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[In Exile]

Silfren wrote...
LOL...my only point was that I never found Drizzt being so fundamentally different from his people all that plausible.  I like the character and the concept, but I'm supposed to believe that out of the entire rae of Drow, there's exactly one who was in some inexplicable way different?

Didn't he meet like an awesome godness of mega love or something? 

I wonder how the race issue will be handled, because I thought the Human-Only origin made sense from a lore perspective, but I'm not unhappy to see race options back, mind.  I DO wonder how in the world a Dalish will fit.  If we do end up with that option, it's the elf background I'll play first, as I like the Dalish concept, but I still think it doesn't make sense.  It's too bad there's an entire year to wait before we get to see the context. 

I thought the different origins made sense, I just think certain places should have reacted more forcefully. There's no reason why Orzammar should be racist for example. 

[Zu Long]

I'd be fine with a Dalish Elf, though I would like to play a Circle Elf if possible.

[Xilizhra]

I'm also concerned with the truth. Given what we saw of places like Sundermount and the Brecilian Forest, as well as Zathrian, my own theory is that the Arlathan elves were powerful blood mages. Their immortaility related to their ability to use blood magic in a way that was far beyond humans even today. It fits with the idea of elves being more attuned to magic than humans, and to the idea that Arlathan was a magical empire.

If so, I'll take and use that. And then begin to rebuild Arlathan.

[Eveangaline]

Zu Long wrote...

I'd be fine with a Dalish Elf, though I would like to play a Circle Elf if possible.

Only the elf mage has to be dalish, I believe.

[In Exile]

Xilizhra wrote...
If so, I'll take and use that. And then begin to rebuild Arlathan.

That's a step of my plan for elven independence. Blood magic, properly harnessed. It was how Tevinter built an Empire. Even if we take seriously the idea that it somehow corrups people - morally - if they use it, it's still worth it because of what not having a country has meant for the elves in terms of pain and suffering. 

With the chaos in Orlais, leveraging Gaspard and Celene against each other and whittling down their forces also seems like a good plan in the short run. 

[dragondreamer]

In Exile wrote...

dragondreamer wrote...

What I've gotten from a lot of this conversation is that the Dalish are terrible because they hurt feelings by calling people "shems", but humans are okay folks even though they subjugate elves.  

Where did you get that from? No one said anything like that. In fact, I specifically said the opposite on a number of occasions. 

My point is that it doesn't make sense to single out the Dalish this way.  Even the City Elves look down on the Dalish as a bunch of backwards barbarians and bandits, not unlike humans do.  The Dwarves have huge issues with their caste system, and do I even have to mention the Qunari?  

That said, I also hope there will be an option for Circle elf mages.

[Shadow Fox]

dragondreamer wrote...

In Exile wrote...

dragondreamer wrote...

What I've gotten from a lot of this conversation is that the Dalish are terrible because they hurt feelings by calling people "shems", but humans are okay folks even though they subjugate elves.  

Where did you get that from? No one said anything like that. In fact, I specifically said the opposite on a number of occasions. 

My point is that it doesn't make sense to single out the Dalish this way.  Even the City Elves look down on the Dalish as a bunch of backwards barbarians and bandits, not unlike humans do.  The Dwarves have huge issues with their caste system, and do I even have to mention the Qunari?  

That said, I also hope there will be an option for Circle elf mages.

Apostate Elf mage FTW!

[Ryzaki]

Eveangaline wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

I'd be fine with a Dalish Elf, though I would like to play a Circle Elf if possible.

Only the elf mage has to be dalish, I believe.

Really? Bleh.

Guess it's rogues for me then.

[In Exile]

dragondreamer wrote...
My point is that it doesn't make sense to single out the Dalish this way.  Even the City Elves look down on the Dalish as a bunch of backwards barbarians and bandits, not unlike humans do.  The Dwarves have huge issues with their caste system, and do I even have to mention the Qunari?  

Well, I did mention the qunari. Specifically on the same point. I'm not singling the Dalish out. I just heard that the option for the elven mage is Dalish, and I hope we're not restricted to being Dalish if we wanted to be an elf. I wouldn't want to be restricted to a dwarven noble either, anymore than I would want to be a (religious) qunari or an Andrastian human. 

Modifié par In Exile, 13 septembre 2013 - 03:44 .

[dragondreamer]

The only thing we heard from PAX is that we can play a Dalish mage, not that the elf mage is Dalish. I think the difference in the statement there shouldn't be overlooked...

[dragondreamer]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

dragondreamer wrote...

In Exile wrote...

dragondreamer wrote...

What I've gotten from a lot of this conversation is that the Dalish are terrible because they hurt feelings by calling people "shems", but humans are okay folks even though they subjugate elves.  

Where did you get that from? No one said anything like that. In fact, I specifically said the opposite on a number of occasions. 

My point is that it doesn't make sense to single out the Dalish this way.  Even the City Elves look down on the Dalish as a bunch of backwards barbarians and bandits, not unlike humans do.  The Dwarves have huge issues with their caste system, and do I even have to mention the Qunari?  

That said, I also hope there will be an option for Circle elf mages.

Apostate Elf mage FTW!

Well, at this point I think Circle mages are all automatically apostates. 

[In Exile]

dragondreamer wrote...

The only thing we heard from PAX is that we can play a Dalish mage, not that the elf mage is Dalish. I think the difference in the statement there shouldn't be overlooked...

You're right, and I didn't mean it that way. Post amended. 

[LobselVith8]

Silfren wrote...

LOL...my only point was that I never found Drizzt being so fundamentally different from his people all that plausible.  I like the character and the concept, but I'm supposed to believe that out of the entire rae of Drow, there's exactly one who was in some inexplicable way different?

Now I have an idea of who Drizzt was...

That said, I wonder how a Dalish elf can react to human society (without being beholden to the tenants of the Wardens or anything like that). Orlais and Tevinter should invoke some interesting responses.

I also wonder if the Dalish protagonist can express opinion on Merrill's exploits in Kirkwall and Zathrian / Lanaya's clan fighting the darkspawn (and possibly getting their own homeland).

Silfren wrote...

I wonder how the race issue will be handled, because I thought the Human-Only origin made sense from a lore perspective, but I'm not unhappy to see race options back, mind.  I DO wonder how in the world a Dalish will fit.  If we do end up with that option, it's the elf background I'll play first, as I like the Dalish concept, but I still think it doesn't make sense.  It's too bad there's an entire year to wait before we get to see the context. 

I think a Dalish elf would be motivated into stopping the Veil tears to protect the People and save Thedas, but creating a new Inquisition does puzzle me (and it did previously when we were told the Inquisitor could only be human). I wonder why the Inquisition, specifically, is being reformed by a person from a potential multitude of backgrounds. Given the negative view some historical accounts provide about the Inquisition, I remain curious about it.

[Silfren]

In Exile wrote...

Silfren wrote...
LOL...my only point was that I never found Drizzt being so fundamentally different from his people all that plausible.  I like the character and the concept, but I'm supposed to believe that out of the entire rae of Drow, there's exactly one who was in some inexplicable way different?

Didn't he meet like an awesome godness of mega love or something?

He did, but as I understand it, he connected with that Goddess, Mielikki, because he was already a noble, compassionate soul.

(Must confess, I've read quite a few of the Drizzt books, but as much as I like the concept, I DON'T like Salvatore's writing.  It's an unfortunate case of a great idea VERY BADLY executed, in my view).

I thought the different origins made sense, I just think certain places should have reacted more forcefully. There's no reason why Orzammar should be racist for example. 

On the contrary, I think Orzammar's racism makes great sense, when you consider how rigid they are when it comes to traditions and how suspicious they are of anything unrelated to the Stone.  

Modifié par Silfren, 13 septembre 2013 - 07:21 .

[Silfren]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Silfren wrote...

LOL...my only point was that I never found Drizzt being so fundamentally different from his people all that plausible.  I like the character and the concept, but I'm supposed to believe that out of the entire rae of Drow, there's exactly one who was in some inexplicable way different?

Now I have an idea of who Drizzt was...

That said, I wonder how a Dalish elf can react to human society (without being beholden to the tenants of the Wardens or anything like that). Orlais and Tevinter should invoke some interesting responses.

I also wonder if the Dalish protagonist can express opinion on Merrill's exploits in Kirkwall and Zathrian / Lanaya's clan fighting the darkspawn (and possibly getting their own homeland).

Silfren wrote...

I wonder how the race issue will be handled, because I thought the Human-Only origin made sense from a lore perspective, but I'm not unhappy to see race options back, mind.  I DO wonder how in the world a Dalish will fit.  If we do end up with that option, it's the elf background I'll play first, as I like the Dalish concept, but I still think it doesn't make sense.  It's too bad there's an entire year to wait before we get to see the context. 

I think a Dalish elf would be motivated into stopping the Veil tears to protect the People and save Thedas, but creating a new Inquisition does puzzle me (and it did previously when we were told the Inquisitor could only be human). I wonder why the Inquisition, specifically, is being reformed by a person from a potential multitude of backgrounds. Given the negative view some historical accounts provide about the Inquisition, I remain curious about it.

I hope that in terms of developing our character, we have varying options on a Dalish character's motivation.  I wouldn't object to a Dalish being noble-minded and wanting to save everybody, of course, but I absolutely want the option for my character to make it clear they are working for the People's interest and no-one else.  It's true that many of the Dalish are prejudiced toward Humans ( I say prejudiced, and not racist, for a reason), but there's a mountain of very real justification for that.  It's not irrational hatred for humans simply for being different, it's suspicion and distrust based on centuries of oppression.  So yes, I definitely want the option to play a Dalish who can essentially tell the people around her, "Don't flatter yourselves, I'm not doing this for anyone but my own people."

[In Exile]

Silfren wrote...
On the contrary, I think Orzammar's racism makes great sense, when you consider how rigid they are when it comes to traditions and how suspicious they are of anything unrelated to the Stone.  

That's a very good point. I hadn't thought of it that way.

 So yes, I definitely want the option to play a Dalish who can essentially tell the people around her, "Don't flatter yourselves, I'm not doing this for anyone but my own people."

I hope that view isn't restricted to the Dalish. I don't like their underlying racist dogma, but I am entirely for the ability for each race to act in keeping with their prejudice. I just think there's a big difference between cultural prejudice that has a strong underlying racist (e.g. Andrastianism or Dalish...ism?) and a prejudiced individual.