128 réponses à ce sujet

[Hiemoth]

I'm personally more concerned on party balancing issues or if this gives slightly unintentional benefit for mage players if they will be able to heal. A thing I liked in DA2 was that the game balance was so that even if I didn't drag Anders with me while playing a warrior or a rogue, I could still do just fine, of course partially due to the healing potion regulation in it, while in Origins not having Wynne with me, especially around the halfway point of the game, really made things difficult. I perhaps see that this decision kind of forces the player to carry that healer with them constantly if they wish to get more encounters to build up their character strength.

On the other hand, I can kind of see why they want to enforce this, especially with the wider areas, and I kind of respect wanting to make the player think before going on that slaughtering rampage just for the kicks of it while rewarding for finding ways to avoid the combat. Still, as I just recently replayerd the BG games, I really hope they do it better than it was done there, because that was just annoying on so many levels.

[ev76]

@Bekkael I just kept fighting things to keep me busy, the combat was good enough for me to keep me interested. I still remember my first encounter with a dragon only to run because it was to powerful and getting killed by a lion/goat/snake monter.

Well saw your tweet interaction with mr.Laidlaw hope he pops in the thread during the week or they release more info in the future. Also like you I'm sure I will thoroughly enjoy inquisition.

[motleykroot]

Glad this thread exists, been thinking about this on and off all day.
I like the bioware-stated implications of the no-regen mechanic, even though I'm worried about the same tedium/back-and-forth/keep is burning down but I ran out of potions-kind of problems people brought up.

Things I'm also curious about:
-Are health potions on a cooldown, ala DA2?
-Do mana and/or stamina regenerate, or are they strictly potion dependent now too?
-If yes, does that mean it's more efficient to burn lyrium/whatever through a healer between fights?
-If no, does that mean long cooldowns or limited effect on healing abilities?
-Cast from HP specs, like Blood Mage and Reaver, seem a lot less appealing if using them *at all* means more potion consumption and thus a shorter time-between-hikes-to-camp. Would that mean making them proportionally more powerful?

Would love to hear if anybody has heard any solutions to these or thoughts in general.

Modifié par motleykroot, 02 septembre 2013 - 01:56 .

[Bekkael]

Still, as I just recently replayerd the BG games, I really hope they do it better than it was done there, because that was just annoying on so many levels.

I've never played a game that had that where it wasn't a drag. Maybe I'll be wrong and it will be awesome, but based on my past experience I sorta doubt it.

@ev76 I ran away from lots of chimeras, as well as griffons, dragons, gorecyclops... It's fun to finally be strong enough to kill them all.

It was nice of Mr. Laidlaw to respond. I don't often get responses to my tweets.

[dorianpervus]

Im happy they don't have health regen. It's more realistic. And yes, I agree health regen is dumb.

And don't cry your eyes out because if you don't agree with me I'm sure there will be a mod out before you know it to supply you with unlimited health potions. Hooray!

I'm sure there will be a spirit healer spec. Bioware isn't foolish enough to have no health regen AND no spirit healer spec.

[Bekkael]

And don't cry your eyes out because if you don't agree with me I'm sure there will be a mod out before you know it to supply you with unlimited health potions. Hooray!

That is empty reassurance for console players, since we can't mod. >_<

[Bekkael]

motleykroot wrote...

Glad this thread exists, been thinking about this on and off all day.
I like the bioware-stated implications of the no-regen mechanic, even though I'm worried about the same tedium/back-and-forth/keep is burning down but I ran out of potions-kind of problems people brought up.

Things I'm also curious about:
-Are health potions on a cooldown, ala DA2?
-Do mana and/or stamina regenerate, or are they strictly potion dependent now too?
-If yes, does that mean it's more efficient to burn lyrium/whatever through a healer between fights?
-If no, does that mean long cooldowns or limited effect on healing abilities?
-Cast from HP specs, like Blood Mage and Reaver, seem a lot less appealing if using them *at all* means more potion consumption and thus a shorter time-between-hikes-to-camp. Would that mean making them proportionally more powerful?

Would love to hear if anybody has heard any solutions to these or thoughts in general.

Those are excellent and very valid questions. I loved playing a Blood Mage in DA2, but without health regen that doesn't really sound possible, does it? Especially since when you are actively using Blood Magic, you could not be healed by conventional means. A skill like Reaver that let you suck health however, would be even more useful in a DAI setting. I hope they will bring that back.

I read from the people who are at PAX that the devs told them that mana will regen. As to how much or how quickly, I do not think those details are known or perhaps have not even been decided on yet.

[dorianpervus]

Bekkael wrote...

And don't cry your eyes out because if you don't agree with me I'm sure there will be a mod out before you know it to supply you with unlimited health potions. Hooray!

That is empty reassurance for console players, since we can't mod. >_<

I think the majority (not just BSN) of DA players are PC. However, I could be wrong but that's my conclusion.

For console players, all I can say is, deal. Fill you're party with mages and heal with all your might. 

[DarthLaxian]

TeamLexana wrote...

Are the potions at the keep going to be limited? That makes it worse, doesn't it? You could be severally punished for exploring because now its possible that you have NO POTIONS AT ALL for the story mission that you NEED in order to progress further and get more xp so that you can hit up the dungeons that were scaled too high when first discovering them.

Thats sounds tedius as hell. NO LIKE.

exactly - for me going into a fight injured is a no go, so i wont do it, so the game actually forces me to:

either cheat (get myself virtually unlimited potions or use (if they have that for testing purposes) a "heal-party" command)

or:

stop after each bigger (and even smaller fights, you always lose some HP, even if it is only say 5% or something) to heal (if you can heal with magic outside of combat)

both of course break immersion for me (i mean in RL, if you don't get hit seriously (a shallow cut here and there for example) you have "regenerating" health, meaning you have not problem continuing, in the game losing even 5% of your HP is damage that is not healing at all (if you don't have health-regeneration) and losing that health every fight, you can be killed even by minor mooks, if there are enough of them and that is not fun at all IMHO)

greetings LAX
ps: "no health-regenration" really is a dinosaur and should be retired to a museum IMHO (i remember shooters where i was badly damaged and could not continue till i ran half the level back, to where the last health-package had dropped (and i was so dead, if there was a despawn-timer for those!)...that's not fun!)

[dorianpervus]

motleykroot wrote...

Glad this thread exists, been thinking about this on and off all day.
I like the bioware-stated implications of the no-regen mechanic, even though I'm worried about the same tedium/back-and-forth/keep is burning down but I ran out of potions-kind of problems people brought up.

Things I'm also curious about:
-Are health potions on a cooldown, ala DA2?
-Do mana and/or stamina regenerate, or are they strictly potion dependent now too?
-If yes, does that mean it's more efficient to burn lyrium/whatever through a healer between fights?
-If no, does that mean long cooldowns or limited effect on healing abilities?
-Cast from HP specs, like Blood Mage and Reaver, seem a lot less appealing if using them *at all* means more potion consumption and thus a shorter time-between-hikes-to-camp. Would that mean making them proportionally more powerful?

Would love to hear if anybody has heard any solutions to these or thoughts in general.

In the demo mana regens. 

[Cyr8]

The only way I'd be happy with the no health regen thing is if there are lots of health potions, ie no limits in how many you can make/hold at one time, no limits on how often they can be used (no cooldown), and if you can use them outside combat.

If you can't do that and have to find some stupid inn to sleep in like some stupid RPG from the 90s then I will be pissed. And you can be sure it will ding the review scores, too.

[Bekkael]

But who asked for no health regen? Who?! I don't remember seeing this in a list of faults of previous DA games. Did anyone ask for this, or is this something the devs decided would be fun and nostalgic for DAI?

[motleykroot]

LikesThingsHatesStuff wrote...

motleykroot wrote...
...

In the demo mana regens. 

Good catch. Maybe it'll stay that way for another 14 months or so.

[mupp3tz]

Bekkael wrote...

But who asked for no health regen? Who?! I don't remember seeing this in a list of faults of previous DA games. Did anyone ask for this, or is this something the devs decided would be fun and nostalgic for DAI?

It could just be something they saw as a good idea in a more open world that emphasis exploration and it's dangers. I don't see it as an inherently bad thing and really don't think it will be as burdensome as some people think.

[Bekkael]

LikesThingsHatesStuff wrote...

Bekkael wrote...

And don't cry your eyes out because if you don't agree with me I'm sure there will be a mod out before you know it to supply you with unlimited health potions. Hooray!

That is empty reassurance for console players, since we can't mod. >_<

I think the majority (not just BSN) of DA players are PC. However, I could be wrong but that's my conclusion.

For console players, all I can say is, deal. Fill you're party with mages and heal with all your might. 

Your compassion and understanding take my breath away. Where did that label of PC elitist ever come from, I wonder?

And if they severely restrict the amount of healing your mages can do, what then? If we can use mages to heal, I am perfectly fine with it and have no complaint, but if they have restricted it to affect the difficulty then that sucks donkey balls.

[Bekkael]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

Bekkael wrote...

But who asked for no health regen? Who?! I don't remember seeing this in a list of faults of previous DA games. Did anyone ask for this, or is this something the devs decided would be fun and nostalgic for DAI?

It could just be something they saw as a good idea in a more open world that emphasis exploration and it's dangers. I don't see it as an inherently bad thing and really don't think it will be as burdensome as some people think.

If we are comparing to Skyrim, I could drink potions while casting a healing spell while I was exploring, if needed.

[mupp3tz]

Good ole multitasking haha. But, really, I doubt the no regen will make some huge dramatic change. Bioware isn't one for making difficult games. I'm expecting it to be a minor nuance. Having to go to town once in awhile instead of just plowing through the game might also mean more dynamic hubs.

[sickpixie]

Bekkael wrote...

But who asked for no health regen? Who?! I don't remember seeing this in a list of faults of previous DA games. Did anyone ask for this, or is this something the devs decided would be fun and nostalgic for DAI?

A lot of people have complained about how so much of the combat has no purpose. This is one of the ways they chose to address that issue. They could have gone with others, but I don't believe there's anything they could have done that wouldn't upset somebody.

[Bekkael]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

Good ole multitasking haha. But, really, I doubt the no regen will make some huge dramatic change. Bioware isn't one for making difficult games. I'm expecting it to be a minor nuance. Having to go to town once in awhile instead of just plowing through the game might also mean more dynamic hubs.

From your lips to devs ears. I'm not a complainer by nature, and I honestly love almost everything about the Dragon Age games, so I hope this won't be a big deal and they will give us tangible ways to deal with it that don't involve camping constantly. Maybe they could let us pick and munch on herbs to recover small bits of health when we have no potion and just really aren't at a point where it's convenient to turn around and go home. Dragon's Dogma had such herbs, and while I didn't love that option it was certainly better than nothing.

This could be fretting for nothing if our healing mages remain as they were in DA:O and DA2 and don't get their powers gimped...

[S_i_d_e_winder]

So instead of health regen, you have to play the game like this:
Kill enemies...save game1...3 health potions remaining...move to next location
kill enemies...save game2...1 health potion remaining...move to next location
Lose boss battle...reload save game2
Lose boss battle...reload save game2
Lose boss battle...get annoyed...reload save game1 to get 3 health potions back
kill enemies...save game2...2 health potion remaining
Lose boss battle...reload save game2
Lose boss battle...reload save game2
rage quit

[MKDAWUSS]

KOTOR: Low health - Jedi Heal - AFK as Force Power regenerates - Jedi Heal - AFK some more - Jedi Heal...

[Bekkael]

S_i_d_e_winder wrote...

So instead of health regen, you have to play the game like this:
Kill enemies...save game1...3 health potions remaining...move to next location
kill enemies...save game2...1 health potion remaining...move to next location
Lose boss battle...reload save game2
Lose boss battle...reload save game2
Lose boss battle...get annoyed...reload save game1 to get 3 health potions back
kill enemies...save game2...2 health potion remaining
Lose boss battle...reload save game2
Lose boss battle...reload save game2
rage quit

I don't want to do that.

[S_i_d_e_winder]

I'll guess we'll see. It's been a while since I've played DAo and Da2 but if I remember, the battles seemed to ramp up.

First battle in a dungeon, easy. Second harder, but manageable. Third, whoa! Where'd all that come from? How did everyone die so quick? Wave after wave of low-level minions, a handful of mid-level demons, buffed-up boss. How'd my mage get one-shotted? Why was the tank way over there? I thought I had this?

[Archereon]

I really can't understand WHY people would want health regeneration. It removes the challenge of resource management from the game if crucial resources (in this case basically health) aren't consumable, and while that's fine for certain games, BioWare is putting a big emphasis on exploration, which kind of looses it's charm a bit without resource management.

It also introduces a big source of tedium if it's slow but still there, even in an indirect fashion such as healing then waiting for mana to regenerate. Honestly, if you've burned up all your resources, you should be forced to either find a way to restock, start over, and make do without them through clever strategies or better yet, use of diplomacy and subterfuge when faced with a situation you won't be able to win with your current resources.

[Bekkael]

S_i_d_e_winder wrote...

I'll guess we'll see. It's been a while since I've played DAo and Da2 but if I remember, the battles seemed to ramp up.

First battle in a dungeon, easy. Second harder, but manageable. Third, whoa! Where'd all that come from? How did everyone die so quick? Wave after wave of low-level minions, a handful of mid-level demons, buffed-up boss. How'd my mage get one-shotted? Why was the tank way over there? I thought I had this?

I remember having similar experiences, especially in DA:O. I hate dying/reloading though, so I hope I can find a way to head that off.