Jedi are?

The actual ****? For starters, neither is any TOR protagonist, but there are several examples in the mythos of Padawans who have far superior showings than say, beating up another Padawan or a crazy dude from the hills. 

 

And I care because rank has a lot to do with maturity and responsibility in the Order. The fact that rank has nothing to do with power does not mean that rank should be given out at the drop of a hat and that it is irrelevant. 

Did you even read my post? I just told you they were promoted because they resisted the darkness and redeemed another. 

No they aren't. For starters, there is no "canon" so saying, "They defeated Morr, saved the holocrons, and blah," doesn't hold weight here. Second, they tell you exactly why you are promoted to the rank of Jedi Knight in both classes. Because you kill stuff good and made a flashy laser sword. 

 

Hell you could even make the case that their adversaries were a dark reflection of themselves, if you insist it has to be personal darkness. Bengel More (sp?) was Orgus' former Padawan, the Knight is the current Padawan. And Nalen Raloch, while not a Jedi is a dark follower of Rajivari while the Consular learns Rajivari's ways but remains true to the light (and come to think of it, can redeem Rajivari's ghost as well).

 

All the criteria are met.

 

That's actually some pretty nonsensical reasoning and does not meet any criteria for attaining the rank of Jedi Knight. To become a Jedi Knight you have to go through several "trials," to show both mastery of oneself and the teachings of the Order. While it's arguable that each class does one or the other, neither do both, and all fail to show actual mastery beyond the building of a lightsaber, which younglings can do. They've done nothing to warrant Knighthood. The real explanation is the Jedi are crippled and they need as many Jedi as possible. Similar things happened in the NJO. Kill good and you get promoted. This however in the end only weakens the Order and the next generation of Jedi. Galen Marek is more Jedi than the PCs are off Tython. 

[Alan Rickman]

I just started my second character through the Shadow of Revan questline. I abstained the first time around, but if I start putting the moves on Lana, will whoever I've romanced on my crew take offense at some point, or will they pretend I'm not blatantly flirting with someone else right in front of them?

[Liamv2]

I'm pretty sure you don't become a knight on the Consular line. You just go straight from Padawan to Master. Which is dumb but that's an issue for another day.

[Mr.House]

I'm pretty sure you don't become a knight on the Consular line. You just go straight from Padawan to Master. Which is dumb but that's an issue for another day.

You get a padawan as a padawan. Lulz

[Liamv2]

You get a padawan as a padawan. Lulz

 

No that's the Knight storyline where you become a Knight when you get her. You're a master before you get a Padawan for the Consular.

[Br3admax]

I'm pretty sure you don't become a knight on the Consular line. You just go straight from Padawan to Master. Which is dumb but that's an issue for another day.

Nope. On Tython, you are a Padawan. When you finish the planet you gain the rank of "Jedi" but that's just the game's way of saying Jedi Knight without actually calling you a Jedi Knight because that is also the name of a class. The Barsen'thor is still a Jedi Knight lorewise. 

[Liamv2]

Nope. On Tython, you are a Padawan. When you finish the planet you gain the rank of "Jedi" but that's just the game's way of saying Jedi Knight without actually calling you a Jedi Knight because that is also the name of a class. The Barsen'thor is still a Jedi Knight lorewise. 

 

Oh so it did it all sneakily. Ok.

[Ryzaki]

Did you play past Act 1? because Act 1 in notoriously bad while Act 2 and 3 are pretty damn great. Can't comment on the Inquisitor.

 

I have beaten every class story so yeah.

 

Act 2 and 3 are not pretty damn great at all. They're pretty shitty. Especially when you compare them to the Agent and Knight.

 

As someone told me "Inquisitior goes from Indiana Jones to Ghostbusters." if that's your thing...

[Mr.House]

I have beaten every class story so yeah.

 

Act 2 and 3 are not pretty damn great at all. They're pretty shitty. Especially when you compare them to the Agent and Knight.

 

As someone told me "Inquisitior goes from Indiana Jones to Ghostbusters." if that's your thing...

....lol

[CrutchCricket]

The actual ****? For starters, neither is any TOR protagonist,

True, but then, I'm not the one complaining about them. If you have a problem with one, you should have a problem with them all.
 

but there are several examples in the mythos of Padawans who have far superior showings than say, beating up another Padawan or a crazy dude from the hills.

The Padawan we beat up beat up his master, who is now our master. So either our master's a ******, or said Padawan is nothing to sneer at. And the crazy dude from the hills just no sell'd a tomb full of traps by an ancient Jedi who went dark side before it was cool. Again, maybe they're not the favored Force messiah, but they did alright. Beyond that, what are you claiming here? That they were promoted based on power alone or that they have no power to begin with (since you seem to dismiss their accomplishments on Tython). Make up your mind.

It's not required that you like them. But don't try and say they're objectively worthless because that's simply not true.
 

And I care because rank has a lot to do with maturity and responsibility in the Order. The fact that rank has nothing to do with power does not mean that rank should be given out at the drop of a hat and that it is irrelevant.

Both maturity and responsibility were demonstrated on Tython for both Jedi classes. Both in their handling of their respective adversaries and in their actions before (the Knight a little more so since he dealt with the Twi'lek village).
 

No they aren't. For starters, there is no "canon" so saying, "They defeated Morr, saved the holocrons, and blah," doesn't hold weight here. Second, they tell you exactly why you are promoted to the rank of Jedi Knight in both classes. Because you kill stuff good and made a flashy laser sword.

Canon assumption. As in, what is standard for Star Wars stories with diverging paths, be it Bioware or not. Otherwise, if you had gone all dark side it makes zero sense that you're still walking free, let alone talking about promotions. So that, like people who finish the Knight story as dark side but still get the Master title, can just be ignored. As for what they tell you:
 
Knight: 
Orgus Din: This young Jedi captured a fallen member of our order and saved this temple from destruction. I see no reason he should remain a Padawan.
Satele Shan: Your bravery, heroism and sacrifice show great depth of character.
Other considerations: The Knight is asked what is to be done with the Twi'lek matriach and village beforehand. That could be seen as a test.
 
The Consular version is indeed weak by comparison but while the actual knighting is underwhelming the events that lead up to it still speak for themselves.
 

That's actually some pretty nonsensical reasoning and does not meet any criteria for attaining the rank of Jedi Knight. To become a Jedi Knight you have to go through several "trials," to show both mastery of oneself and the teachings of the Order. While it's arguable that each class does one or the other, neither do both, and all fail to show actual mastery beyond the building of a lightsaber, which younglings can do. They've done nothing to warrant Knighthood. The real explanation is the Jedi are crippled and they need as many Jedi as possible. Similar things happened in the NJO. Kill good and you get promoted. This however in the end only weakens the Order and the next generation of Jedi. Galen Marek is more Jedi than the PCs are off Tython.

Well no ****. I never argued it was orthodox, or the typical way Jedi were promoted.
 

Exceptions were sometimes made in the passing of the trials, but it was rare. In times of turmoil, the trials could be bypassed at the discretion of the High Council if the Padawan had shown great skill, courage, or dedication to the Order. In such cases the apprentice was considered to have passed the trials through their various accomplishments, negating the need for formal testing.

-Wookiepedia, Jedi Trials.
 
But you're entirely wrong that both Jedi did not demonstrate everything they needed to. Do I really have to break down how each of the five trials was actually met?
 

I'm pretty sure you don't become a knight on the Consular line. You just go straight from Padawan to Master. Which is dumb but that's an issue for another day.

You do at the end of the Tython arc. You're in the middle of the "ceremony" when Yuon faints. Would suck if it didn't count because she never finished though.

[Br3admax]

Act I Knight is better than Act I Consular in that Act I Knight isn't boring as hell. Act II and Act III aren't boring either, but Belsavis is definitely trying for all classes at times.

Act 2 and 3 are not pretty damn great at all. They're pretty shitty. Especially when you compare them to the Agent and Knight.

I find your lack of Wrath disturbing. 

[Br3admax]

True, but then, I'm not the one complaining about them. If you have a problem with one, you should have a problem with them all.

That makes no sense. 

 

The Padawan we beat up beat up his master, who is now our master. So either our master's a ******, or said Padawan is nothing to sneer at. And the crazy dude from the hills just no sell'd a tomb full of traps by an ancient Jedi who went dark side before it was cool. Again, maybe they're not the favored Force messiah, but they did alright. Beyond that, what are you claiming here? That they were promoted based on power alone or that they have no power to begin with (since you seem to dismiss their accomplishments on Tython). Make up your mind.

It's not required that you like them. But don't try and say they're objectively worthless because that's simply not true.

 

That's actually not what happened. The Pilgrims stunned Orgus the same way they poisoned you and gave him to Morr. If you actually pay attention to the dialogue anyway. And while that crazy dude may have followed you to a place to bomb it, that does not make him anywhere near as great a feat as some of the things Padawans have done in the PT or the NJO period. Actually facing Sith, not crazy half trained Padawans, Sith. The Vong War. Etc. The people faced on Tython are small time in comaprison, and the thought that a bunch of savages with blasters could destroy the entire Jedi Order when one Padawan could stop them all is ridiculous. 

 

 

 

Both maturity and responsibility were demonstrated on Tython for both Jedi classes. Both in their handling of their respective adversaries and in their actions before (the Knight a little more so since he dealt with the Twi'lek village).
 

Canon assumption. As in, what is standard for Star Wars stories with diverging paths, be it Bioware or not. Otherwise, if you had gone all dark side it makes zero sense that you're still walking free, let alone talking about promotions. So that, like people who finish the Knight story as dark side but still get the Master title, can just be ignored. As for what they tell you:

Which is not valid here. This game does not opporate under that standard, and BioWare has said several times that the only canon is the one made by the player. The fact that you didn't sleep with the Twi'lek girl and hit Morr in the head isn't facing yourself or your inner darkness either way. Both Jedi made a point to not actually give you any trials and just let stuff happen, the Consular even makes a big deal out of it. It's by far the dumbest thing about the entire questline of both. 

Knight: 
Orgus Din: This young Jedi captured a fallen member of our order and saved this temple from destruction. I see no reason he should remain a Padawan.
Satele Shan: Your bravery, heroism and sacrifice show great depth of character.
Other considerations: The Knight is asked what is to be done with the Twi'lek matriach and village beforehand. That could be seen as a test.

Because things like that don't happen on a daily basis with other Padawans. And those flesh raiders totally would have destroyed the Jedi Temple. 

 

 

The Consular version is indeed weak by comparison but while the actual knighing is underwhelming the events that lead up to it still speak for themselves.

Yep. The Consular went on a treasure hunt and learned the exact opposite of Jedi teachings, before finally hitting someone with a lightsaber while they only had a training saber. I'm glad this makes him/her the model candidate from promotion. 

Well no ****. I never argued it was orthodox, or the typical way Jedi were promoted.
 

-Wookiepedia, Jedi Trials.
 
But you're entirely wrong that both Jedi did not demonstrate everything they needed to. Do I really have to break down how each of the five trials was actually met?

Giving the reasoning you given already, I'll pass. I'm sure you'll go on about what specifically you did. About how you getting poisoned is totally a trail of flesh, about how you though really hard about hitting someone over the head, and that hey, you apologized for all the bad things you may have possibly thought about doing, but that isn't how the Jedi operate. 

[Mr.House]

Canon assumption is the worse accuse for bad writing.

[Aimi]

Oh and another thing from that datamining link: Companion gear no longer matters? So I've been running Yavin weeklies for nothing?
 
FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUU-

If you thought that the 192-equivalent Devoted Allies gear would mean anything after a level cap rise, then you probably weren't thinking very clearly. The Yavin weekly gear is useful, but it's only useful for the content that comes out before 4.0.

And if your companions didn't need the Yavin weekly gear for any of the stuff that we've got so far, then there's no real reason to farm it for the gear, is there?

I, for one, rather like the idea that companion power will be based on influence, because it removes the need for an outfit designer for them. Now I can put Jaesa back into her Relnex robes without being perturbed about efficiency losses.

[Mr.House]

Yavin gear would still be useful for the new content in 4.0, at least the early bits.

[Ryzaki]

....lol

 

Yes Consular story is so bad Knight looks good in comparison. That's my point.

[Ryzaki]

Act I Knight is better than Act I Consular in that Act I Knight isn't boring as hell. Act II and Act III aren't boring either, but Belsavis is definitely trying for all classes at times.

I find your lack of Wrath disturbing. 

 

Warrior's kind of hurt by obvious betrayals being obvious but PC is surprised by them anyway. Still in my top 3 stories but yeah.

[Milan92]

"WAAAAAAT?!?!? BARAS BETRAYED ME???????"

[Ryzaki]

"WAAAAAAT?!?!? BARAS BETRAYED ME???????"

 

And then

 

"What??? The dude Baras insisted I drag along betrayed me?!?"

 

SMH forever.

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

Just finished Ziost as an Inquisitor. I enjoyed roleplaying a dark-side sith who isn't entirely batshit crazy. He made sensible choices when it came to the good of the empire, while showing no mercy to the republic or his enemies.

 

I've been playing a smuggler on the side. Didn't think I would enjoy playing a republic story, but the smuggler has some really hilarious lines. I tried out a Trooper and didn't make it past the prologue, bored me to tears within seconds.

 

Spoiler

My main, Darth Draxun. Is it just me or is it damn near impossible to get a sleek set of hooded robes as an inquisitor? And the cost of getting black dye, gah!

 

Even a sith lord needs to tidy up once in a while...

[Liamv2]

Yes Consular story is so bad Knight looks good in comparison. That's my point.

 

Ewwww no.

[Cypher0020]

Loving that story exp boost

 

Finished all 3 chapters as a smuggler. Now I'm at 54, and waiting to hit 55 to remod my gear, and possibly start tackling hardmodes of the flashpoints

 

Dunno to pick up my knight or my inquisitor, both are 32, going to Aldeeran

[Liamv2]

Warrior's kind of hurt by obvious betrayals being obvious but PC is surprised by them anyway. Still in my top 3 stories but yeah.

 

Seriously? You can say you were expecting them which I did. Because I was.