526 réponses à ce sujet

[Genshie]

n7stormrunner wrote...

Genshie wrote...

I like how a lot of people are screaming "foul" feel that they are being "forced" with certain party set-ups when this is an RPG. Most rpgs have the staple healer character in the party or the party that does extreme dps/burst damage to the degree where you don't need a healer. (Or even party members that have equipment/spells that heal themselves over time) I just recently did the entire Last Straw quest in DA2 on Nigthmare difficulty without Anders (I was a rogue archer with assassination/shadow spec. members were Aveline (tank), Merrill (dps), and Varric (dps) as well as dog for off-tank)

I confused why the wouldn't want a healer along... except anders I rarely used him.

The challenge I guess or for the different choice in the story? I chose Templars because I typically pick to support mages and I wanted to do something different. I was really hoping to persuade Anders but I guess you could only do that if you romance him? In short I made the game a bit harder for myself. Though I can say I did it without wiping or reloading. Thank Bob that you can make Aveline one beast of a tank.

Modifié par Genshie, 02 septembre 2013 - 09:49 .

[9TailsFox]

Zetheria Tabris wrote...

If the healing spells are anything like DAII's, they're less than helpful. Especially with a long cooldown.

This. people cry what heat not regain and mana regen. healing spells cooldown 10-20 min problem solved.

[Genshie]

9TailsFox wrote...

Zetheria Tabris wrote...

If the healing spells are anything like DAII's, they're less than helpful. Especially with a long cooldown.

This. people cry what heat not regain and mana regen. healing spells cooldown 10-20 min problem solved.

That is way too long. 5 minutes tops if that. You're pratically gimping people who want to play healer in DA.

Modifié par Genshie, 02 septembre 2013 - 09:55 .

[Wulfram]

n7stormrunner wrote...

I confused why the wouldn't want a healer along... except anders I rarely used him.

Because I want to try a different party make up with different tactics?  Because I like the non-healers more?  Though it'll be less of a problem if we get 3 mages all of whom can heal at least a little bit.

DA2 actually had a good balance with healing.  You wanted it, but you could certainly do well with out it.  I'd rather not dump that for healers being obligatory unless you're prepared to put up with lots of tedium or spent large chunks of cash of an ocean of potions.

[Zetheria Tabris]

Genshie wrote...

That is way too long. 5 minutes tops if that. You're pratically gimping people who want to play healer in DA.

That's honestly the only way mages won't be used to cheat the no health regen thing, though.

[n7stormrunner]

Genshie wrote...

n7stormrunner wrote...

Genshie wrote...

I like how a lot of people are screaming "foul" feel that they are being "forced" with certain party set-ups when this is an RPG. Most rpgs have the staple healer character in the party or the party that does extreme dps/burst damage to the degree where you don't need a healer. (Or even party members that have equipment/spells that heal themselves over time) I just recently did the entire Last Straw quest in DA2 on Nigthmare difficulty without Anders (I was a rogue archer with assassination/shadow spec. members were Aveline (tank), Merrill (dps), and Varric (dps) as well as dog for off-tank)

I confused why the wouldn't want a healer along... except anders I rarely used him.

The challenge I guess or for the different choice in the story? I chose Templars because I typically pick to support mages and I wanted to do something different. I was really hoping to persuade Anders but I guess you could only do that if you romance him? In short I made the game a bit harder for myself. Though I can say I did it without wiping or reloading. Thank Bob that you can make Aveline one beast of a tank.

works for me... don't know about anders though

[Genshie]

Zetheria Tabris wrote...

Genshie wrote...

That is way too long. 5 minutes tops if that. You're pratically gimping people who want to play healer in DA.

That's honestly the only way mages won't be used to cheat the no health regen thing, though.

 Yeah and I don't see how 5 minutes would be a bad thing. You wouldn't be able to spam it but you will have access to it again eventually. And now you are just making the whole camp travel issue pop up if you do this. (Most people don't want to be making constant fields trips to their camps/bases to just heal up over and over)

[Zetheria Tabris]

Genshie wrote...


Yeah and I don't see how 5 minutes would be a bad thing. You wouldn't be able to spam it but you will have access to it again eventually. And now you are just making the whole camp travel issue pop up if you do this. (Most people don't want to be making constant fields trips to their camps/bases to just heal up over and over)

There should be an option to make a makeshift camp in open areas where there are no enemies nearby. You should be able to heal and talk to your companions. Just like the camp in Origins, only you can camp anywhere safe.

[Paul E Dangerously]

Genshie wrote...

I like how a lot of people are screaming "foul" feel that they are being "forced" with certain party set-ups when this is an RPG. Most rpgs have the staple healer character in the party or the party that does extreme dps/burst damage to the degree where you don't need a healer. (Or even party members that have equipment/spells that heal themselves over time) I just recently did the entire Last Straw quest in DA2 on Nigthmare difficulty without Anders (I was a rogue archer with assassination/shadow spec. members were Aveline (tank), Merrill (dps), and Varric (dps) as well as dog for off-tank)

The thing is, most other RPGs allow for several ways to get through a situation without an ideal party setup. DA takes more after an MMO, in which a character has the damn DPS/Tank/Heal roles and that's it.

[Ecmoose]

AlexJK wrote...

Maverick827 (OP) wrote...

See where this is going?  Madness...

You are beyond missing the point.

Lenimph wrote...

Obviously it's too early to say anything, but I shouldn't be shoehorned into playing a lesser diffculty if I don't want to have a mage in my party or a mage not dedicated to healing.

It's not forcing you into anything. Lower difficulty levels exist precisely so that if you don't want to worry about having to manage your health and resources (for example, by travelling with a healer - hardly an unreasonable thing to do in such a game!), then you don't have to. This isn't forcing (or "shoehorning") you into anything, it's simply allowing you to make a choice about how you'd like to play; either you can learn to manage your resources effectively, or tone the difficulty down so that you can explore all the content without worrying about it.

Zetheria Tabris wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

[Mike] Laidlaw said that mana/stamina will regenerate, though the details will came later.

Then that's kind of defeating the purpose of the "challenge" isn't it?

Is it? What if mana regenerates, but extremely slowly, and heal spells are very expensive? Still pointless?

This, all of this.

[Blackrising]

I'm not a fan of the whole 'no health regen' thing.
But that's my own problem, really. I usually play on casual and LIKE feeling badass and like no enemy can scratch me. It's gonna be harder to stomp everyone in the ground when my health doesn't get regenerated AND I can't stock up on unlimited potions.

We'll see.
(Though if combat ends up being like in The Witcher 2, I'm gonna have a problem. I didn't even manage to complete the damn tutorial without biting the dust. In easy mode. That was pretty..demotivating.)

[Reznore57]

I'm not looking forward to the non health regen.
The area are big , so getting back to camp to regen is just plain annoying.
I can see a lot of walking back and forth , oh and running once you aggro things you can't fight!
Well at least I'm very good at running away.
For now , nothing I heard convinced me that it would be a cool feature , it just screams ANNOYING.

The funny thing is I do like to prepare for travel.I have numerous mod in Skyrim , like cold and deadly weather , need for food , sleep ,drink etc..
And it's enjoyable because the game provide me with the things I need ( with crafting) and I'm almost never stuck , there's always a solution if I want to go on , I go back to cities when I want to

[Wulfram]

AlexJK wrote...

Is it? What if mana regenerates, but extremely slowly, and heal spells are very expensive? Still pointless?

Yes.  All slowing regeneration does is increase tedium.

[AlexJK]

Wulfram wrote...

Yes.  All slowing regeneration does is increase tedium.

... for players whose goal is to rush from encounter to encounter as fast as they can. Clearly that's not the design goal for DAI (or in those areas where it is, for example taking a Keep, it's the whole point).

So, like I said, if you're that kind of player, crank the difficulty down and all is well - you'll lose less health, and need to expend fewer resources such as mana in dispatching your enemies.

[Wulfram]

AlexJK wrote...

... for players whose goal is to rush from encounter to encounter as fast as they can. Clearly that's not the design goal for DAI (or in those areas where it is, for example taking a Keep, it's the whole point).

So what is the design goal here?  To encourage players to increase their literacy by adding more periods where absolutely nothing is happening that requires thought or skill so that they'll be compelled to pull out a book to avoid tedium?

I mean, if you're being compelled to play the game then I guess these enforced breaks might be beneficial, but how do they benefit someone who is playing the game for actual fun?

So, like I said, if you're that kind of player, crank the difficulty
down and all is well - you'll lose less health, and need to expend fewer
resources such as mana in dispatching your enemies.

I want combat to be challenging and tactical and not boring.  Your suggestion achieves the opposite.

edit:
Scenario A:  I win a combat encounter, continue playing the game
Scenario B:  I win a combat encounter, read a newspaper article, continue playing the game
Scenario C:  I win a combat encounter, go make some toast, continue playing the game

How is scenario C the best one?

Modifié par Wulfram, 02 septembre 2013 - 11:02 .

[Herr Uhl]

Wulfram wrote...

AlexJK wrote...

... for players whose goal is to rush from encounter to encounter as fast as they can. Clearly that's not the design goal for DAI (or in those areas where it is, for example taking a Keep, it's the whole point).

So what is the design goal here?  To encourage players to increase their literacy by adding more periods where absolutely nothing is happening that requires thought or skill so that they'll be compelled to pull out a book to avoid tedium?

I mean, if you're being compelled to play the game then I guess these enforced breaks might be beneficial, but how do they benefit someone who is playing the game for actual fun?

There was a time limit when the enemy was taking the keep. You only had so much time to do stuff. Waiting around for mana to regen would be wasting that time.

[AlexJK]

Wulfram wrote...

So what is the design goal here?  To encourage players to increase their literacy by adding more periods where absolutely nothing is happening that requires thought or skill so that they'll be compelled to pull out a book to avoid tedium?

Juding by some posts on these forums (not yours), that might not be such a bad thing.

But seriously - have you read or watched any of the recent coverage? You're supposed to explore the world, look around your surroundings, investigate what's going on around you. I imagine there might also be some dialogue to engage in, I don't think they've removed that yet.

I mean, if you're being compelled to play the game then I guess these enforced breaks might be beneficial, but how do they benefit someone who is playing the game for actual fun?

What's "actual fun"? If it's rushing from encounter to encounter as fast as you can, sounds like you either need to play a different game, or lower the difficulty level. If it's taking a little time to plan your approach to some parts of the game, then it sounds like you'll enjoy DAI a lot.

I want combat to be challenging and tactical and not boring.  Your suggestion achieves the opposite.

So you want challenging and tactical, but without the tactical and potentially challenging approach required to avoid using all your resources in one go? I don't get it.

[wright1978]

Wulfram wrote...

n7stormrunner wrote...

I confused why the wouldn't want a healer along... except anders I rarely used him.

Because I want to try a different party make up with different tactics?  Because I like the non-healers more?  Though it'll be less of a problem if we get 3 mages all of whom can heal at least a little bit.

DA2 actually had a good balance with healing.  You wanted it, but you could certainly do well with out it.  I'd rather not dump that for healers being obligatory unless you're prepared to put up with lots of tedium or spent large chunks of cash of an ocean of potions.

Yep I don't want to have to drag a healer i may not like round for the entire game just to get a non constantly re-loading experience.

[Wulfram]

AlexJK wrote...

But seriously - have you read or watched any of the recent coverage? You're supposed to explore the world, look around your surroundings, investigate what's going on around you. I imagine there might also be some dialogue to engage in, I don't think they've removed that yet.

You're not going to be exploring the world or talking while healing up, are you?  You're going to be sitting there watching your mana bar and clicking your heal spell occasionally.

What's "actual fun"? If it's rushing from encounter to encounter as fast as you can, sounds like you either need to play a different game, or lower the difficulty level. If it's taking a little time to plan your approach to some parts of the game, then it sounds like you'll enjoy DAI a lot.

Playing the game.  Fighting combat, talking to people, advancing the story. Doing stuff that requires actual thought, not ritualistically pushing the heal button to entertain peoples delusions that this makes things "more strategic".

So you want challenging and tactical, but without the tactical and potentially challenging approach required to avoid using all your resources in one go? I don't get it.

Having no health regen doesn't do that.  It just adds hanging around after combat.  You're still going to make sure you're in top shape before any serious fight.

And I don't anyway think it adds much tactically to have to beat a weak oppenent while using 30% or your resources, rather than defeating a challenging opponent using up to 99% of your resources.  Mostly it just encourages the use of really boring strategies - for example in BG2 if you're saving resources you load up on cheap long lasting defencive buffs and summons and then splatter them with autoattacks.

[Wulfram]

Herr Uhl wrote...

There was a time limit when the enemy was taking the keep. You only had so much time to do stuff. Waiting around for mana to regen would be wasting that time.

OK, that's good, that is an actual point to limiting it.  But it still leaves it as a pure annoyance when you're not on the clock.  Which given all the exploration stuff they've talked about must be the majority of the game.  So I'd rather have the time pressured situations as an exception where health regen is disabled.

Modifié par Wulfram, 02 septembre 2013 - 11:56 .

[Raging_Pulse]

Wulfram wrote...

You're not going to be exploring the world or talking while healing up, are you?  You're going to be sitting there watching your mana bar and clicking your heal spell occasionally.

I think the general idea is to encourage the players to avoid getting into situations like this as much as possible in the first place.

Stock up as much Health/Mana potions and injury kits as possible, pick health and mana-buffing spells and talents, craft or buy Armor and Accessories with healing or regenerative properties, avoid engaging too difficult monsters and obvious high level random encounters, etc...
Basically, put at least a teeny-tiny bit of though and effort in preparation before heading out from your base into the wilderness, and you should be relatively fine. On default difficulty setting at least, I guess.

At least, that's how I hope it works.

[TheDon81]

Ecmoose wrote...

And by giving you your health regen, they take away the preparation and the forethought that they want to go into each encounter, thus cheapening their game. If you NEED to kill everything, then you shouldn't have any problems leveling, and unless you attempt to attack things way above your level, you should be fine.

However if you absolutely have to kill everything then good luck, seeing as enemies won't scale with your level.

(Also there will be no fast travel mechanic either, so you're really going to have to be prepared)

This is the way most modern RPG's work. You battle through to a safe area, but until then your health is reliant on inventory and mana management. I'm surprised to see so many people up in arms about it.

THIS! I totally agree.
While out and exploring, you are in danger, but as soon as you hit a town, you are safe and you can actually feel the relief and tension fade.
They should also have no checkpoints outside of towns (toggle option?) to give you that feeling of unsafety.

I know, I know... you are gonna reply "this isn't Dark Souls Age", I personally don't find those games hard, and don't care for them much either.

The point is not to make it hard, but to get a feeling of dread and relief.
After a long journey you are low on stock, so you have to ignore enemies and caves, to come back for them later after saving.

[LexXxich]

If we are going off with health regeneration, going "oldschool", why don't we go all the way? No mana/stamina regen, give back isometric camera, remove voiced PC. Now we are talking.

But here, Bioware is just trying to fit on two chairs. "Hey you have active dodge and the combat is like in Severance, but there's totally strategic and tactical level too!"

And on checkpoints. Bioware programmers and QA has yet to make a game that never CtD, froze or corrupted a save file. So having multiple save files and ability to save anytime outside of combat is a must.

[Mihura]

TheDon81 wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...

And by giving you your health regen, they take away the preparation and the forethought that they want to go into each encounter, thus cheapening their game. If you NEED to kill everything, then you shouldn't have any problems leveling, and unless you attempt to attack things way above your level, you should be fine.

However if you absolutely have to kill everything then good luck, seeing as enemies won't scale with your level.

(Also there will be no fast travel mechanic either, so you're really going to have to be prepared)

This is the way most modern RPG's work. You battle through to a safe area, but until then your health is reliant on inventory and mana management. I'm surprised to see so many people up in arms about it.

THIS! I totally agree.
While out and exploring, you are in danger, but as soon as you hit a town, you are safe and you can actually feel the relief and tension fade.
They should also have no checkpoints outside of towns (toggle option?) to give you that feeling of unsafety.

I know, I know... you are gonna reply "this isn't Dark Souls Age", I personally don't find those games hard, and don't care for them much either.

The point is not to make it hard, but to get a feeling of dread and relief.
After a long journey you are low on stock, so you have to ignore enemies and caves, to come back for them later after saving.

Yup I agree with all of this, I am not against making the regen toggle possible but that should be on the easier difficulties only. I like challenging gameplay and I really hope they stick with it. Like someone said you can always play on easy or something like that.

[DarkSpider88]

I am okay without the regen health, but I hate it is combined with limited health potions.