128 réponses à ce sujet

[dorianpervus]

Bekkael wrote...

But who asked for no health regen? Who?! I don't remember seeing this in a list of faults of previous DA games. Did anyone ask for this, or is this something the devs decided would be fun and nostalgic for DAI?

They have repeatedly talked about Baldur's Gate so I assume they are going back to that. Baldur's Gate didn't have health regen and was more tactical. A lot of the initial audience for DA was the people who played BG and NWN. 

[Bekkael]

Archereon wrote...

I really can't understand WHY people would want health regeneration. It removes the challenge of resource management from the game if crucial resources (in this case basically health) aren't consumable, and while that's fine for certain games, BioWare is putting a big emphasis on exploration, which kind of looses it's charm a bit without resource management.

It also introduces a big source of tedium if it's slow but still there, even in an indirect fashion such as healing then waiting for mana to regenerate. Honestly, if you've burned up all your resources, you should be forced to either find a way to restock, start over, and make do without them through clever strategies or better yet, use of diplomacy and subterfuge when faced with a situation you won't be able to win with your current resources.

Great! That's what you like. That's not what I like at all, and I'm not alone. Further, DA games have always had health regen, so this seems like an abrupt and unwelcome change (based on experiences with other games).

It's even worse for those of us who play on xbox/playstation because we cannot use mods or console commands, so are stuck with the game exactly as it's presented, whether we like it or not.

[aphelion4]

I have to deal with resource management as a healer in MMOs. I don't play a game like DA to worry about stupid things like resource management. I play games like this to get away from it, to have fun on my own. Because quite frankly, resource management is just not fun. Please keep it away from Mana, and if you must remove it, please remove Stamina regen for Warriors and Rogues. If I have to auto attack and lack access to my big flashy abilities, you guys better lack it too. :>

As for Health not regenerating, at least it's not Stamina/Mana. Yet.

Modifié par aphelion4, 02 septembre 2013 - 03:13 .

[Illeuad]

I'm fine with there not being health regen -- seems to confirm that we're not going to have to go through grindy encounters like we did in 2.

[S_i_d_e_winder]

We don't need health regen, we just have to work around the consequences of not having it.

Do you use a health potion at the end of a battle to top off, or wait for the next battle to see what you're up against?

Assuming tactics work the same, does a mage fire off a group heal spell at the beginning of each battle, which if they're a nuke, kind of stops them in their tracks until a mana regen or potion.

We can live without it, but if it's done poorly, you just end up playing the game as a resource manager instead of roaming around just to see what's on the other side of that hilltop.

It just doesn't sound as exciting.

[Bekkael]

aphelion4 wrote...

I have to deal with resource management as a healer in MMOs. I don't play a game like DA to worry about stupid things like resource management. I play games like this to get away from it, to have fun on my own. Because quite frankly, resource management is just not fun. Please keep it away from Mana, and if you must remove it, please remove Stamina regen for Warriors and Rogues. If I have to auto attack and lack access to my big flashy abilities, you guys better lack it too. :>

As for Health not regenerating, at least it's not Stamina/Mana. Yet.

Yeah...yet. I wouldn't be surprised if they messed with it, if people plan to just use it to heal etc. it kinda defeats no health regen, no?

[aphelion4]

Bekkael wrote...

aphelion4 wrote...

I have to deal with resource management as a healer in MMOs. I don't play a game like DA to worry about stupid things like resource management. I play games like this to get away from it, to have fun on my own. Because quite frankly, resource management is just not fun. Please keep it away from Mana, and if you must remove it, please remove Stamina regen for Warriors and Rogues. If I have to auto attack and lack access to my big flashy abilities, you guys better lack it too. :>

As for Health not regenerating, at least it's not Stamina/Mana. Yet.

Yeah...yet. I wouldn't be surprised if they messed with it, if people plan to just use it to heal etc. it kinda defeats no health regen, no?

Yuh. Which is why it worries me. I get that people have their epeen complexes and such but this is just tedium to the max if this ever happens.

[Bekkael]

LikesThingsHatesStuff wrote...

Bekkael wrote...

But who asked for no health regen? Who?! I don't remember seeing this in a list of faults of previous DA games. Did anyone ask for this, or is this something the devs decided would be fun and nostalgic for DAI?

They have repeatedly talked about Baldur's Gate so I assume they are going back to that. Baldur's Gate didn't have health regen and was more tactical. A lot of the initial audience for DA was the people who played BG and NWN. 

Annnnd those were PC games. Harkening back to PC only games when you have so many other platforms (the majority of which are consoles!) might not be the wisest direction. Things that are fun/expediant/make good games on PC don't necessarily translate well to consoles.

[cJohnOne]

LikesThingsHatesStuff wrote...

Bekkael wrote...

And don't cry your eyes out because if you don't agree with me I'm sure there will be a mod out before you know it to supply you with unlimited health potions. Hooray!

That is empty reassurance for console players, since we can't mod. >_<

I think the majority (not just BSN) of DA players are PC. However, I could be wrong but that's my conclusion.

For console players, all I can say is, deal. Fill you're party with mages and heal with all your might. 

That's really wrong.  The majority of players are on 360.  I don't remember the numbers but it's by a large margin.  Oh I forgot they don't count Steam and Origin sales so you won't be able to tell the sales in the future.

[Lee80]

Bekkael wrote...

I'm incredibly disappointed by their decision not to have health regen. The few games I've played with that mechanic didn't make me "think of the journey" or "be aware and careful of my resources". Not at all. All it added was pointless extra trips to inns/camp to "rest" for recovering health. What the heck is the point of that? It just adds an extra chore every few battles where you essentially have to stop your adventuring and take a forced break for health recovery. It's a time waster that adds nothing, and actually stops me from what I like, which is exploring areas and completing quests.

Dragon's Dogma had that for the first half of my game, and it just annoyed the crap out of me. <_< If people like this option, I don't know why they can't tie that mechanic to a higher difficulty. Let casual players regen health, and anything above casual can add in the extra busy work that no health regen is going to inevitably require.

It feels like nothing more than catering to those older PC RPG players where everything was painful and grindy. Ugh. No thanks!

Also, if they take away how much my healer mage can heal the health of my party, then they will have also effectively raped an entire mage specialization and that is NOT cool. Don't do it, BioWare!!!

I just wanted to say your post is very well written and I agree with it completely.

[Bekkael]

cJohnOne wrote...

LikesThingsHatesStuff wrote...

Bekkael wrote...

And don't cry your eyes out because if you don't agree with me I'm sure there will be a mod out before you know it to supply you with unlimited health potions. Hooray!

That is empty reassurance for console players, since we can't mod. >_<

I think the majority (not just BSN) of DA players are PC. However, I could be wrong but that's my conclusion.

For console players, all I can say is, deal. Fill you're party with mages and heal with all your might. 

That's really wrong.  The majority of players are on 360.  I don't remember the numbers but it's by a large margin.  Oh I forgot they don't count Steam and Origin sales so you won't be able to tell the sales in the future.

They don't count Steam and Origin sales? I wonder why not? I own DA:O and DA2 for my 360, and I have DA:O Ultimate on Steam for my kids that play PC.

EDIT: @Lee80alabama Thank you! (Also, I grew up in Andalusia, Alabama )

Modifié par Bekkael, 02 septembre 2013 - 03:49 .

[DarthLaxian]

aphelion4 wrote...

I have to deal with resource management as a healer in MMOs. I don't play a game like DA to worry about stupid things like resource management. I play games like this to get away from it, to have fun on my own. Because quite frankly, resource management is just not fun. Please keep it away from Mana, and if you must remove it, please remove Stamina regen for Warriors and Rogues. If I have to auto attack and lack access to my big flashy abilities, you guys better lack it too. :>

As for Health not regenerating, at least it's not Stamina/Mana. Yet.

exactly - i played a healer (as well as most other classes - mostly those that used mana) in an MMO, too (World of Warcraft) and i hated that management style stuff (because a slight misstake and you either could no longer heal (mana-pool empty!) or you left a member of your party (or even the tank - who i don't count as a normal party-member) die and got complaints (and forced that person to wait for a revive and to pay gold to repair the equipment damage for dying)...sorry, but that's not what i want in a single-player game (i play those for fun, not for the challenge and bragging rights!)

greetings LAX

[Cainhurst Crow]

Is health regen a legitimately good mechanic? Or just loved because of nostalgic value? That is the question.

[Bekkael]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Is health regen a legitimately good mechanic? Or just loved because of nostalgic value? That is the question.

I'm pretty sure that the answer to that would vary based on who you asked.

[Direwolf0294]

Bekkael wrote...

I'm incredibly disappointed by their decision not to have health regen. The few games I've played with that mechanic didn't make me "think of the journey" or "be aware and careful of my resources". Not at all. All it added was pointless extra trips to inns/camp to "rest" for recovering health. What the heck is the point of that? It just adds an extra chore every few battles where you essentially have to stop your adventuring and take a forced break for health recovery. It's a time waster that adds nothing, and actually stops me from what I like, which is exploring areas and completing quests.

These are pretty much my thoughts. Very, very few games I've played have managed to do a lack of health regen well, and it just doesn't work with open world games and RPGs. It's just added tedium that gets in the way of what those games should be about, which is adventuring.

[Bekkael]

Direwolf0294 wrote...

Bekkael wrote...

I'm incredibly disappointed by their decision not to have health regen. The few games I've played with that mechanic didn't make me "think of the journey" or "be aware and careful of my resources". Not at all. All it added was pointless extra trips to inns/camp to "rest" for recovering health. What the heck is the point of that? It just adds an extra chore every few battles where you essentially have to stop your adventuring and take a forced break for health recovery. It's a time waster that adds nothing, and actually stops me from what I like, which is exploring areas and completing quests.

These are pretty much my thoughts. Very, very few games I've played have managed to do a lack of health regen well, and it just doesn't work with open world games and RPGs. It's just added tedium that gets in the way of what those games should be about, which is adventuring.

Which I think is why Bethesda threw that stuff away, as they used to have it too in their older games. What's the most awesome thing about Skyrim? Exploration. After you gain some levels, exploration without the fear of dying lol. I really can't believe BioWare might be saying: "Here's this cool, awesome, enormous game world. Now, pick 3 out of 5 places to explore, because you don't have the resources to explore them all!" :unsure:

I sure hope that isn't what they're saying!

[The Hierophant]

Bekkael you had trouble with no free health regen in Dragon's Dogma? iirc there were an abundant amount of healing items like apples, grapes, greenwarish, potions and healing spring water that you can find in the environment. Plus the game allows you to earn so much money that the weight limit is the only thing that holds you back from carrying 99 of each non food healing item. (remedied with Sinew and, a pack mule)

I remember that the bulk of my trips to the inn is due to it being the only location to manage your stowed away gear or change your vocation, while it's easily accessible due to it being near a port crystal.

Mind you i didn't play Dark Arisen yet so this is based off of the vanilla game.

[Bekkael]

The Hierophant wrote...

Bekkael you had trouble with no free health regen in Dragon's Dogma? iirc there were an abundant amount of healing items like apples, grapes, greenwarish, potions and healing spring water that you can find in the environment. Plus the game allows you to earn so much money that the weight limit is the only thing that holds you back from carrying 99 of each non food healing item. (remedied with Sinew and, a pack mule)

I remember that the bulk of my trips to the inn is due to it being the only location to manage your stowed away gear or change your vocation, while it's easily accessible due to it being near a port crystal.

Mind you i didn't play Dark Arisen yet so this is based off of the vanilla game.

It was less an aggravation dealing with my health than managing the health of my pawns. My friend's pawns were all high or max level and almost always had  a form of health regen, so they were great. However, my goober pawn would only take a potion/eat food or herbs when he was at death's door. If I could have ordered him to eat/take a potion the way you can in DA games it wouldn't have bugged me as much. Inevitably, he would fall in battle and require me to rescue him. *sigh* Rinse and repeat as nauseum.

By the way, Dark Arisen is fantastic. If you liked vanilla DD, I think you will really like Bitterblack Isle and all the awesome dungeons there.

[The Hierophant]

Tbh i only gave my pawn equipment while i kept the healing items to myself. I'll wait for a price drop though as Capcom did me dirty with Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom, and Street Fighter vs Tekken.

[Archereon]

A way to accomplish this that would make a fair compromise would be to allow the party to rest in safe locations-cleared areas of a dungeon and whatnot-thereby regenerating health and mana, albeit with a small chance of random encounters to put a bit of a nick into both of the bars.

You know, the way it was done in most RPGs before regenerating health became the norm; I'm talking BG, Fallout NWN and so on.

Modifié par Archereon, 02 septembre 2013 - 05:17 .

[Bekkael]

The Hierophant wrote...

Tbh i only gave my pawn equipment while i kept the healing items to myself. I'll wait for a price drop though as Capcom did me dirty with Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom, and Street Fighter vs Tekken.

I heard they have naughty DLC practices, but they've only done me right with DD, so maybe they will turn over a new leaf? Anyway, the price will continue to drop over time, I'm sure.

[Gokuthegrate]

I thought they were saying that health wont instantly refill once combat is over.
.

[Maria Caliban]

If you want healing all the time, bring a mage with a healing spell.

You might also be able to craft potions in the field.

It's also likely that if you're down on potions, enemies will drop them.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 02 septembre 2013 - 05:33 .

[devSin]

Maria Caliban wrote...

If you want healing all the time, bring a mage with a healing spell.

If they're going so far as limiting potions in order to truly emphasize health as a meaningful concern, I seriously doubt mages will be endless fonts of healing either.

Modifié par devSin, 02 septembre 2013 - 05:34 .

[Bekkael]

Maria Caliban wrote...

If you want healing all the time, bring a mage with a healing spell.

You might also be able to craft potions in the field.

It's also likely that if you're down on potions, enemies will drop them.

I'll happily play as the mage with the healing spell. I'm just pessimistic and worried they will gimp mage's healing. Oh, I hope you're right about enemies dropping potions, that would be great.