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Need advice in relationships


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#126
Sir DeLoria

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Steelcan wrote...

not the thread for this argument


You're right, sorry for going at it again. 

I'm just gonna leave a brief answer to Massively: the Quarian government was wrong to attack the Geth. But that doesn't justify the needless slaughter of Quarian civilians. Me bringing up children and infants isn't a fallacy, it's a valid point. Why did the Geth kill innocents? They resented the concept of collective punishment, why did they choose to usit on such a grand and horrific scale? What ever happened to those who were incarcerated for supporting the Geth after the Quarians had left? Why did the Geth attack and kill non-Quarian organics? In the grand picture I view the Geth as the far greater evil(neglecting the fact, that I don't see them as living beings anyway).

And no, I don't really argument that way because I "wanna bang/screw Tali"^_^

#127
Sir DeLoria

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The___Baron wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Oh the suit-rat debates never end, do they?


Which character originally used that line? Because it's perfect. Funny how Bioware can make fun of it themselves.

I think it was on the citadel when that volus was accusing that quarian of stealing his credit chip?
Or It might have been one of Talis comments in either ME 1 or 2. 


A Volus insulting a Quarian as a "suit rat" would be the most ironic comment in the series:lol:

#128
KaiserShep

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Worst industrial accident ever.

#129
The___Baron

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KaiserShep wrote...

So, how 'bout those Raloi? We should totally have a Raloi squad member for ME4.

Well if the Reaper threat has been dealt with, I see no reason not to include them. I wonder if the reapers would have spared them after they destroyed their satellites and retreated to their homeworld. They seem to have been leaving Yahg alone, thankfully fighting yahg husk would have been rather annoying.

Might as well have one LI of each species just because. 

Necanor wrote...
A Volus insulting a Quarian as a "suit rat" would be the most ironic comment in the series[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]


Suit mole vs Suit rat who will win! Find out next on the ANN.

Modifié par The___Baron, 01 septembre 2013 - 07:02 .


#130
Sir DeLoria

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spirosz wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Among a great deal of other things, you make a lot of double standards for the Quarians.


It's so true, haha.  His bitter "sweat" can't go to waste. 


It's an ethical thing, Geth aren't living beings to me, sorry. In the words of Ash "Easier to aim the gun at a stupid tin can than something that's basically a human"

#131
KaiserShep

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Legion would respond to that with "Our exterior shell is 78% polymer. Tin is an insufficient building material for our platforms. An example. The tin man of L. Frank Baum's Wizard of Oz suffers numerous mechanical failures when exposed to moisture."

#132
MassivelyEffective0730

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Necanor wrote...
I'm just gonna leave a brief answer to Massively: the Quarian government was wrong to attack the Geth. But that doesn't justify the needless slaughter of Quarian civilians.


No it doesn't. But you're leaving out the circumstances of the Geth. They were intellectually young. Primitive. Infantile. I made this point. The Geth reacted like any animal would react in a situation like that. They weren't capable yet of collectively distinguishing anything. To them, everyone was trying to kill them, and the only way they could react was to kill everyone else first. It's survivalism. I'm not saying it's right or wrong.

I'm saying that the Geth were essentially a panicked and enraged chimpanzee that is attacking for the means of self-preservation. It's not the best comparison, but at that point, the Geth were essentially a wild animal that had been provoked. The only way to stop being attacked is to kill everyone else. It's that kind of mentality.

Me bringing up children and infants isn't a fallacy, it's a valid point.


It's not a valid point. Besides, I already countered it. The extenuating circumstances were much more complicated than what you're prescribing to the situation.

Why did the Geth kill innocents?


Read above. I already addressed it.

They resented the concept of collective punishment, why did they choose to usit on such a grand and horrific scale?


Read above. I already addressed it.

What ever happened to those who were incarcerated for supporting the Geth after the Quarians had left?


They were presumably killed.... by the Quarians who imprisoned them. Or they died in the crossfire. Or as I said, the Geth weren't at a point to distinguish friend from foe, combatant from non-combatant.

Why did the Geth attack and kill non-Quarian organics?


Read above. Post-war, the Geth developed into a quasi-rogue state because of how they were viewed by the galaxy of organics. Suspicion, fear, and ignorance breeds... suspicion, fear, and ignorance. That said, they never left the Perseus Veil until after Sovereign had made its offer. And those were the Heretics.

In the grand picture I view the Geth as the far greater evil(neglecting the fact, that I don't see them as living beings anyway).


I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that I feel the Quarians, while not necessarily evil, were the far greater idiots to blame for the entirety of the problem. Based on suspicion, fear, and ignorance that organics are prone to. That's the underlying cause. 

And that's your own perogative, though I would make a case for saying it's rather limited. Why don't you view the Geth as living beings?

And no, I don't really argument that way because I "wanna bang/screw Tali"^_^


You're right. Typically, you don't really make an argument at all.

#133
MassivelyEffective0730

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Necanor wrote...

spirosz wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Among a great deal of other things, you make a lot of double standards for the Quarians.


It's so true, haha.  His bitter "sweat" can't go to waste. 


It's an ethical thing, Geth aren't living beings to me, sorry. In the words of Ash "Easier to aim the gun at a stupid tin can than something that's basically a human"


Why don't you view them as living beings?

#134
Guest_StreetMagic_*

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I view them as living beings and potential lamp fixtures.

Why can't they be both?

#135
MassivelyEffective0730

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Define a living being.

#136
Sir DeLoria

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MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Necanor wrote...

spirosz wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
Among a great deal of other things, you make a lot of double standards for the Quarians.


It's so true, haha.  His bitter "sweat" can't go to waste. 


It's an ethical thing, Geth aren't living beings to me, sorry. In the words of Ash "Easier to aim the gun at a stupid tin can than something that's basically a human"

Why don't you view them as living beings?

Didn't we talk about this about two dozen times before?

#137
Guest_StreetMagic_*

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MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Define a living being.


I don't know why I should even care to predicate an argument on that. "Respect for life".. Pfft. Honestly, I can't live up to that, so why bother.

I just hate a chili cheeseburger. It was delicious. It was created from the materials of a real living being. Ask me if I give a ****.

I don't predicate my capacity for feeling sympathy for Legion on whether he's a living being or not. It comes down to if I simply like him.

Modifié par StreetMagic, 01 septembre 2013 - 07:25 .


#138
Abraham_uk

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MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Define a living being.


Can of worms. Sorry, but this is actually a debate that has been raged over for centuries.

So let me just quote this site.
This is not a perfect definition since it doesn't cover synthetics, but it will do.

#139
Sir DeLoria

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I'm just purposely not gonna go into that debate, I don't want to ruin another thread with it.

#140
MassivelyEffective0730

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StreetMagic wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Define a living being.


I don't know why I should even care to predicate an argument on that. "Respect for life".. Pfft. Honestly, I can't live up to that, so why bother.

I just hate a chili cheeseburger. It was delicious. It was created from the materials of a real living being. Ask me if I give a ****.

I don't predicate my capacity for feeling sympathy for Legion on whether he's a living being or not. It comes down to if I simply like him.


This was aimed in a more rhetorical manner, and not at any one person here specifically. 

I think your perspective is intriguing however. And that's how I believe a lot of view down here come down to on the Geth and the Quarians for instance.

#141
The___Baron

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StreetMagic wrote...

I view them as living beings and potential lamp fixtures.

Why can't they be both?

They're leaving beings with the added benefit at being able to inhabit just about anything thing we enough processing power far to usefull to try to wipe out, think of how quickly they could speed up production lines, you could be popping out cruisers faster then reapers can replace their destroyers and captial ships. Provided they had acess to the raw materials. 

Besides getting the Geth and Quarians to stop fighting each other is a satisfying way to give Harbinger the finger.

"I created synthetics to wipe out organics to stop them from creating synthetics that would then wipe out the organics so that more organics can evolve and eventualy be wiped out by my synthetics to stop organics from being wiped out by synthetics" Or what ever stupid reasoning the reapers operate by. 

"There can never be peace between organics and synthetics"

K but I just ended a 300 year long war and convinced a crap ton of synthetics to come help us fight you... 

They should add a romanceable HK er I mean Geth into ME4 just becuase, hell they already did that with EDI and joker...

#142
jtav

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By the standards of the 'verse, the geth are as alive as the quarians (my own metaphysics got shattered somewhere around Lazarus, so I take the story on its own terms). I pity them, and Rannoch made me absolutely sick on my last playthrough. I wanted peace badly because both sides are wrong and have been wronged.

#143
Steelcan

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jtav wrote...

By the standards of the 'verse, the geth are as alive as the quarians

Not really. 

#144
The___Baron

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It doesn't matter whether you consider synthetics as living beings.

It's a matter of sentience

Organics = Livings beings
Synthetics = Programs inhabiting machines

Either way both can be Sentient.

#145
MassivelyEffective0730

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Steelcan wrote...

jtav wrote...

By the standards of the 'verse, the geth are as alive as the quarians

Not really. 


Actually, yes. There really is nothing in the ME 'verse to say that organics are any more alive than synthetics (or vice versa).

#146
Steelcan

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MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

jtav wrote...

By the standards of the 'verse, the geth are as alive as the quarians

Not really. 


Actually, yes. There really is nothing in the ME 'verse to say that organics are any more alive than synthetics (or vice versa).

Besides their inability to understand anything about us?

#147
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It still doesn't matter if they're sentient. I have no problem killing sentient beings either. There's plenty I'd like to kill right now, if I could get away with it. Unfortunately, there's too much paperwork involved when it comes to killing in the modern world. :\\

Seriously though, it just comes down to preference/bias/friendship. Not philosophy.

#148
The___Baron

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Steelcan wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

jtav wrote...

By the standards of the 'verse, the geth are as alive as the quarians

Not really. 


Actually, yes. There really is nothing in the ME 'verse to say that organics are any more alive than synthetics (or vice versa).

Besides their inability to understand anything about us?

Doesn't seem to be hampering EDI's ability to coexist with the Normandys crew

#149
Jorji Costava

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Steelcan wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

jtav wrote...

By the standards of the 'verse, the geth are as alive as the quarians

Not really. 


Actually, yes. There really is nothing in the ME 'verse to say that organics are any more alive than synthetics (or vice versa).

Besides their inability to understand anything about us?


By this standard, people with autism or serious mental handicaps wouldn't count as alive; that doesn't seem right. Also, how did a thread entitled "Need advice in relationships" end up being yet another Geth/Quarian thread?

#150
Steelcan

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The___Baron wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

jtav wrote...

By the standards of the 'verse, the geth are as alive as the quarians

Not really. 


Actually, yes. There really is nothing in the ME 'verse to say that organics are any more alive than synthetics (or vice versa).

Besides their inability to understand anything about us?

Doesn't seem to be hampering EDI's ability to coexist with the Normandys crew

She's equipment not crew