72 réponses à ce sujet

[Ravensword]

Steelcan wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Renegade choices being 'bad' isn't a problem in the slightest.

Renegade =/= bad though.  Renegade is a "realist" approach, Machiavellian, if you prefer.

Renegade is not generally pragmatic, or at least not any more than Paragon is. 

I disagree,

sacrificing the council, killing the rachni, selling Legion, keeping the CB, sabotaging the cure, and killing/imprisoning Balak are much more pragmatic than their paragon equivalents.

Unless saving the Council is done for the purpose of securing good will from the various aliens accross the galaxy. How many people actually saved the Council at the cost of thousands of human lives did so b/c they wanted to save the lives of three idiots?

I saved them because the Destiny Ascension has one big ass gun on it.  Could use that against the reapers.

That too.

[Steelcan]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

I don't know why killing the Rachni queen, selling Legion or killing Balak are pragmatic, and those aren't the only choices in the game.

It solves the issue of the rachni immediately, no what if's or what might happen.

Selling Legion is an unprecedented opportunity to study geth technology.

Killing Balak prevents him from ever threatening another human colony/interest.

[TheMyron]

Ravensword wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Renegade choices being 'bad' isn't a problem in the slightest.

Renegade =/= bad though.  Renegade is a "realist" approach, Machiavellian, if you prefer.

Renegade is not generally pragmatic, or at least not any more than Paragon is. 

I disagree,

sacrificing the council, killing the rachni, selling Legion, keeping the CB, sabotaging the cure, and killing/imprisoning Balak are much more pragmatic than their paragon equivalents.

Unless saving the Council is done for the purpose of securing good will from the various aliens accross the galaxy. How many people actually saved the Council at the cost of thousands of human lives did so b/c they wanted to save the lives of three idiots?

I think There were also thousands of other kinds of people on that ship.

[Ravensword]

TheMyron wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Renegade choices being 'bad' isn't a problem in the slightest.

Renegade =/= bad though.  Renegade is a "realist" approach, Machiavellian, if you prefer.

Renegade is not generally pragmatic, or at least not any more than Paragon is. 

I disagree,

sacrificing the council, killing the rachni, selling Legion, keeping the CB, sabotaging the cure, and killing/imprisoning Balak are much more pragmatic than their paragon equivalents.

Unless saving the Council is done for the purpose of securing good will from the various aliens accross the galaxy. How many people actually saved the Council at the cost of thousands of human lives did so b/c they wanted to save the lives of three idiots?

I think There were also thousands of other kinds of people on that ship.

More humans were sacrificed to save the Destiny Ascension.

[David7204]

As far as Shepard knew, Saren was already dead at the time. The fleet would have an opportunity to attack Sovereign regardless. Saving 10,000 people over 2,400? And the Council? An easy choice.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

As far as Shepard knew, Saren was already dead at the time. The fleet would have an opportunity to attack Sovereign regardless. Saving 10,000 people over 2,400? And the Council? An easy choice.

Spare as many of your own ships as you can for the final push to kill Sovereign, don't throw them away. 

And I do save them, very regrettably.

[David7204]

'Thrown away'? Saving 10,000 people is 'throwing away' ships? No.

[Ravensword]

David7204 wrote...

As far as Shepard knew, Saren was already dead at the time. The fleet would have an opportunity to attack Sovereign regardless. Saving 10,000 people over 2,400? And the Council? An easy choice.

Save the 10,000 people. I feel bad for the 2,397.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

'Thrown away'? Saving 10,000 people is 'throwing away' ships? No.

Yes it is.  Those ships are more valuable killing Sovereign than saving those other people.  let them die to give yourself a better chance to take out Sovereign and prevent the Reapers from coming.

[David7204]

Saren is dead. He's no longer at the control console. So what if Sovereign is perched on the Citadel?

Saving the Council saves 10,000 people. Letting them die only saves 2,400.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

Saren is dead. He's no longer at the control console. So what if Sovereign is perched on the Citadel?

Saving the Council saves 10,000 people. Letting them die only saves 2,400.

Saren was only needed to open and close the arms.  After that Sovereign has control.

Saving the Council is a risk, hoping that we can take out Sovereign before the Reapers come with a reduced fleet strength.

Sacrificing them gives you a better chance to stop the Reapers.

[The Night Mammoth]

Steelcan wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

I don't know why killing the Rachni queen, selling Legion or killing Balak are pragmatic, and those aren't the only choices in the game.

It solves the issue of the rachni immediately, no what if's or what might happen.

It also kills any potentially advantageous cooperation with them.

Selling Legion is an unprecedented opportunity to study geth technology.

Likewise, keeping Legion alive is an unprecedented opportunity to actually talk with a geth. Talking with a geth is much more useful than just studying a geth platform, Cerberus can have a hundred of those from Haestrom and the numerous battles in the first game, and project Overlord. 

Killing Balak prevents him from ever threatening another human colony/interest.

Killing Balak also loses his and the rest of the batarian people's help against the Reapers.

[Steelcan]

1. The rachni tried to conquer the galaxy once, I'd rather not risk it happening again.

2. There is no reason to believe that when choosing not to sell/sell him. The in game argument is that he should be interrogated/given up for research.

3. Not on BDtS. I killed him and still got Batarian assets.

[TheMyron]

After curing the genophage, I would need something to control the Krogan population until a way to greatly reduce Krogan ovulation is found. That's the bigger reason to save the real Rachni.

Wrex did say that his people took millions of deaths in the war against the Rachni.

[The Heretic of Time]

David7204 wrote...

Saren is dead. He's no longer at the control console. So what if Sovereign is perched on the Citadel?

Saving the Council saves 10,000 people. Letting them die only saves 2,400.

It saves 2400 soldiers.

2400 soldiers are more useful in a war than 10.000 civilians.


Besides, the galaxy is better off without that dumb trio. It was due time we got a new, more capable council.

[The Heretic of Time]

TheMyron wrote...

After curing the genophage, I would need something to control the Krogan population until a way to greatly reduce Krogan ovulation is found. That's the bigger reason to save the real Rachni.

Wrex did say that his people took millions of deaths in the war against the Rachni.

1. Kill the Rachni queen.
2. DON'T cure the genophage.
3. ????
4. PROFIT!

Really, why take all those risks and chances while those problems can easily be solved the easy way by simply not releasing the rachni queen and by simply not curing the genophage?

In other words: yes Renegade clearly is more pragmatic than Paragon.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 02 septembre 2013 - 12:10 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Besides, the galaxy is better off without that dumb trio. It was due time we got a new, more capable council.

The Shepard I play who doesn't save the Council is sitting in the rubble of the Citadel after firing the Crucible, still waiting for this new and more capable Council.

[The Heretic of Time]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Besides, the galaxy is better off without that dumb trio. It was due time we got a new, more capable council.

The Shepard I play who doesn't save the Council is sitting in the rubble of the Citadel after firing the Crucible, still waiting for this new and more capable Council.

Your Shepard is dead son.

My Shepard who didn't save the council wanted a new council dominated by humans. Since he didn't get his human council due to BioWare not caring about choices and consequences, he decided to take matters into own hands and is now leading the galaxy as the new reaper overlord.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 02 septembre 2013 - 12:00 .

[Sir DeLoria]

I don't give a damn about the council, but the Destiny Ascension is a mighty fine dreadnought...

[The Night Mammoth]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Besides, the galaxy is better off without that dumb trio. It was due time we got a new, more capable council.

The Shepard I play who doesn't save the Council is sitting in the rubble of the Citadel after firing the Crucible, still waiting for this new and more capable Council.

Your Shepard is dead son.

My Shepard who didn't save the council wanted a new council dominated by humans. Since he didn't get his human council due to BioWare not caring about choices and consequences, he decided to take matters into own hands and is now leading the galaxy as the new reaper overlord.

The Council has been around for nearly three thousand years. Your Shepard had incredibly unrealistic expectations if they wanted humans, who've been around for three decades, to dominate the most powerful organisation in the galaxy just because the current Councilors bought it. 

[Seboist]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

1. Kill the Rachni queen.
2. DON'T cure the genophage.
3. ????
4. PROFIT!

Good choices there, I also wiped out the Geth. Although it's a shame we can't gain control them and use them to wipe out the Quarians.

Human dominance ftw.

[Sir DeLoria]

I wiped out all life on Earth, so much for human dominance...

[NeroonWilliams]

Ravensword wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Renegade choices being 'bad' isn't a problem in the slightest.

Renegade =/= bad though.  Renegade is a "realist" approach, Machiavellian, if you prefer.

Renegade is not generally pragmatic, or at least not any more than Paragon is. 

I disagree,

sacrificing the council, killing the rachni, selling Legion, keeping the CB, sabotaging the cure, and killing/imprisoning Balak are much more pragmatic than their paragon equivalents.

Unless saving the Council is done for the purpose of securing good will from the various aliens accross the galaxy. How many people actually saved the Council at the cost of thousands of human lives did so b/c they wanted to save the lives of three idiots?

There are THREE ways to go on the decision wheel when it comes time to save the Council.  One of them is to save the Council (which could also be interpreted as save the Destiny Ascension), one is hold back because stopping Sovereign is the only goal that matters, and the third literally says "Screw the Council".  While the middle choice does result in the death of the Council, the third choice is most definitely Renegade in that killing the Council is the goal.