105 réponses à ce sujet

[NoForgiveness]

If it does come back I hope at least they make it different then the dw rogue. I mean, I never used the dw warrior in dao mainly because it was the same exact tree that rogues had and I like the rogue specs better. It always felt pointless to even have dw(or archery actually) on the warrior. So I would prefer if the rogues were locked to daggers and warriors full sized weapons. Rogue dw and warrior dw trees should be a lot different as well.

[Lvl20DM]

I'll be curious to see how weapons are categorized in Inquisition. Will they be "swords" and "maces" and "daggers", or " one-handed" "two-handed" and "dual-wield".

[Mirrman70]

If it does come back I hope at least they make it different then the dw rogue. I mean, I never used the dw warrior in dao mainly because it was the same exact tree that rogues had and I like the rogue specs better. It always felt pointless to even have dw(or archery actually) on the warrior. So I would prefer if the rogues were locked to daggers and warriors full sized weapons. Rogue dw and warrior dw trees should be a lot different as well.

 

but making them different is what would make them not do it. It would take more time and money than not doing it. that time and money is better spent else where.

[Malanek]

If it does come back I hope at least they make it different then the dw rogue. I mean, I never used the dw warrior in dao mainly because it was the same exact tree that rogues had and I like the rogue specs better. It always felt pointless to even have dw(or archery actually) on the warrior. So I would prefer if the rogues were locked to daggers and warriors full sized weapons. Rogue dw and warrior dw trees should be a lot different as well.

They played very differently. With Warriors it was mainly about the attacking moves but with rogues it was the talent that increased attack speed, Momentum i think, and backstabbing. Two weapon warriors dealt a lot of up front damage, it wasn't weak. I like it when two different classes use the same set of skills in completely different combination of ways, it always seems like an elegant design.

[Malanek]

Warriors had momentum too.

 

The main difference was the top Rogue and Warrior trees. The stun and cunning dmg for rogue. And aggro management for warriors.

I know they had it. But it was of vital importance to rogues whereas with Warriors I can't even remember if you wanted it on all the time. They were about the special moves rather than basic attacking (and could use heavier weapons). Warriors could charge into a group and use the special moves to dish out lots of aoe damage or bring down stronger foes with single target special attacks. Rogues wanted a friend to distract them while they targeted a single enemy from behind. As I said, despite sharing 12 skills, they played completely differently.

[NoForgiveness]

I know they had it. But it was of vital importance to rogues whereas with Warriors I can't even remember if you wanted it on all the time. They were about the special moves rather than basic attacking (and could use heavier weapons). Warriors could charge into a group and use the special moves to dish out lots of aoe damage or bring down stronger foes with single target special attacks. Rogues wanted a friend to distract them while they targeted a single enemy from behind. As I said, despite sharing 12 skills, they played completely differently.

 

That's 12 things they had in common and 2 they had different(tanking vs. backstabbing). If your going for dps the rogue is better because of backstabs, and if your wanting to tank you should be using a shield. Whatever aoe and special single target attacks your talking about, rogues had them too and did more dmg because of backstabs. Its utterly useless to put the same tree in 2 classes when one class is superior with those skills. Now I am supporting dw warriors but only if their completely different, that's the only way it makes sense to have 2 DWers.

[n7stormrunner]

That's 12 things they had in common and 2 they had different(tanking vs. backstabbing). If your going for dps the rogue is better because of backstabs, and if your wanting to tank you should be using a shield. Whatever aoe and special single target attacks your talking about, rogues had them too and did more dmg because of backstabs. Its utterly useless to put the same tree in 2 classes when one class is superior with those skills. Now I am supporting dw warriors but only if their completely different, that's the only way it makes sense to have 2 DWers.

 

 

I'm calling b.s. on the grounds I prefer tankier dpsers and find them superior to glass cannons. 

[n7stormrunner]

Glass cannons only apply to mages. It doesn't matter with a rogue. They don't get hit much to begin with.

 

 

if they do though they fall almost as fast. it applies

[n7stormrunner]

No it doesn't apply at all.

 

If anything, they're an invisible cannon. Or a decoy cannon. Or something that doesn't look as interesting as a cannon and people turn their attention elsewhere.

 

 

I would argue the point but thats amusing enough I will not.

[NoForgiveness]

I'm calling b.s. on the grounds I prefer tankier dpsers and find them superior to glass cannons. 

 

If your dpser is getting hit enough to make any bit of difference, then that means your tank sucks and cant hold agro. DPS shouldn't have to worry about survivability too much because that's the point of the tank and healer. Its not like this is an mmo anyway, none of this **** matters this much. But the game would be much more fun if the classes weren't exactly the same(at least as far as DWing goes)

Modifié par Ratonhnhaketon01, 05 mai 2014 - 06:05 .

[n7stormrunner]

If your dpser is getting hit enough to make any bit of difference, then that means your tank sucks and cant hold agro. DPS shouldn't have to worry about survivability too much because that's the point of the tank and healer. Its not like this is an mmo anyway, none of this **** matters this much. But the game would be much more fun if the classes weren't exactly the same(at least as far as DWing goes)

 

your assuming of course I bothered to bring a tank at all... and A.I. tanks always suck. and they weren't exactly the same as rogue I had abilities no warrior had, same with a warrior the one tree was the same but the rest were not. this made for different gameplay... thats not counting the diffence between duel dagger, duel swords, and one of each.

[NoForgiveness]

your assuming of course I bothered to bring a tank at all... and A.I. tanks always suck. and they weren't exactly the same as rogue I had abilities no warrior had, same with a warrior the one tree was the same but the rest were not. this made for different gameplay... thats not counting the diffence between duel dagger, duel swords, and one of each.

 

ugh.. what the **** ever. None of this **** even matters anymore. Im just saying classes should always be really different. Overlapping or copy and pasting is a poor way to make them feel different. Locking rogues to daggers and warriors with swords and giving them each their own dw tree is a good way to make them feel a lot different from each other.
 

[n7stormrunner]

ugh.. what the **** ever. None of this **** even matters anymore. Im just saying classes should always be really different. Overlapping or copy and pasting is a poor way to make them feel different. Locking rogues to daggers and warriors with swords and giving them each their own dw tree is a good way to make them feel a lot different from each other.
 

 

 

I'm going say no, on the grounds. console and pc(who don't mod games) players will whine, and people who use mods will just mods so the can use the tree they like better. no point in wasting the devs time on trying to make the same style gameplay different when it being the same is the point.

 

oh  and you make or may not have noted people around here don't like the class locked weapon thing.

[NoForgiveness]

 no point in wasting the devs time on trying to make the same style gameplay different when it being the same is the point.

 

They wouldn't be "classes" if that were true....

 

And the people that don't like locked weapons are over reacting about nothing, because in reality who is gonna use a 2h sword on a rogue?

[DumSheeps]

Wow. i already planned my Qunari Inquisitor with big ass dual swords. I hope they announce DW warriors or i am in some trouble.

[n7stormrunner]

They wouldn't be "classes" if that were true....

 

And the people that don't like locked weapons are over reacting about nothing, because in reality who is gonna use a 2h sword on a rogue?

 

 

<--- has done that because he could, did quite well I'll have you know.

 

and there have been requests to get rid of classes as well...

[Malanek]

That's 12 things they had in common and 2 they had different(tanking vs. backstabbing). If your going for dps the rogue is better because of backstabs, and if your wanting to tank you should be using a shield. Whatever aoe and special single target attacks your talking about, rogues had them too and did more dmg because of backstabs. Its utterly useless to put the same tree in 2 classes when one class is superior with those skills. Now I am supporting dw warriors but only if their completely different, that's the only way it makes sense to have 2 DWers.

No, no, no. I had to dig up some old info and refresh myself with the specifics of the mechanics for this argument.

 

Firstly, backstabs, which gave the rogues their greatest amount of damage, would only occur with basic attacks. If you activated Punisher or Whirlwind, you would not get any backstab damage even if you were standing behind your opponent (and drain most of your stamina).

 

 

Secondly, rogues simply did not have talent points to buy heavily into the dual wield trees, or at least not if they wanted an efficient character. This is the talent allocation of a duel wield Assassin/Bard rogue from origins. It uses maximum extra talents from tomes etc. Level 17 is the first time a rogue could even consider taking the special moves as they started running out of "must haves". Note that this build doesn't take any lockpicking, stealth or ranged options and doesn't go all the way up the bard tree. If you wanted those, the special moves would get dropped altogether. I never picked most of them at all.

 

Level
0)    Dirty Fighting (no choice)
1)    Dual Weapon Sweep + Dual Weapon Training
2)     Flurry
3)     Below the Belt
4)     Momentum
5)     Combat Movement    + Dual Weapon Finesse (Need Dex=24)
6)     Deadly Strike
7)     Song of Valor
8)     Coup de Grace + #Lethality
9)     Distraction
10)     Song of Courage
11)     Dual Striking
12)     Riposte
13)    Evasion    (Need Dex=35)
14)    Mark of Death + #Exploit Weakness + #Lacerate
15)    Dual Weapon Expert
16)     Feast of the Fallen
17)     Whirlwind
18)     Cripple
19)    Punisher
20)    Dual Weapon Master

 

Thirdly, the resource system didn't support it. Rogues regained a small amount of stamina from each time they hit an enemy. They wanted a lot of cheap, fast attacks, and because of that could sustain the momentum talent, which constantly drained stamina. Warriors had more stamina but only regained it when killing enemies. They couldn't really leverage Momentum because cheap quick attacks didn't return stamina, and they didn't gain any backstab bonus making basic attacks a poor choice. In contrast a rogue couldn't really use special moves efficiently because they had less stamina and didn't get a good return for slower much more costly attacks.

 

So Rogues used Dual Wield primarily for Momentum, D-Training, D-Finese and D-Expert whereas a Warrior wanted it for everything except momentum.

 

The origins combat system could definitely have been deeper and had more options. But the dual wield part of it being shared between rogues and warriors was quite elegant. They played absolutely nothing alike.

[Treacherous J Slither]

DW Warriors are the only Warriors I play as in Dragon Age. The others just aren't my style.

 

Sadly they were removed in DA2. No more Warrior for me. I tried 2handed but couldn't get into it.

 

Hopefully they make a return in DAI.

 

Actually all weapons should be available to everyone. All armor, clothing, talents and skills too. There should just be 2 classes. Mage and mundane. Mages get exclusive access to magic obviously.

 

I say 2 classes because the only thing that really separates what a person can and cannot do is whether or not they can use magic naturally.

[Vearsin]

I'm hoping at the very least Tempest turns out to be a specialization for a more melee based rogue.