526 réponses à ce sujet

[Ecmoose]

Trafalgar-Law wrote...

You have not conceded the error in this position. 

And I won't because I don't think my opinion is an error. 

Can't we just agree to disagree? I think this system will make the game better, you think it will make it worse.
I'm not going to stop arguing what I believe to be the merits of the system as I see it, but neither am I offended by your opinion to the contrary. 

I think your injury kit idea is a good one, but that doesn't make me like static health any less. 

I've laid out my reasons for why I like it, and I'll counter argue anyone who counter argues me, but I'm not telling anyone that they're opinion is wrong. I just think it's way too early to this worried by it. 

Modifié par Ecmoose, 04 septembre 2013 - 06:42 .

[Provi-dance]

As for how to solve healing spells making no health regen pointless: make healing spells PER REST resources. You can cast a particular healing spell let's say 5 times and then it goes on cooldown until you rest.
It would make healing spells precious, yes.

[Taura-Tierno]

Trafalgar-Law wrote...

Taura-Tierno wrote...

Trafalgar-Law wrote...

cJohnOne wrote...

But in the video they only needed 1 health potion. It's an assumption that the damage you take will out strip your resources and that this can't be balanced. If this is the case there isn't any tedium to speak of..

That's all well and good, but that's just one battle. I'm not maknig an assumption. I'm basing my analysis on what we've already seen in the previous DA games. Going by all of the battles in the previous games, unless they've severely nerfed the enemies (which defeats the whole purpose of taking away health regen), we're still going to be dealing with foes who can randomly one shot your party members or otherwise deal massive amounts of damage. We'll also be running into traps and otherwise unpredictable circumstances.

Why do people assume that they'd change one important balancing aspect of combat and leave the rest unaltered?

Because that's what Bioware tends to do? Why do people analyze the game in a vacuum as oppossed to taking the developers previous work into consideration?

I highly doubt that they're going to make so people will have to spend HOURS backtracking tedious routes just to heal up because they cannot progress otherwise.

As I've already suggested, they've really only got three options here. They can (1) nerf the enemies to the extent where backtracking to your fort is not necessary. Problem is that this defeats the purpose of taking away health regen since players aren't going be that challenged. They can (2) keep the enemies tough, thus force tedious backtracking. As I've discussed (and as you seem to agree), this is BAD idea. Or they can (3) create safezones near battle, thus take away backtracking while simaltaneously keeping the enemies challenging. Problem with this is that it also defeats the point of removing health regen since players don't have to worry much about conserving their health since they only have to deal with the inconvenience of traversing back to the safe zone.

Frankly, the system wasn't broken in the first place. I think the "injuries" feature already addresses their concerns. Limiting the amount of health potions you have is also a good idea in terms of conservation. If you're out of health potions, you have to win battles without them. This system doesn't involve nerfing or pointless backtracking. Hopefully BW wises up before the game is released.

Why are you saying that there are only 3  possible options? That is not the case. There could be other things they've thought of. Or there could be any number of combinations of ideas, depending on how much they want people to feel challanged. The real issue isn't if there will be backtracking, it's if the backtracking will get intolerable. There is already some backtracking in virtually every game that offers a lot of open world exploration or large dungeons or similat things. 

You're just talking like they've built the entire combat- health- and magic system for the purpose of having automatic health regen, and then just scrapping that particular feature. I think they will have built the combat- health and magic-system around the fact that there is no automatic health regeneration. For instance, so that you will be able to beat one "dungeon" without having to backtrack for a tedious amount of time in order to heal. That is, that the game will not expect you to be at full health every time you enter combat and that it will be balanced around that fact. 

Now, whether or not you'll be able to explore 100% of the game without ever backtracking ... that I doubt. But the game seems to be built around that concept anyway, since enemies don't level with you. Some areas will be too difficult when you encounter them first. If they are, return later. 

The entire discussions feels like it works on the assumption that health regeneration is very common in games. It's never been the norm, though. There sooooo many games that don't have any kind of automatic health regeneration. Across all genres. And it works well, for most games. There's no reason it will not work here. 

[PillarBiter]

I hate to state the obvious and it's probably already been said, but why not
A) make healing a specialisation for mages (ie the basic skill tree has no heal skills)
Have huge reset timers on healing?

That pretty much solves it in my book...

[fchopin]

MrCry0 wrote...

I hate to state the obvious and it's probably already been said, but why not
A) make healing a specialisation for mages (ie the basic skill tree has no heal skills)
Have huge reset timers on healing?

That pretty much solves it in my book...

What use will healing have if it has huge reset timers?
I only use powers that are useful, if a healer mage is useless then they can stay home and look after the chickens.

[PinkShoes]

I dont mind our health not regening but there must be health regen items and i bet everyone will have a healer in their group now lol im more worried about we have limited health items, will it be fair?

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Provi-dance wrote...

As for how to solve healing spells making no health regen pointless: make healing spells PER REST resources. You can cast a particular healing spell let's say 5 times and then it goes on cooldown until you rest.
It would make healing spells precious, yes.

That sounds similar to...

DUN DUN DUN!! ...

...Vancian Casting, which is the root of all non-bigotry related evil if the BSN is to be believed.

[Sidney]

Provi-dance wrote...

As for how to solve healing spells making no health regen pointless: make healing spells PER REST resources. You can cast a particular healing spell let's say 5 times and then it goes on cooldown until you rest.
It would make healing spells precious, yes.

Why? Why is 5 or 3 or 7 the magic # of fights you can have before resting? What is resting other than a fake time wasting mechanism to do one thing...heal.

This really comes down to one thing - why are you penalizing people for needing to heal? In a game with dungeon crawls through walls of mooks you are going to get hit. You are going to need to heal. Healing is not a challenge (as in requiring any thought) it is a time suck. It isn't about being good or bad at combat because I'm pretty good at combat and I'll take a pretty bad beating from time to time.

Don't make me take time BETWEEN fights do things. If you want the game to be a bigger challenge make it a challenge where it is fun - IN the combat. Give me smarter foes, give me foes that run a decent combined arms fight...something but making me heal or go to camp to make it "tough" is lazy.

[Taura-Tierno]

Since when has dungeon crawl been a great focus for Bioware's RPG games ...? Very large areas that take a lot of time to cover with no means of returning to the closest town (or otherwise safe area) are pretty rare. The Deep Roads in the Dragonage games is pretty much the only such place I can think of, where it would be extremely tedious to travel back just to heal.

And we still don't know how many health potions you'll be able to get. Perhaps the potions, combined with magical healing and some planning and not engaging in fights way beyond your level will be more than enough.

There have still been plenty of games featuring no or very limited automatic health regeneration where there has not been a lot of (if any) criticism of that aspect.

If classical adventure games like the Zelda games do not have any kind of automatic health regeneration after combat. And you take a lot of beatings.

Sidney wrote...

Don't make me take time BETWEEN fights do things. If you want the game to be a bigger challenge make it a challenge where it is fun - IN the combat. Give me smarter foes, give me foes that run a decent combined arms fight...something but making me heal or go to camp to make it "tough" is lazy.

Some of us grealy appreciate stuff between combat. Not everyone cares the most about combat. In fact, RPG-games tend to have a lot of focus on doing stuff to do things. It's a pretty integral part of the genre.

[Sidney]

Taura-Tierno wrote...

Sidney wrote...

Don't make me take time BETWEEN fights do things. If you want the game to be a bigger challenge make it a challenge where it is fun - IN the combat. Give me smarter foes, give me foes that run a decent combined arms fight...something but making me heal or go to camp to make it "tough" is lazy.

Some of us grealy appreciate stuff between combat. Not everyone cares the most about combat. In fact, RPG-games tend to have a lot of focus on doing stuff to do things. It's a pretty integral part of the genre.

I appreciate non-combat things. Combat in the Bioware games frankly really usually sucks and is a amateur night affair so put your superiority card back in the deck. I play their games for the story and characters so throwing non-regen means that I wind up spending more time trying to slog through the dungeons instead of dealing with the plot, characters and dialog.

Plus, seriously, you appreciate drinking potions and hitting the "rest" button. Right.

[Sidney]

Taura-Tierno wrote...

Since when has dungeon crawl been a great focus for Bioware's RPG games ...? Very large areas that take a lot of time to cover with no means of returning to the closest town (or otherwise safe area) are pretty rare. The Deep Roads in the Dragonage games is pretty much the only such place I can think of, where it would be extremely tedious to travel back just to heal.

And we still don't know how many health potions you'll be able to get. Perhaps the potions, combined with magical healing and some planning and not engaging in fights way beyond your level will be more than enough.

BG isn't a crawl in the sense of being one long dungeon but it is one long world. If you got mauled in some "square" you didn't move onto the next square because you'd die in that fight. Is that a crawl? No not really in the Deep Roades sense but it is reflective of problems with the non-regn.

The problem is that if you have so many potions, and DAO did for sure, then it doesn't matter if you have regn or not. Same with casting healing spells out of combat with regen mana. The only way the non-regen can matter is if you have inventory limits on potions and casting limits on spells because otherwise people will just put themselves back to full health anyways. This it the problem with the non-regen spot you either have it work like BG where it was a huge PiTA or don't bother because it wont matter.

[Taura-Tierno]

Sidney wrote...

Taura-Tierno wrote...

Sidney wrote...

Don't make me take time BETWEEN fights do things. If you want the game to be a bigger challenge make it a challenge where it is fun - IN the combat. Give me smarter foes, give me foes that run a decent combined arms fight...something but making me heal or go to camp to make it "tough" is lazy.

Some of us grealy appreciate stuff between combat. Not everyone cares the most about combat. In fact, RPG-games tend to have a lot of focus on doing stuff to do things. It's a pretty integral part of the genre.

I appreciate non-combat things. Combat in the Bioware games frankly really usually sucks and is a amateur night affair so put your superiority card back in the deck. I play their games for the story and characters so throwing non-regen means that I wind up spending more time trying to slog through the dungeons instead of dealing with the plot, characters and dialog.

Plus, seriously, you appreciate drinking potions and hitting the "rest" button. Right.

You are the one who said "Don't make me take time BETWEEN fights do things". 

I don't think it's "fun" to drink potions or rest, or whatever. I do think it adds another type of challenge, if implemented in a good way, when you don't have automatic health regeneration. If anything, it reminds me much more of classical pen and paper RPG's, where you have to manage your health and your ways to increase it between combats. Make sure you have sufficient potions. Make sure to fight in a smart way. Retreat if a combat is too tough. Etc.

Sidney wrote...

Taura-Tierno wrote...

Since when has dungeon crawl been a great focus for Bioware's RPG games ...? Very large areas that take a lot of time to cover with no means of returning to the closest town (or otherwise safe area) are pretty rare. The Deep Roads in the Dragonage games is pretty much the only such place I can think of, where it would be extremely tedious to travel back just to heal. 

And we still don't know how many health potions you'll be able to get. Perhaps the potions, combined with magical healing and some planning and not engaging in fights way beyond your level will be more than enough. 

BG isn't a crawl in the sense of being one long dungeon but it is one long world. If you got mauled in some "square" you didn't move onto the next square because you'd die in that fight. Is that a crawl? No not really in the Deep Roades sense but it is reflective of problems with the non-regn.

The problem is that if you have so many potions, and DAO did for sure, then it doesn't matter if you have regn or not. Same with casting healing spells out of combat with regen mana. The only way the non-regen can matter is if you have inventory limits on potions and casting limits on spells because otherwise people will just put themselves back to full health anyways. This it the problem with the non-regen spot you either have it work like BG where it was a huge PiTA or don't bother because it wont matter.

If a combat gest you totally mauled, maybe you didn't play it in a smart way and should try again. Or perhaps it is simply indicative of an area that's too difficult during you current level and should be saved for later. Or perhaps it is not eve intended that you should be able to explore an entire area at once, for other design reasons. 

Also, every depends on where and how often these base camps can be set up, and when and if you can fast travel to them. It's a balancing act. I see no reason to assume that Bioware will make the game tedious and too difficult to play. 

[Ecmoose]

Taura-Tierno wrote...

Also, every depends on where and how often these base camps can be set up, and when and if you can fast travel to them. It's a balancing act. I see no reason to assume that Bioware will make the game tedious and too difficult to play. 

It's good to see someone else who sees how this could be a decent move.

Too many comparisons to the DAO and DA2 games are being made, considering the combat system has had an overhaul when it was placed into a new engine.

There are a million ways to balance a game without health regen (As Taura-Tierno mentioned, both Pen and Paper games and Zelda games exist just fine without contant healing spells.) and in fact, static health has been the norm for years. It's more common in video games then regenerating health which is a relatively new idea. So I don't understand everyone who assumes it can not be done well.

[Sidney]

Ecmoose wrote...

Taura-Tierno wrote...

Also, every depends on where and how often these base camps can be set up, and when and if you can fast travel to them. It's a balancing act. I see no reason to assume that Bioware will make the game tedious and too difficult to play. 

It's good to see someone else who sees how this could be a decent move.

Too many comparisons to the DAO and DA2 games are being made, considering the combat system has had an overhaul when it was placed into a new engine.

There are a million ways to balance a game without health regen (As Taura-Tierno mentioned, both Pen and Paper games and Zelda games exist just fine without contant healing spells.) and in fact, static health has been the norm for years. It's more common in video games then regenerating health which is a relatively new idea. So I don't understand everyone who assumes it can not be done well.

Pen and paper games tend to be rather less combat intensive in my experience so the issue isn't as important. The problem is when you have room after room of something like the dwarven crime bosses lair you can grind things to a halt very quickly after each fight.  Yes, we all played BG or KoTOR where we didn't auto-regen so it can be done the thing is after going back and playing those games again you (should) realize that the lack of the regen doesn't buy you anything in game terms.

Toss in that it makes no sense and only reinforces the bad perception that hit point/health are how much abuse your physical self can take - and the grpahics don't help by showing arrows sticking out of you and blood spurts - but the reality is no one can take the number of sword/axe/hammer/arrow hits shown in these games. Health is always been an abstraction more of your ability to not get hit - a combo of luck and skill - more than saying you could lie on the floor and get stabbed 10 times by a long sword before dying. Auto regen reflects that a lot more than static health.

Yes, you can fight smart but unlike a better tactical engine like the XCOM game you can't do as much to mitigate risk and injury in the DA* series. It is rare to enter a fight and leave unscathed and with level sclaing it isn't the game teaching you not to go here.

[DarthLaxian]

Provi-dance wrote...

As for how to solve healing spells making no health regen pointless: make healing spells PER REST resources. You can cast a particular healing spell let's say 5 times and then it goes on cooldown until you rest.
It would make healing spells precious, yes.

and turn your spirit-healer into a useless character (like a mage in games where magic does not regenerate - you become a regular beater without it (a bad one, too because mages are normally not weapon-trained - not like a character that really trains with those!))

so no way

still fixing what is not broken (i want the DA:O/DA2 system back: health regeneration)

greetings LAX

[Taura-Tierno]

Sidney wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...

Taura-Tierno wrote...

Also, every depends on where and how often these base camps can be set up, and when and if you can fast travel to them. It's a balancing act. I see no reason to assume that Bioware will make the game tedious and too difficult to play. 

It's good to see someone else who sees how this could be a decent move.

Too many comparisons to the DAO and DA2 games are being made, considering the combat system has had an overhaul when it was placed into a new engine.

There are a million ways to balance a game without health regen (As Taura-Tierno mentioned, both Pen and Paper games and Zelda games exist just fine without contant healing spells.) and in fact, static health has been the norm for years. It's more common in video games then regenerating health which is a relatively new idea. So I don't understand everyone who assumes it can not be done well.

Pen and paper games tend to be rather less combat intensive in my experience so the issue isn't as important. The problem is when you have room after room of something like the dwarven crime bosses lair you can grind things to a halt very quickly after each fight.  Yes, we all played BG or KoTOR where we didn't auto-regen so it can be done the thing is after going back and playing those games again you (should) realize that the lack of the regen doesn't buy you anything in game terms.

Toss in that it makes no sense and only reinforces the bad perception that hit point/health are how much abuse your physical self can take - and the grpahics don't help by showing arrows sticking out of you and blood spurts - but the reality is no one can take the number of sword/axe/hammer/arrow hits shown in these games. Health is always been an abstraction more of your ability to not get hit - a combo of luck and skill - more than saying you could lie on the floor and get stabbed 10 times by a long sword before dying. Auto regen reflects that a lot more than static health.

Yes, you can fight smart but unlike a better tactical engine like the XCOM game you can't do as much to mitigate risk and injury in the DA* series. It is rare to enter a fight and leave unscathed and with level sclaing it isn't the game teaching you not to go here.

Pen and Paper games can be extremely combat oriented (Dungeons and Dragons is very combat encounter oriented), althogh everything depends on the people who play. But, I mean, D&D is pretty iconic in terms of fantasy role-playing, and it manages fine without health regen. Mostly because you build campaigns with those rules in mind and make sure it won't be an unnecessary hassle. 

I agree with your view on hit points (in Dungeons&Dragons, at least the editions I've played, you get "bloodied" after losing half of your HP, indicating that that's the first time blood is actually drawn in some way). 

You say that autoregen reflects this, but I don't agree; with autoregen you can fight your way through very tough boss battles and dungeon after dungeon and come out of it all seemingly unscathed. That just feels weird to me. 

I actually am replaying KotoR right now, and I think it does add a little bit of extra immersion. You have to plan your party accordingly, and make sure you have a decent amount of health packs with you. Feels like they'll take it a bit further in DA:I, but I don't mind. I am very intersted in seeing how this could be great an very immersive, because I believe they'll balance it in a good way. 

I get that people are worried. I don't want to have to retreat and backtrack after every battle. I do not consider that a very likely possibility, though, considering that they made these new, very huge areas so we CAN explore a lot of open terrain. Having to retreat and leave the area after every battle would kind of defeat that purpose. It would not make sense. 

Another way to handle it would be to have more, smaller encounters, and skip the whole wave-thing from DA2 that we all disliked. Make it easier to determine whether you want to engage or not. 

[Provi-dance]

CrustyBot wrote...

Provi-dance wrote...

As for how to solve healing spells making no health regen pointless: make healing spells PER REST resources. You can cast a particular healing spell let's say 5 times and then it goes on cooldown until you rest.
It would make healing spells precious, yes.

That sounds similar to...

DUN DUN DUN!! ...

...Vancian Casting, which is the root of all non-bigotry related evil if the BSN is to be believed.

Hhahaaha good one. And you were right.

Some people don't understand that limiting the number of times you can cast a spell (until you rest) means the spell can be made even more powerful and flashy and awe..inspiring!
So I'm not sure why they're upset.. again.

Also, someone mentioned something along the lines of "whhy you want to LIMIT mee!?" Quite simple. RPGs have inherent mehanical limitations that serve to balance the game. If the goal is to enhance the elements of adventure, strategy and planning by having no health regeneration: then you need to consider other aspects such as potions and healing spells, and make them not collide with that design goal. 

[Ecmoose]

Sidney wrote...

Yes, we all played BG or KoTOR where we didn't auto-regen so it can be done the thing is after going back and playing those games again you (should) realize that the lack of the regen doesn't buy you anything in game terms.

Maybe not for you, but there's a reason I replay BG and KoTOR more often then I play DA2. I like the combat better. It makes no sense to me that Hawke can fight wave after wave of enemies. Step into another room, and do the same thing. No one has endurance like that, and to me it comes off as cheesy. 

Having a PC that shows some sort of lasting effects from combat makes sense to me. 

Pen and Paper can be, though isn't always, extremely combat oriented. Many times I've found myself with only 5 health left in a dungeon, my party members much the same, but pressed on hoping we could beat the odds. Sometimes my character died, sometimes he came out victorious. To me, that's exciting. 

I think pressing the odds, and beating a boss battle after having used up most of your rescources just to get to him is thrilling. Starting every single fight fresh faced and with every option at your disposal is relaxing, but that's not how I enjoy my combat.

Modifié par Ecmoose, 05 septembre 2013 - 04:37 .

[cjones91]

Provi-dance wrote...

CrustyBot wrote...

Provi-dance wrote...

As for how to solve healing spells making no health regen pointless: make healing spells PER REST resources. You can cast a particular healing spell let's say 5 times and then it goes on cooldown until you rest.
It would make healing spells precious, yes.

That sounds similar to...

DUN DUN DUN!! ...

...Vancian Casting, which is the root of all non-bigotry related evil if the BSN is to be believed.

Hhahaaha good one. And you were right.

Some people don't understand that limiting the number of times you can cast a spell (until you rest) means the spell can be made even more powerful and flashy and awe..inspiring!
So I'm not sure why they're upset.. again.

Also, someone mentioned something along the lines of "whhy you want to LIMIT mee!?" Quite simple. RPGs have inherent mehanical limitations that serve to balance the game. If the goal is to enhance the elements of adventure, strategy and planning by having no health regeneration: then you need to consider other aspects such as potions and healing spells, and make them not collide with that design goal. 

While I like games with no health regen sometimes the game needs to give players some options in regards to healing after major fights.For example give them a one time full health recovery that the player can only use two times for when they are low on health,that way the player won't need to back track just when they reach a boss.

Depending on how the potions work they may only restore a portion of health to prevent the player from abusing them,so these full recovery items will be very hard to make and are only used in a tight spot.

[Volus Warlord]

I doubt they would leave the whole "no health regen" thing in the game if it made it unplayable.

Leave it be, give them the benefit of a doubt, and let's see what we get.

[cjones91]

Ecmoose wrote...

Sidney wrote...

Yes, we all played BG or KoTOR where we didn't auto-regen so it can be done the thing is after going back and playing those games again you (should) realize that the lack of the regen doesn't buy you anything in game terms.

Maybe not for you, but there's a reason I replay BG and KoTOR more often then I play DA2. I like the combat better. It makes no sense to me that Hawke can fight wave after wave of enemies. Step into another room, and do the same thing. No one has endurance like that, and to me it comes off as cheesy. 

Having a PC that shows some sort of lasting effects from combat makes sense to me. 

Pen and Paper can be, though isn't always, extremely combat oriented. Many times I've found myself with only 5 health left in a dungeon, my party members much the same, but pressed on hoping we could beat the odds. Sometimes my character died, sometimes he came out victorious. To me, that's exciting. 

I think pressing the odds, and beating a boss battle after having used up most of your rescources just to get to him is thrilling. Starting every single fight fresh faced and with every option at your disposal is relaxing, but that's not how I enjoy my combat.

I'm like Batman when it comes to games,I stock up on everything and make sure I have enough skills/weapons so any enemy I come across can be dealt with.I'm also a massive hoarder and like collecting items so the no health regen won't effect me as much.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

I want to "Regen" when it's safe and I press "R".

[cjones91]

Kaiser Arian wrote...

I want to "Regen" when it's safe and I press "R".

That sounds great but many people would abuse it unless health regenerated at a painfully slow pace like in some Megaman games.

[DarthLaxian]

Ecmoose wrote...

Sidney wrote...

Yes, we all played BG or KoTOR where we didn't auto-regen so it can be done the thing is after going back and playing those games again you (should) realize that the lack of the regen doesn't buy you anything in game terms.

Maybe not for you, but there's a reason I replay BG and KoTOR more often then I play DA2. I like the combat better. It makes no sense to me that Hawke can fight wave after wave of enemies. Step into another room, and do the same thing. No one has endurance like that, and to me it comes off as cheesy. 

Having a PC that shows some sort of lasting effects from combat makes sense to me. 

Pen and Paper can be, though isn't always, extremely combat oriented. Many times I've found myself with only 5 health left in a dungeon, my party members much the same, but pressed on hoping we could beat the odds. Sometimes my character died, sometimes he came out victorious. To me, that's exciting. 

I think pressing the odds, and beating a boss battle after having used up most of your rescources just to get to him is thrilling. Starting every single fight fresh faced and with every option at your disposal is relaxing, but that's not how I enjoy my combat.

well, you play the games for the combat and the challenge then - but:

i would say, most players of Bioware-Games are not like that, most play for the story, the companions, the romances etc. - combat may be liked by these people, too but it is not why they (we - because i am one of them...though i still like combat, too) play!

and for us, regenerating health, non-limited use of spells etc. is very good, because it keeps the flow (backtracking, resting etc. break that) of combat and story (we play to see the story, and being stuck somewhere, waiting (resting is essentially waiting as you can't to squat while your character simulates sleeping!) or making/buying health-potions (before you can even enter the dungeong with there being a chance you succeed in beating it) etc. it is - to repeat myself: TEDIOUS for us and not to our liking)

as for there being more games with non-regenerating health:

that's because those games are the games of the last 15-20 years - say that again in 10 years and it will be a different matter IMHO!

greetings LAX

[Ecmoose]

DarthLaxian wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...

Sidney wrote...

Yes, we all played BG or KoTOR where we didn't auto-regen so it can be done the thing is after going back and playing those games again you (should) realize that the lack of the regen doesn't buy you anything in game terms.

Maybe not for you, but there's a reason I replay BG and KoTOR more often then I play DA2. I like the combat better. It makes no sense to me that Hawke can fight wave after wave of enemies. Step into another room, and do the same thing. No one has endurance like that, and to me it comes off as cheesy. 

Having a PC that shows some sort of lasting effects from combat makes sense to me. 

Pen and Paper can be, though isn't always, extremely combat oriented. Many times I've found myself with only 5 health left in a dungeon, my party members much the same, but pressed on hoping we could beat the odds. Sometimes my character died, sometimes he came out victorious. To me, that's exciting. 

I think pressing the odds, and beating a boss battle after having used up most of your rescources just to get to him is thrilling. Starting every single fight fresh faced and with every option at your disposal is relaxing, but that's not how I enjoy my combat.

well, you play the games for the combat and the challenge then - but:

i would say, most players of Bioware-Games are not like that, most play for the story, the companions, the romances etc. - combat may be liked by these people, too but it is not why they (we - because i am one of them...though i still like combat, too) play!

and for us, regenerating health, non-limited use of spells etc. is very good, because it keeps the flow (backtracking, resting etc. break that) of combat and story (we play to see the story, and being stuck somewhere, waiting (resting is essentially waiting as you can't to squat while your character simulates sleeping!) or making/buying health-potions (before you can even enter the dungeong with there being a chance you succeed in beating it) etc. it is - to repeat myself: TEDIOUS for us and not to our liking)

as for there being more games with non-regenerating health:

that's because those games are the games of the last 15-20 years - say that again in 10 years and it will be a different matter IMHO!

greetings LAX

I'm tired of this odd idea that a gamer can't like Combat AND Story. I've played through Mass Effect more times then I can count, just for the changes in story. I read extended universe material for every RPG I play, because I love the story. But if I only wanted story, then I would buy a book and leave it at that.

I understand that some people play BW games mostly for the story with a side of combat. That's what easier difficulties are for, health regen or no, those will be tailored to make sure you can enjoy the story. In storymode of ME3 I could stand in the middle of a battlefield without ever taking cover and not die, I'm sure DAIs easy mode will be much the same.

I want good story and intense combat in equal measure. Yes, those people do in fact exist. I can revel in decapitating a genlock and then go back to camp and flirt with Morrigan, because I enjoy both aspects. 

Can we please stop pigeonholing each other?