35 réponses à ce sujet

[KevTheGamer]

I don't get it. He brought you back to life then sent you off to die on several missions. Then we find out at the end of ME 3 it was intentional. WTF!?!?! Spend all that time and money to try and kill Shepard yourself? I don't get it. Did I miss something? 

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

Did you miss the part where he became indoctrinated? In ME3, that is.

In ME2, TIM was trying to "save" the colonies, but I'd surmise that his main goal was to collect Reaper technology with which he could further empower Cerberus. Which is exactly what he did in ME3.

Modifié par Leonardo the Magnificent, 30 août 2013 - 07:51 .

[Jukaga]

I don't recall being sent off to die in ME2, TiM had sound reasons for everything he did in ME2, including 'deceiving' Shepard. HINT: We call it opsec today.

[KevTheGamer]

I caught that but before he was indoctrinated while they were bringing Shepard back he still appeared to be a douche and tricking Shepard into working for them.

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Did you miss the part where he became indoctrinated? In ME3, that is.

In ME2, TIM was trying to "save" the colonies, but I'd surmise that his main goal was to collect Reaper technology with which he could further empower Cerberus. Which is exactly what he did in ME3.

Modifié par KevWestBeats.com, 30 août 2013 - 07:53 .

[KevTheGamer]

Jukaga wrote...

I don't recall being sent off to die in ME2, TiM had sound reasons for everything he did in ME2, including 'deceiving' Shepard. HINT: We call it opsec today.

Horizon and the Collector ship come right to mind for me. 

[Excella Gionne]

In the end, Shepard departed from Cerberus. Shepard went back to the Alliance along with the Cerberus Normandy. In ME3, Cerberus is doing exactly what the Reapers wanted them to do. TIM was already indoctrinated long before. Shepard was only brought back to fight the Collectors, because the human race was in danger, and because of Shepard's ability to command, Shepard was the only one anyone viable for the task. TIM sent Shepard on those dangerous missions, because he assumed that Shepard would get out alive regardless. HE had faith in Shepard's abilities.

[KevTheGamer]

johnnythao89 wrote...

In the end, Shepard departed from Cerberus. Shepard went back to the Alliance along with the Cerberus Normandy. In ME3, Cerberus is doing exactly what the Reapers wanted them to do. TIM was already indoctrinated long before. Shepard was only brought back to fight the Collectors, because the human race was in danger, and because of Shepard's ability to command, Shepard was the only one anyone viable for the task. TIM sent Shepard on those dangerous missions, because he assumed that Shepard would get out alive regardless. HE had faith in Shepard's abilities.

makes sense

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

Secondly, Shepard was a figure of tremendous celebrity, savior of organic life and all. Having him work for Cerberus, regardless of whether or not he "resigned," is a powerful recruitment tool. Which TIM exploited. This guy knows what he's doing.

[thehomeworld]

I think they changed his motive for 2.

For me using the ingame evidence I've got a few theories as to what it could've been

1. Using shep to defeat the reapers by any cost
- Being a half husk himself and pro human he would've wanted to defeat the reapers and make sure humanity was the one on top after wards most likely to dominate everything as king since he doesn't strike me as the type to win all the cards then parcel all the money out.

- He lied to Miranda about the chip had Wilson install it do to Wilson gaining an ego and or Wilson was set to betray tim by stealing shep's unconscious body he had Miranda kill him to cover both items up. Miranda believes there is no chip tells shep now she has plausible deniability and if it comes to light about the chip she'll be just as surprised as he/she is.

- The plan was to get shep to like Cerberus by having nice people working with him, he also controlled who from the crew he met and what both parties knew when they did. Isolating shep from his former allies, spying on him 24/7, having both Kelly and Miranda sending reports in means he has max control and will gain an idea of shep's personal habits, contacts, ect for the future.

- The overall plan was to have him do pro Cerberus things to strengthen them now, trust them, make shep a real reaper treat with all his pro cyborg parts allowing him to be hacked, able to connect to machines, giving him reaper components, and further insighting the reapers by killing off all their mooks he made shep an irresistible target and Harbi was set to take that bait after Arrival.

- In ME3 shep at somepoint was due to be hacked by Harbi and used as a pawn after we make it to the citadel instead of TIM going insane he would've been ok using the chip implanted in Shep to retake control and force shep to destroy the reapers or blow up the entire device to weaken all reapers so the Alliance and Cerberus troops could do most of the killing humanity gets the credit and the galaxy can't function without them.

A common theme in ME is that everybody wants shep to use him or to get him to their side I don't see any reason why TIM wouldn't also keep to this theme.

All of shep's weaknesses and his general reconstruction open him as well as EDI up to compromise by reaper, Lev, geth, and Tim all the time yet oddly no one is using it though most of them show they can, do, or would love to use these weak points.

[andy6915]

@thehomeworld

Shepard didn't have a chip installed, and EVERY SINGLE piece of evidence shows that. A control chip implanted Shepard wouldn't have sided against Cerberus at every chance s/he got in ME3, and wouldn't have been able to blow up the Collector base.

Now onto the thread's topic.

His real goal was to use Shepard to get him Collector and Reaper technology, and to be a great PR move for Cerberus (the great Commander Shepard joined them, maybe they aren't so bad). You was just his little puppet. He leaked you being with Cerberus to get you ostracized from the Alliance and the Council so that you had no where else to go but to stick with Cerberus. He made Cerberus to be seen in only the best light possible to Shepard, making Shepard more likely to stick with them.

Also, this does actually mean that saving the Collector Base was just being Cerberus' tool. You are nothing but a foolish idiot who was tricked if you save it, someone who completely fell for the manipulation of TIM. If you think it was the better choice, it's only because TIM tricked you that good... Played you like a violin and cut your strings. Destroying it is the way that at least mitigates the damage of his trickery. If you keep it to save yourself from the "abomination and soul of species" lines, just pick all the renegade choices while still destroying it and you won't get those dumb lines.

[Display Name Owner]

Not saying he's a trustworthy guy by any means, but I don't think there's any reason to assume he was lying about his goals in ME2. Save the colonies, thereby preserving 'umanity's foothold in the Termins Systems, and stop the Collectors, gaining info on the Reapers through them, not to mention a good look at the advanced tech the Collectors were known for having.

As far as Shepard goes, he was probably hoping to establish a working relationship. Having a Spectre in his pocket would have been very useful indeed. Especially one with a Prothean Cipher in his head.

Also, I seem to remember seeing somewhere that the reason for recruiting from a range of alien groups instead of using his own goons was TIM trying to gain information on them all. Which must have worked well, he learned about Quarian politics, Geth, STG operations, what was going on on Tuchanka, the Justicars, Drell society, etc. etc.

Entrusting Shep with the SR-2 was kind of dumb though. Massive risk that completely backfired.

[Ruadh]

His goal was to stop aliens killing and experimenting on humans. Only humans are allowed to kill and experiment on humans, so that humans may benefit and will never again be killed and experimented on by aliens.

Thats how I'd sum it up.

[Forst1999]

I don't think he ever cared about the colonies per se. People are just numbers to him, and the tiny Terminus colonies are meaningless in the greater scheme of things. His goals were acquiring Reaper tech and good publicity. Shepard was ideal for this.
As for "sending you off to die in several missions": Of course SHepard's line of work is dangerous, every mission could be the last. The only time where it was otherwise was the collector ship. I still think informing Shepard about the purpose of the mission and the Collecotr's trap would have done more good than harm. But TIM isn't used to work with people, he's used to use people.

[NeonFlux117]

TIM, Saren, cerberus, Rachni, exogeni,Sovereign, Shepard. They all have a common denominator. But people, aren't ready, According to James- "They'd rather believe in this, than see the TRUTH".

As Shepard would tell the player before leaving Earth (circa intro ME3) "Good Luck".

So you know, I'm sure TIM was on the up and up pre ME2 and ME3 right?

Right.

This platform currently has no new data available.

[Steelcan]

same thin he always did.

Fight the Reapers.

It just happened that he lost this fight in ME3

[shodiswe]

TIM was keept on a relatively laxated and free leash from the Reapers.

TIM was consolidating Cerberus pwoer and resources and the Reapers were pleased.
After the collectorbase they might have hit the "Assuming direct control" button on TIM seeing as he was getting disruptive and it was now time for the Reapers return and they needed their agents of Chaos to disrupt the normal operations of galactic governance to make their job easier.

[Steelcan]

shodiswe wrote...

TIM was keept on a relatively laxated and free leash from the Reapers.

TIM was consolidating Cerberus pwoer and resources and the Reapers were pleased.
After the collectorbase they might have hit the "Assuming direct control" button on TIM seeing as he was getting disruptive and it was now time for the Reapers return and they needed their agents of Chaos to disrupt the normal operations of galactic governance to make their job easier.

so.... when did they let him find a way to control them?

[shodiswe]

Steelcan wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

TIM was keept on a relatively laxated and free leash from the Reapers.

TIM was consolidating Cerberus pwoer and resources and the Reapers were pleased.
After the collectorbase they might have hit the "Assuming direct control" button on TIM seeing as he was getting disruptive and it was now time for the Reapers return and they needed their agents of Chaos to disrupt the normal operations of galactic governance to make their job easier.

so.... when did they let him find a way to control them?

They didn't thin khe or any of his udnerlings would suceed or one, secondly, it wouldn't matter sicne they already could control TIM when ever they wanted to.

They didn't like Mirandas father having access to the Reaper controling technology however since he was an unindoctrinated follower of TIM and therefor a possible threat that they couldn't control. Which is why they attacked his research station as soon as he reported actual progress to TIM.

Modifié par shodiswe, 01 septembre 2013 - 08:00 .

[Steelcan]

shodiswe wrote...

*snip*

.

So in other words all you have is

[Nashtalia]

i would say he was what he was saying from the beginning of ME2

1.survival at any cost
2.acquiring tech to enhance
3. making a fist in front of his face

[Erhank]

Actualy reasons are easy. TIM saw the reaper tech and lived some tragic events(timelime:first contact war from the comic). Then he dedicated to advance with that superior tech. TIM's goal was to obtain the reaper tech and with this humanity can be very strong(TIM's conditions). In ME2 this reasons was still active. In ME3 reasons still also active. But he want to obtain reapers, not to destroy(This his primary objective all along not to save earth or humans. He want humans superior, if not, everthing is meaningless to him). But he failed. He became indoctrinated.

[nos_astra]

isnudo wrote...
Not saying he's a trustworthy guy by any means, but I don't think there's any reason to assume he was lying about his goals in ME2. Save the colonies, thereby preserving 'umanity's foothold in the Termins Systems, and stop the Collectors, gaining info on the Reapers through them, not to mention a good look at the advanced tech the Collectors were known for having.

That doesn't sound too outrageous though I do think the means are ridiculous. What did he need Shepard for?
To lead a crew of random badasses? Really, because no one else in the galaxy has ever led a small strike team ... ever!

Totally worth spending a fortune on instead of an army and more ships. <_<

Modifié par klarabella, 02 septembre 2013 - 07:49 .

[KaiserShep]

It's entirely possible that The Illusive Man was a vastly more capable counterpart of Conrad Verner, and unlike Conrad, had the means to bring his idol back.

[GimmeDaGun]

It's simple: putting his hands on reaper technology in order to study them further and learn how to harness their power for his and humanity's good (at least that's what he thinks). The whole operation against the collector base is about that. He manipulates Shepard: he tries to show the good side of Cerberus in order to cover the truth from Shepard's eyes. He gives him a crew Shepard can trust and feel comfortable with but he puts one of his highest ranking officers and spies in order to monitor Shepard and send him reports about him.

So basically the plot of ME2 is the basis for ME3's conflict with Cerberus. I don't know why some poeple still think that the guy was a grey character in ME2? He was not evil per se, but his intentions were selfish, powerhungry and self righteous. He never was a good man or a real helper of Shepard in ME2. Even the most renegade Shepard realises that by the end of the game.

It's pretty obvious though: just watch all the permutations of his last convesation (in ME2) with Shepard. It makes it all clear.

Only time he shows that he really cares about humanity:
www.youtube.com/watch

Paragon: 
www.youtube.com/watch

Renegade:
www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 02 septembre 2013 - 08:53 .