slimgrin wrote...
Inquisitor Recon wrote...
Seriously, I went to this lesbian bar in the city and they refused to accept that I was a lesbian. Why can't a male be a lesbian? How hateful.slimgrin wrote...
I hate how real life locks me out of certian content. So annoying.
Clearly, they are closed minded bigots.
Modifié par sandalisthemaker, 02 septembre 2013 - 02:16 .
Hey, don't hate. This is a free country, and there's no reason dozens of consenting adults can't get together and have a big fight over whether the selection of video game characters their avatar can have sex with should put a greater emphasis on realism or inclusiveness.eluvianix wrote...
I have taken to drinking for every dumb one.WildOrchid wrote...
facepalming so hard at some comments.
I think slimgrin was being sarcastic?sandalisthemaker wrote...
slimgrin wrote...
Inquisitor Recon wrote...
Seriously, I went to this lesbian bar in the city and they refused to accept that I was a lesbian. Why can't a male be a lesbian? How hateful.slimgrin wrote...
I hate how real life locks me out of certian content. So annoying.
Clearly, they are closed minded bigots.
Pointless non-analogies are pointless.
LanceSolous13 wrote...
ShadyKat wrote...
9 companions
6 will probably be romance options
4 straight
1 bi
1 gay
Just my guess.
I just don't want to see that "Everyone is player sexual", in DA3. That felt like such a cop out in DA2.
Why one gay and one bi? Which, btw, that bi option will *technically* be a heterosexual romance depending on player gender.
No. If I want to be a gay character, I don't want to be told 'Either fall in love with this guy over here, or be forever alone'. : /
Its an issue I had in DA:O. I may LIKE Zevran's character, but not everyone else will. However, the heterosexual options are far more diverse (Brash and Sarcastic Morrigan vs. Loving and storytelling Lelianna) than the homosexual option, which there was one one per playthough.
I am perfectly all for that. Doesn't mean I can't point out ignorance and stupidity when I see it.bobobo878 wrote...
Hey, don't hate. This is a free country, and there's no reason dozens of consenting adults can't get together and have a big fight over whether the selection of video game characters their avatar can have sex with should put a greater emphasis on realism or inclusiveness.eluvianix wrote...
I have taken to drinking for every dumb one.WildOrchid wrote...
facepalming so hard at some comments.
bobobo878 wrote...
Hey, don't hate. This is a free country, and there's no reason dozens of consenting adults can't get together and have a big fight over whether the selection of video game characters their avatar can have sex with should put a greater emphasis on realism or inclusiveness.eluvianix wrote...
I have taken to drinking for every dumb one.WildOrchid wrote...
facepalming so hard at some comments.
Inquisitor Recon wrote...
So you didn't like the romance options avalible to you. A straight female or a straight male could simiarily not like the romance options presented to them. Does this mean the game is unfair to them? No. That's just the way life is. It is simply impossible to give everybody their ideal waifu.
You say that as if me driving you to drink was a bad thing. Drink, be merry and fantasize about punishing me for my hateful ways.eluvianix wrote...
Can I hit him please? He has driven me to drinking.
Inquisitor Recon wrote...
daveliam wrote...
You dodged this question. I play on a console so I can't mod. I wanted to have a gay male romance in DA: O. You speak of options and how DA: O was done correctly and very fair. There were two straight male romances (Leliana and Morrigan). I had one option (Zevran). Where is the equity? I don't like Zevran and wanted another option. Not "as many options as necessary until I found one I like". Not "as many options as straight romances". I wanted AN option. That's all. Why is it so hard to understand?
My post never said ANYTHING about limiting anyone else's options, so there can many straight NPCs. I am just asking for a choice in the romance content for gay males in the game. That's all.
Now, explain to me again why you think DA: O was fair. Please.
So you didn't like the romance options avalible to you. A straight female or a straight male could simiarily not like the romance options presented to them. Does this mean the game is unfair to them? No. That's just the way life is. It is simply impossible to give everybody their ideal waifu.
Modifié par EJ107, 02 septembre 2013 - 02:21 .
That's fine, just don't give yourself alcohol poisoning in the process.eluvianix wrote...
I am perfectly all for that. Doesn't mean I can't point out ignorance and stupidity when I see it.bobobo878 wrote...
Hey, don't hate. This is a free country, and there's no reason dozens of consenting adults can't get together and have a big fight over whether the selection of video game characters their avatar can have sex with should put a greater emphasis on realism or inclusiveness.eluvianix wrote...
I have taken to drinking for every dumb one.WildOrchid wrote...
facepalming so hard at some comments.
My bigger concern is that which I worry about in all Bioware (and most other game writing) games: is this putting in a character because the writers wanted a diverse cast, or does the character actually tie in to the feel and themes of the game. Note I didn't say 'plot' - it's easy to add trivial plot points that bring in extraneous characters, there are plenty of characters in all media that are vital to the work despite having little direct connection to the plot. Themes and feel mean a lot more - and are woefully underthought in most game writing.
That doesn't mean the character's transexuality has to have thematic relevance - that can be part of the characterisation that lifts it from a 'bottle of themes' to an actual character (though given the obliviousness of even Bioware's most prominent female writers to the fact that she isn't just writing - but PROMOTING DA2 ON THE BASIS OF - the ****/mother/virgin characterisation uber-cliche, I am skeptical that Bioware can actually deliver on characterisation beyond dating-sim wish-fulfillment. But actually irks me with Bioware's attempts at diversity and sex isn't the diversity itself. That's a good thing, all things considered. But there's never any sign in Bioware games that anyone has sat back and thought 'how does this character contribute to the game's themes and feel?' 'Could we tell this same story, with the same themes without this character?' 'Are we trivialising the aim of diversity by inserting theses characters as unnecessary padding.'
Even in a sprawling game like FO1 and Deus Ex, there are very few (if any) characters without thematic significance (same with VtMB) - noit all are info dums of philosoraptory (very few are), but they all build the world, feel and themes in SOME way. None of them are merely padding - characters with no other purpose than to be characters in the game.
The same reasoning applies to what character actions you focus on. You don't focus on the characters brushing their teeth before going to bed, do you? Even though you could probably insert some teeth-brushing related plot. You don't do it because it is utterly unrelated to the games' themes and feel as a whole. 9 times out of 10, when a game introduces sex or romance, the same problem arises. That's why they're exploitational dating sims, not interesting character interaction.
As a guy who was actively bi prior to marriage, I have no problem with including gay, bi or transgender characters. But in Bioware's case, crying 'trans/homophobia' is deliberately disiningenius. The problem is that times and time again, Bioware has inserted characters purely for the sake of diversity, with no thought as to how those characters will fit the theme and feel of their games. The characters become padding - unnecessary and irritating padding, serving only as wish fulfilment for the kind of people who couldn't pick up even a good pulp book, let alone literature - and that's not an educational snobbishness: there's no shortage of easy to read/watch literature.
That trivialises the very diversity Bioware wants to be lauded for. What worse way of using diverse characters than turning them into sex-fetish freakshows that could have been dropped without losing anything of substance. Can you imagine Silent Hill 2 without the guy's wife? Can you imagine KoTOR2 working (on the restoration mod version) without Bao-dur as a foil to the Exile as they are both being brought full circle, to the point where Bao-dur eventually reaches a grim determination that actually what they did the first time WAS necessary, as he rebuilds the device that devastated the planet the first time around (leaving the Exile to fact e the same choice)? As an example of a minor NPC, can you imagine PS:T without Ingriss, the impoverished hive dwellers, the diseased members of the lower ward and the sensates as slaves to their desires...building a theme and setting where everyone - EVERYONE - is trapped in one way or another; just like the TNO when it starts to dawn that he can't just escape out and start again. That like Hamlet (and there's a lot of Hamlet in the TNO's arc), all he can do is move beyond the naivity of thinking that he can achieve some higher justicet - that like when Hamlet responds to Horatio pointing out the obvious (that it's a trap, from which Hamlet will have no chance of escaping), he finally realises that what really matters now isn't being the romantic hero - it's the long-overdue step of finally doing what needs to be done.
There's no reason why this couldn't be done with diverse sexualities. But Bioware has never shown any interest in doing so.
eluvianix wrote...
I think slimgrin was being sarcastic?sandalisthemaker wrote...
slimgrin wrote...
Inquisitor Recon wrote...
Seriously, I went to this lesbian bar in the city and they refused to accept that I was a lesbian. Why can't a male be a lesbian? How hateful.slimgrin wrote...
I hate how real life locks me out of certian content. So annoying.
Clearly, they are closed minded bigots.
Pointless non-analogies are pointless.
It would be a good thing if you had actually contributed anything constructive instead of being closedminded and inconsiderate towards anyone who is not a straight male.Inquisitor Recon wrote...
You say that as if me driving you to drink was a bad thing. Drink, be merry and fantasize about punishing me for my hateful ways.eluvianix wrote...
Can I hit him please? He has driven me to drinking.
Well yes, you aren't required to even have a romance. And there are brothels which cater to everybody, even those with a passion for nugs, who I will not judge.daveliam wrote...
You AGAIN did not address my question. Where is the equity in the options? I want AN option. I would like to have a choice. Did I have a choice in LI's in DA: O as a gay male? That is my question to you.
Modifié par Inquisitor Recon, 02 septembre 2013 - 02:27 .
AW HELL TO THE NO, THEM OTHER HOES GOT DIFFERENT TYPES OF BREAD WHAT ABOUT ME?EJ107 wrote...
Inquisitor Recon wrote...
daveliam wrote...
You dodged this question. I play on a console so I can't mod. I wanted to have a gay male romance in DA: O. You speak of options and how DA: O was done correctly and very fair. There were two straight male romances (Leliana and Morrigan). I had one option (Zevran). Where is the equity? I don't like Zevran and wanted another option. Not "as many options as necessary until I found one I like". Not "as many options as straight romances". I wanted AN option. That's all. Why is it so hard to understand?
My post never said ANYTHING about limiting anyone else's options, so there can many straight NPCs. I am just asking for a choice in the romance content for gay males in the game. That's all.
Now, explain to me again why you think DA: O was fair. Please.
So you didn't like the romance options avalible to you. A straight female or a straight male could simiarily not like the romance options presented to them. Does this mean the game is unfair to them? No. That's just the way life is. It is simply impossible to give everybody their ideal waifu.
So you didn't like the piece of bread we offered you. The people we are giving the buffet to could similarly not like any of the dishes presented to them. Does this mean the banquet is unfair to them? No. That's just the way life is. It is simply impossible to give eveybody their ideal meal.
bobobo878 wrote...
Hey, don't hate. This is a free country, and there's no reason dozens of consenting adults can't get together and have a big fight over whether the selection of video game characters their avatar can have sex with should put a greater emphasis on realism or inclusiveness.
Modifié par Lenimph, 02 septembre 2013 - 02:23 .
My boyfriend cut me off already. <_<bobobo878 wrote...
That's fine, just don't give yourself alcohol poisoning in the process.eluvianix wrote...
I am perfectly all for that. Doesn't mean I can't point out ignorance and stupidity when I see it.bobobo878 wrote...
Hey, don't hate. This is a free country, and there's no reason dozens of consenting adults can't get together and have a big fight over whether the selection of video game characters their avatar can have sex with should put a greater emphasis on realism or inclusiveness.eluvianix wrote...
I have taken to drinking for every dumb one.WildOrchid wrote...
facepalming so hard at some comments.
Guest_greengoron89_*
CrustyBot wrote...
*snip*
I'm in!!Lenimph wrote...
bobobo878 wrote...
Hey, don't hate. This is a free country, and there's no reason dozens of consenting adults can't get together and have a big fight over whether the selection of video game characters their avatar can have sex with should put a greater emphasis on realism or inclusiveness.
I personally think realism should be thrown out of the window in favor of gay magical sex with the literal use of magic.
Like I just want one big bisexual mage orgy in that new area that looks like a North American desert. A Thedas Burning Man if you will.
Guest_Morocco Mole_*
Inquisitor Recon wrote...
Well yes, you aren't required to even have a romance. And there are brothers which cater to everybody, even those with a passion for nugs, who I will not judge.daveliam wrote...
You AGAIN did not address my question. Where is the equity in the options? I want AN option. I would like to have a choice. Did I have a choice in LI's in DA: O as a gay male? That is my question to you.
I'm offended by this notion. I am inconsiderate towards everybody equally. And I have considered your augment, it just doesn't seem realistic or to make sense to me. It's individuals trying to dress up the wants of some as "justice" or "fairness" or "inclusiveness".eluvianix wrote...
It would be a good thing if you had actually contributed anything constructive instead of being closedminded and inconsiderate towards anyone who is not a straight male.
Morocco Mole wrote...
As a fellow gay person I think the herosexuality thing is the dumbest and most offensive pandering you can do.
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