526 réponses à ce sujet

[Vicious]

How bout that 'skip the combat' button.

[ImperatorMortis]

 Wouldn't a toggle kind of ruin the game balance? I dunno I guess they could have it for very easy mode or something? 

Vicious wrote...

How bout that 'skip the combat' button.

*shudders* 

Modifié par ImperatorMortis, 04 septembre 2013 - 04:41 .

[ImperatorMortis]

Maverick827 wrote...

Volourn wrote...

Why would you do that? WHY!?!

Because the game requires me to.

What? No.

Haven't you heard of Potions, and Healing Magic? 

Modifié par ImperatorMortis, 04 septembre 2013 - 04:43 .

[Trafalgar-Law]

cJohnOne wrote...

But in the video they only needed 1 health potion. It's an assumption that the damage you take will out strip your resources and that this can't be balanced. If this is the case there isn't any tedium to speak of..

That's all well and good, but that's just one battle. I'm not maknig an assumption. I'm basing my analysis on what we've already seen in the previous DA games. Going by all of the battles in the previous games, unless they've severely nerfed the enemies (which defeats the whole purpose of taking away health regen), we're still going to be dealing with foes who can randomly one shot your party members or otherwise deal massive amounts of damage. We'll also be running into traps and otherwise unpredictable circumstances.

Modifié par Trafalgar-Law, 04 septembre 2013 - 05:03 .

[Trafalgar-Law]

Vicious wrote...

How bout that 'skip the combat' button.

Or even better, lets just get rid of the HUD completely or have the screen go blank if your health goes below 50%. Or my favorite, automatically randomize the control scheme every 2 minutes of combat! That'll certainly force players to play smarter!

Modifié par Trafalgar-Law, 04 septembre 2013 - 05:10 .

[Gileadan]

Naah, let's do the opposite instead. Remove hit point bars entirely and just make the screen go red for two seconds if you get hit.
Bloody screen! So real!

[Taura-Tierno]

Trafalgar-Law wrote...

cJohnOne wrote...

But in the video they only needed 1 health potion. It's an assumption that the damage you take will out strip your resources and that this can't be balanced. If this is the case there isn't any tedium to speak of..

That's all well and good, but that's just one battle. I'm not maknig an assumption. I'm basing my analysis on what we've already seen in the previous DA games. Going by all of the battles in the previous games, unless they've severely nerfed the enemies (which defeats the whole purpose of taking away health regen), we're still going to be dealing with foes who can randomly one shot your party members or otherwise deal massive amounts of damage. We'll also be running into traps and otherwise unpredictable circumstances.

Why do people assume that they'd change one important balancing aspect of combat and leave the rest unaltered? I highly doubt that they're going to make so people will have to spend HOURS backtracking tedious routes just to heal up because they cannot progress otherwise. You _are_ making an assumption; you are assuming that battles and health will work like in previous games, that did feature health regen. 

You won't be able to stock a 1000 health potions - but perhaps you will find one here, one there, and such. Perhaps you'll use that to heal your tank, and then you work to make sure your tank takes the damage, and not your squishy mage. Perhaps instead of just rushing into combat, you'll have to plan a strategy. Or perhaps they will make it so that "backtracking" to camp isn't "backtracking" at all, but make it a part of exploration, and thus, make it more fun. 

I think they are going to find a way to balance it well. As they have in other, older games. Baldur's Gate 2. KotoR. Both games worked fine without automatic health regen. 

People should stop assuming it's going to be horrendous and ruin the experience. 

Modifié par Taura-Tierno, 04 septembre 2013 - 06:36 .

[Renmiri1]

Maker have mercy, DAO speed combat ? ! ?!!!!

Why do you torture me so Bioware ?

For the story and romances I'll put up with anything even having to walk around with both my shoelaces tied to each other while trying to carry a glass of water without spilling - which is what DAO combat feels like.

Please devs, do add twitchy combat or make a "bunny slopes" difficulty level where i just have to sneeze to kill all enemies in the area. DAO combat is too cruel!

[Tashash]

I get the feeling that I'm going to have to do multiple playthoughs to satisfy my need to see/do/ everything.

As long as I enjoy the game I see no issue with this.

My first game is going to be a b**** where I die every two minutes though. Meh.

Also, I remember the mention that health won't regen from the PAX vid's, but did they mean health will NEVER regen, or just not in combat?

Also, I heard mention of injuries - will it be like Origins, where a sustained injury will eat up some of the health bar until you go back to camp or slap an injury kit on it? Will there BE injury kits?

Or could the injury continuously bleed your health to nothing?

Questions, question. They say it was questions that drove me mad.

[AlexJK]

[quote]Tashash wrote...

Also, I remember the mention that health won't regen from the PAX vid's, but did they mean health will NEVER regen, or just not in combat?[/quote]
Sounds like never, except that there will be some kind of health boost at the end of each encounter, the amount of which will be determined by difficulty level.[/quote]

[Tashash]

[quote]AlexJK wrote...

[quote]Tashash wrote...

Also, I remember the mention that health won't regen from the PAX vid's, but did they mean health will NEVER regen, or just not in combat?[/quote]
Sounds like never, except that there will be some kind of health boost at the end of each encounter, the amount of which will be determined by difficulty level.[/quote][/quote]

Ooooh! That seems neat!

Thank you for the clarification.

[Kharaide]

after i finish the game, i do a 2nd play through to do all the things is missed, which means i would love a toggle ;p

[Ailith Tycane]

If this doesn't become an actual thing, then I fully intend to exploit the crap out of the console commands on PC.

I understand what their logic was with this decision, I just don't really like it.

[ENTER THE VOID]

you read my mind holy ****, i NEED TO SLAY EVERYTHING,

when they said on the game informer videos that they need to be ok with knowing that players will miss some content completely i died a little inside

I NEED IT ALL

[jwalker]

Taura-Tierno wrote...



You won't be able to stock a 1000 health potions - but perhaps you will find one here, one there, and such. Perhaps you'll use that to heal your tank, and then you work to make sure your tank takes the damage, and not your squishy mage. Perhaps instead of just rushing into combat, you'll have to plan a strategy. Or perhaps they will make it so that "backtracking" to camp isn't "backtracking" at all, but make it a part of exploration, and thus, make it more fun. 

So your base camp is point A. You go to point B, then C. Damn, your health is 30%, so you play it safe go back to heal yourself. Which way ? Exactly through where you came from, you go back to B, then A, because that way is the path you know is clear. By trying to find a different way (assuming there will be more than one), you risk triggering another fight, defeating the purpose of healing yourself. Backtracking is exaclty what you'll have to do. That's not fun.

Modifié par jwalker, 04 septembre 2013 - 12:14 .

[Taura-Tierno]

Perhaps instead of trying to find every single negative aspect with the idea of no automatic regeneration after combat and just assuming that's how it's going to be, people should try to think about how it could be made to work? I gave a few suggestions.

Perhaps things will happen when you do backtrack. Given the large, open terrains, it hardly seems impossible that things will happen in areas you return to. Enemies that appear, etc.

Which, of course, would mean that you'd have to PLAN your explorations. Perhaps going exploring a new part of an area when your low on any kind of healing (e.g. potions) isn't a great idea. Perhaps fighting your way through a very difficult encounter just for the sake of exploration turns out not to be a great idea, and you'd have to go back later, when you're at a higher level. Perhaps you aren't really intended to be able to explore anything, anytime. You have the option, but you'd have to be either very skilled or have a lot of luck.

Perhaps there will be some sort of fast travel system that will be available in some (but likely not all) areas? Or perhaps there are enough places to set up camp that you won't really suffer.

For me, it's immersion. I _prefer_ to not have automatic health regen. Like, say, KotoR. Even though healing there wasn't that difficult, there were parts where you were out of medpacs (if you didn't buy enough) and then you might have to choose between using the Force a lot to heal, but having to hang around for a while to let it regenerate, or rushing into the next combat while out of Force Points. Or like in Baldur's Gate 2, where resting could lead to you being attacked. That adds another level of immersion, that I really like.

As long as it doesn't turn into Dark Souls, which I highly doubt.

[Fast Jimmy]

jwalker wrote...

Taura-Tierno wrote...



You won't be able to stock a 1000 health potions - but perhaps you will find one here, one there, and such. Perhaps you'll use that to heal your tank, and then you work to make sure your tank takes the damage, and not your squishy mage. Perhaps instead of just rushing into combat, you'll have to plan a strategy. Or perhaps they will make it so that "backtracking" to camp isn't "backtracking" at all, but make it a part of exploration, and thus, make it more fun. 

So your base camp is point A. You go to point B, then C. Damn, your health is 30%, so you play it safe go back to heal yourself. Which way ? Exactly through where you came from, you go back to B, then A, because that way is the path you know is clear. By trying to find a different way (assuming there will be more than one), you risk triggering another fight, defeating the purpose of healing yourself. Backtracking is exaclty what you'll have to do. That's not fun.

Unless, of course, enemies randomly roam, so you never know if going back the same exact way you came from will still be safe or not. Then backtracking would be fun! 

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 04 septembre 2013 - 12:43 .

[Eveangaline]

I'm sure they'll give us the way to get by without a toggle.

[wolfhowwl]

Eveangaline wrote...

I'm sure they'll give us the way to get by without a toggle.

turning the difficulty down to easy/casual?

[The Elder King]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Maker have mercy, DAO speed combat ? ! ?!!!!

Why do you torture me so Bioware ?

For the story and romances I'll put up with anything even having to walk around with both my shoelaces tied to each other while trying to carry a glass of water without spilling - which is what DAO combat feels like.

Please devs, do add twitchy combat or make a "bunny slopes" difficulty level where i just have to sneeze to kill all enemies in the area. DAO combat is too cruel!

Where did you see DAO speed combat. The demo was neither on DAO or DA2's speed. It was between the two.

[Trafalgar-Law]

Taura-Tierno wrote...

Trafalgar-Law wrote...

cJohnOne wrote...

But in the video they only needed 1 health potion. It's an assumption that the damage you take will out strip your resources and that this can't be balanced. If this is the case there isn't any tedium to speak of..

That's all well and good, but that's just one battle. I'm not maknig an assumption. I'm basing my analysis on what we've already seen in the previous DA games. Going by all of the battles in the previous games, unless they've severely nerfed the enemies (which defeats the whole purpose of taking away health regen), we're still going to be dealing with foes who can randomly one shot your party members or otherwise deal massive amounts of damage. We'll also be running into traps and otherwise unpredictable circumstances.

Why do people assume that they'd change one important balancing aspect of combat and leave the rest unaltered?

Because that's what Bioware tends to do? Why do people analyze the game in a vacuum as oppossed to taking the developers previous work into consideration?

I highly doubt that they're going to make so people will have to spend HOURS backtracking tedious routes just to heal up because they cannot progress otherwise.

As I've already suggested, they've really only got three options here. They can (1) nerf the enemies to the extent where backtracking to your fort is not necessary. Problem is that this defeats the purpose of taking away health regen since players aren't going be that challenged. They can (2) keep the enemies tough, thus force tedious backtracking. As I've discussed (and as you seem to agree), this is BAD idea. Or they can (3) create safezones near battle, thus take away backtracking while simaltaneously keeping the enemies challenging. Problem with this is that it also defeats the point of removing health regen since players don't have to worry much about conserving their health since they only have to deal with the inconvenience of traversing back to the safe zone.

Frankly, the system wasn't broken in the first place. I think the "injuries" feature already addresses their concerns. Limiting the amount of health potions you have is also a good idea in terms of conservation. If you're out of health potions, you have to win battles without them. This system doesn't involve nerfing or pointless backtracking. Hopefully BW wises up before the game is released.

[Ecmoose]

Trafalgar-Law wrote...


I've read your posts throughout this thread and have to massively disagree with you. Your position is essentially that there should be no health regen toggle because not having one would force players to think strategically-----to "manages resources" and whatnot. That this would force players to play smarter.  Your suggestions simply result in making the game boring.

Except you didn't because I eventually came around to being okay with a toggle on lower difficulties.

Yes you might think that the suggestions I used (which were less suggestions and more observations from games who succesfully implemented static health) would make the game boring, but thats the beauty of opinion.

While I might subject myself to the tedium of running back to base while I learn the basics, I personally enjoy learning combat mechanics (though admitedly I'm not always good at them) and feel much more accomplishment when I've finally overcome and obstacle then if I'd just gone through the game without any significant roadblocks to begin with, but again, that's just how I like to play.

We still have no idea:
1)what the potion limit is

2)what the health pools will look like,

3)What the average damage from anencounter will be,

4)What the post battle health recovery threshold is,

5)how much health potions will heal (from the demo it looked like ALL but we don't know how potent the potion was) and lastly

6)they said that recovery will only happen at bases AND Camps, but we don't know what the camp mechanic is.

All of that means we can not reasonably assume one way or the other how this no health regen will work and I'm choosing to be optimistic instead of raising the banners and marching off to war from some prealpha footage. 

Modifié par Ecmoose, 04 septembre 2013 - 05:33 .

[Trafalgar-Law]

Ecmoose wrote...

Except you didn't because I eventually came around to being okay with a toggle on lower difficulties.

Dude, spare me the equivocation. You've made it clear that a removal of health regen makes the game better since it forces players to play smarter. You have not conceded the error in this position. The fact that you believe a toggle is okay only on lower difficulties is immaterial to the criticisms I've put forward.

Yes you might think that the suggestions I used (which were less suggestions and more observations from games who succesfully implemented static health) would make the game boring, but thats the beauty of opinion.

Perhaps, but there's a fine line between argument and opinion. You haven't simply told us that your "observations" would make the game more fun. You've supplied us with an argument detailing how they would make the game more fun. I've responded with a counter-argument, detailing that your 'observations' would make the game boring.

While I might subject myself to the tedium of running back to base while I learn the basics, I personally enjoy learning combat mechanics (though admitedly I'm not always good at them) and feel much more accomplishment when I've finally overcome and obstacle then if I'd just gone through the game without any significant roadblocks to begin with, but again, that's just how I like to play.

Except there's a much better way for you to enjoy learning combat mechanics while accomplishing a large obstacle without subjecting yourself to inane tedium of running back and forth. As I've pointed out in my previous post, this can be accomplished simply through making the enemies tougher. Moreover, as I've suggested in a recent post, they can also expand on the injury system that they already have in place (which was designed to address this very issue). Perhaps limit the amount of injury kits you can carry.

We still have no idea:
1)what the potion limit is

2)what the health pools will look like,

3)What the average damage from anencounter will be,

4)What the post battle health recovery threshold is,

5)how much health potions will heal (from the demo it looked like ALL but we don't know how potent the potion was) and lastly

We don't have any of this information and I'll gladly amend my position when we do. For the time being however, just the basic concept alone strikes me as a bad idea.

Modifié par Trafalgar-Law, 04 septembre 2013 - 06:29 .

[mupp3tz]

^ But from your options you only list the possibility that all enemies are nerfed or enemies are too tough, when they have been saying that there are different levels of enemies scattered about and it's up to your discretion to engage in combat. And if you somehow find yourself being overwhelmed, you can always retreat and recoup.

We have no information on what this new base camp feature is, so it's a stretch to say that it nulls how regen will work. It just means you don't have to backtrack as far which, coupled with the regen threshold, buying/finding/crafting(?) potions, having a healer, means less back and forth overall. 

Modifié par M U P P 3 T Z, 04 septembre 2013 - 06:41 .