338 réponses à ce sujet

[The Heretic of Time]

The thing is that there should not be a "perfect" ending in the first place.

ME1's Virmire choice (who to save, Ashley or Kaidan?) is a perfect example of how choices and consequences really SHOULD be handled in video-games and how the endings should be planned out. No matter what you choose, you're ALWAYS going to win some and lose some. That is the very definition of a though choice.

[Maria Caliban]

BlueMagitek wrote...

The TC is asking for choices were you can't save everyone. 

No, the thread starter is complaining about choices where you can save everyone. If he'd just said 'I want some difficult choices where you lose something either way' this thread would have been people mostly agreeing.

Instead the first post is him saying that any instance of a choice where one is 'objectively' better than the others is inherently wrong.

[Cylan Cooper]

I think that stuff like this is the reason why Bioware chose to have health not regenerate after combat. When you see the red templars ransacking the town when you actually play, sure you COULD rush in and save the day with no backup from your soldiers, but you could potentially run through your stock of health and mana potions and be unable to save the keep.

[Cainhurst Crow]

ArtemisMoons wrote...

During the demo, they made it a point to say that you would not always have the choice to save both options. The keep/town one might be an exception to the rule and could have consequences to which we are not yet aware.

Or maybe not being able to save everyone is the exception to the norm. Just saying, not all the choices have to be so ham fisted and heavy handed with the "every choice leads to bad stuff!" like some games I could mention.

Speaking of which, I will laugh my ass off if we're given the option to give someone food, only for them to get immediately robbed.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 01 septembre 2013 - 07:28 .

[In Exile]

Cylanthegreat wrote...

I think that stuff like this is the reason why Bioware chose to have health not regenerate after combat. When you see the red templars ransacking the town when you actually play, sure you COULD rush in and save the day with no backup from your soldiers, but you could potentially run through your stock of health and mana potions and be unable to save the keep.

Unless you're good at the game, in which case all of this becomes irelevant and you remain as the godly engine of destruction all protagonists are. It's not a hard choice when you get everything perfect by just being good at the game. 

The difficult choice is "will I invest enough time to get the best ending or not" and not anything to do with morals. 

[Angrywolves]

Darrah said as much in his interview with Sessler.
You might see a fight and not get involved and later on find out you SHOULD have.
I sense a lot of multiple saves aka save often and a lot of resets.

[Cainhurst Crow]

OhNoJoe wrote...

The reality though, was simple:  ANYONE who actually gave a **** about the franchise paused the game, opened their internet browser, and googled 'suicide mission guide', and got everyone out.   

This is not true at all.
I would say that the people who really care about the franchise would play the game as intended, at least the first time through.

Yeah. Sure they would. Totally belive you everyone who really cared, and not just hardcore roleplayers, didn't do that.

[The Heretic of Time]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Or maybe not being able to save everyone is the exception to the norm. Just saying, not all the choices have to be so ham fisted and heavy handed with the "every choice leads to both good and bad stuff!" like some games I could mention The Witcher.

Fixed that post for you. 

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 01 septembre 2013 - 07:32 .

[Medhia Nox]

What popular work of fiction had a type of perfect ending being described? I would wager you would be hard pressed to find ANY work of fiction.

Even in fairy tales... The protagonist must give up "something".. Usually childhood ignorance. Just because that isn't enough for a bunch of sensory starved cynics doesn't mean it's sunshine and rainbows.

The notion that a celebratory worthy ending is inferior to a blood spattered pyrrhic ending might apply to you... But not to fiction as a whole.

I find the "everybody died look how edgy" ending to be far more immature male violence fantasy fulfillment than real quality fiction storytelling.

[PinkysPain]

Cimeas wrote...
Remember Mass Effect 2?  Bioware wanted you to lose someone.

Can I get a citation? (From  someone who isn't Mac or Casey.)

[The Heretic of Time]

Medhia Nox wrote...

What popular work of fiction had a type of perfect ending being described? I would wager you would be hard pressed to find ANY work of fiction.

Even in fairy tales... The protagonist must give up "something".. Usually childhood ignorance. Just because that isn't enough for a bunch of sensory starved cynics doesn't mean it's sunshine and rainbows.

How is giving up childhood ignorance a sacrifice? If anything, giving up your childhood ignorance is a GOOD thing.

Medhia Nox wrote...

The notion that a celebratory worthy ending is inferior to a blood spattered pyrrhic ending might apply to you... But not to fiction as a whole.

How about a "win some, lose some" middle ground ending, which is often the most mature kind of ending and the kind of ending that most mature stories have. 

Medhia Nox wrote...

I find the "everybody died look how edgy" ending to be far more immature male violence fantasy fulfillment than real quality fiction storytelling.

lol no.

[PinkysPain]

Maria Caliban wrote...
If he'd just said 'I want some difficult choices where you lose something either way this thread would have been people mostly agreeing.

Nope, I always want the choice to try to save everyone ... even if I lose everyone I'll keep picking that choice too, I'll just curse the writers a little more each time that happens.

Modifié par PinkysPain, 01 septembre 2013 - 07:52 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Or maybe not being able to save everyone is the exception to the norm. Just saying, not all the choices have to be so ham fisted and heavy handed with the "every choice leads to both good and bad stuff!" like some games I could mention The Witcher.

Fixed that post for you. 

If that were the case, wouldn't it be "every choice leads to getting laid"?

[PinkysPain]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
How about a "win some, lose some" middle ground ending, which is often the most mature kind of ending and the kind of ending that most mature stories have.

Eventually we all mature into worm food, I'm not in a hurry.

[The Heretic of Time]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Or maybe not being able to save everyone is the exception to the norm. Just saying, not all the choices have to be so ham fisted and heavy handed with the "every choice leads to both good and bad stuff!" like some games I could mention The Witcher.

Fixed that post for you. 

If that were the case, wouldn't it be "every choice leads to getting laid"?

No, getting laid in The Witcher is actually quite difficult, especially in The Witcher 2. 

In my first playthrough I wanted to bang Ves, but I totally f***ed it up. Luckily in a later playthrough I did it right. 

[frankf43]

Ultimashade wrote...

"Nobody should live because guides exist" is what I'm drawing from this. I don't care about the guides, so if the player spoils themselves then that's their problem. Why does it bother you?

But EA make about £18.50 each by selling the guide books. It would be financial madness to do away with them. You don't have to buy t hem if you don't want them.

Some people love the old D&D concept of wading through puzzles while the navigate a dungeon but others do not buy the game to sit through hours of working out puzzles, so they buy the guide book. Is it ruining the game for them if  they are not interested in pushing fifteen different stones to figure out how to open a door.
 
I don't use guide books myself but would not bemoan somebodies else's right to use them.  After all the buzz word of  the new game is choice.

[Fast Jimmy]

In Exile wrote...

Cylanthegreat wrote...

I think that stuff like this is the reason why Bioware chose to have health not regenerate after combat. When you see the red templars ransacking the town when you actually play, sure you COULD rush in and save the day with no backup from your soldiers, but you could potentially run through your stock of health and mana potions and be unable to save the keep.

Unless you're good at the game, in which case all of this becomes irelevant and you remain as the godly engine of destruction all protagonists are. It's not a hard choice when you get everything perfect by just being good at the game. 

The difficult choice is "will I invest enough time to get the best ending or not" and not anything to do with morals.  
 

Arguably, this is why people fought against the idea of implementing difficulty settings in the first place, that it can negate any sort of fear of failure, because if you can just drop the difficulty down, anything can be accomplished.

Not that I totally subscribe to that viewpoint, but it does pose the problem here - anyone can be good enough to kill everything in their way, so does it make sense to really gate off happy endings by just making the player work harder? Because the difficulty levels can make it not hard work at all. Which, in my mind, leads us back to less "all happiness" outcomes and more "personal choice of what you prefer" types of situations.  

[Cainhurst Crow]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Or maybe not being able to save everyone is the exception to the norm. Just saying, not all the choices have to be so ham fisted and heavy handed with the "every choice leads to both good and bad stuff!" like some games I could mention The Witcher.

Fixed that post for you. 

If that were the case, wouldn't it be "every choice leads to getting laid"?

No, getting laid in The Witcher is actually quite difficult, especially in The Witcher 2. 

In my first playthrough I wanted to bang Ves, but I totally f***ed it up. Luckily in a later playthrough I did it right. 

Just another case of witcher superiority it seems. XD

Whatever the case, I'm probably going to like it since I've liked what i've seen thus far and don't have much demands for dragon age inquisition outside of getting it's basics down.

[David7204]

I really hope we're not making serious claims that the Witcher is 'superior' on the grounds of 'getting laid is actually quite difficult.'

I hope it's as incredibly obvious to everyone else as it is to me that this claim is really just a laughable attempt to make 'getting laid' in a video game look like an actual accomplishment for Hanar instead of the reality he's trying his very best to deny. Sitting on a couch, staring at a screen, and pushing buttons on a plastic controller.

That's what it is.

Let's not delude ourselves. 'Getting laid' in the Witcher is doubtless incredibly easy for anyone on this forum.

Modifié par David7204, 01 septembre 2013 - 08:15 .

[crimzontearz]

David7204 wrote...

I really hope we're not making serious claims that the Witcher is 'superior' on the grounds of 'getting laid is actually quite difficult.'

I hope it's as incredibly obvious to everyone else as it is to me that this claim is really just a laughable attempt to make 'getting laid' in a video game look like an actual accomplishment for Hanar instead of the reality he's trying his very best to deny. Sitting on a couch, staring at a screen, and pushing buttons on a plastic controller.

That's what it is.

Let's not delude ourselves. 'Getting laid' in the Witcher is doubtless incredibly easy for anyone on this forum.

no...


 
But it is superior because Triss Marygold is a smoking hot redhead AND because TW2 has one of the best one line retorts in any games I've ever seen

[TheKomandorShepard]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Or maybe not being able to save everyone is the exception to the norm. Just saying, not all the choices have to be so ham fisted and heavy handed with the "every choice leads to both good and bad stuff!" like some games I could mention The Witcher.

Fixed that post for you. 

If that were the case, wouldn't it be "every choice leads to getting laid"?

No, getting laid in The Witcher is actually quite difficult, especially in The Witcher 2. 

In my first playthrough I wanted to bang Ves, but I totally f***ed it up. Luckily in a later playthrough I did it right. 

LoL how?
For first time you just need take one of 2 dialogues to end in bed with triss
well we also have abigail only what you need to do to take one of 2 dialogues.
to end in bed with triss second time well you have to do nothing you can't even prevent that.
to end in with adda you must just say one of two dialogues.
For rest of the time you have to give flowers or ring to end in somone bed eventually do simple quest.
oh sorry we have also different womens for 3 diffrents path you will take all you have to do is say hi. 

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 01 septembre 2013 - 08:32 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

David7204 wrote...

I really hope we're not making serious claims that the Witcher is 'superior' on the grounds of 'getting laid is actually quite difficult.'

I hope it's as incredibly obvious to everyone else as it is to me that this claim is really just a laughable attempt to make 'getting laid' in a video game look like an actual accomplishment for Hanar instead of the reality he's trying his very best to deny. Sitting on a couch, staring at a screen, and pushing buttons on a plastic controller.

That's what it is.

Let's not delude ourselves. 'Getting laid' in the Witcher is doubtless incredibly easy for anyone on this forum.

I see joking around isn't in your programing, mecha-david.

[David7204]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I really hope we're not making serious claims that the Witcher is 'superior' on the grounds of 'getting laid is actually quite difficult.'

I hope it's as incredibly obvious to everyone else as it is to me that this claim is really just a laughable attempt to make 'getting laid' in a video game look like an actual accomplishment for Hanar instead of the reality he's trying his very best to deny. Sitting on a couch, staring at a screen, and pushing buttons on a plastic controller.

That's what it is.

Let's not delude ourselves. 'Getting laid' in the Witcher is doubtless incredibly easy for anyone on this forum.

I see joking around isn't in your programing, mecha-david.

Hanar wasn't joking. And frankly, I'm not sure you were either. That's how it works, right? Say something stupid, someone points it out, pretend it was a joke?

Modifié par David7204, 01 septembre 2013 - 08:33 .

[The Heretic of Time]

David7204 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I really hope we're not making serious claims that the Witcher is 'superior' on the grounds of 'getting laid is actually quite difficult.'

I hope it's as incredibly obvious to everyone else as it is to me that this claim is really just a laughable attempt to make 'getting laid' in a video game look like an actual accomplishment for Hanar instead of the reality he's trying his very best to deny. Sitting on a couch, staring at a screen, and pushing buttons on a plastic controller.

That's what it is.

Let's not delude ourselves. 'Getting laid' in the Witcher is doubtless incredibly easy for anyone on this forum.

I see joking around isn't in your programing, mecha-david.

Hanar wasn't joking. And frankly, I'm not sure you were either. That's how it works, right? Say something stupid, someone points it out, pretend it was a joke?

Ohhhhh Davey you know me sooooo wel. <3


Actually I was joking (with a bit of truth in it as well, getting laid in The Witcher is actually harder than it is in Mass Effect).

Also, your canned ad-hominem responses are getting boring and tiresome. Try to come up with something new.