526 réponses à ce sujet

[Loup Blanc]

Cyr8 wrote...

This is the first major 'uh-oh' red flag I've come across. Removing health regen and only allowing you to carry a limited amount of potions is a majorly bad move.

I agree. For people who play mostly for the story and characters, and don't have nights to spend on trying the same fight over and over again, it's definitely concerning. This is what ruined Dragon's Dogma for me. Ended up stuck at night time in the wilderness. No more health-regen and in very hostile territory. If health had been regenerating, I could have made it out alive instead of being stuck on top of a rock. Terrible gaming experience. I hate this type of game that punish you for making the slightest error. Now, hopefully, DAI won't be half as hard as DD on casual mode. But yeah, health regen would be really nice.

[Bleachrude]

Genshie wrote...

I like how a lot of people are screaming "foul" feel that they are being "forced" with certain party set-ups when this is an RPG. Most rpgs have the staple healer character in the party or the party that does extreme dps/burst damage to the degree where you don't need a healer. (Or even party members that have equipment/spells that heal themselves over time) I just recently did the entire Last Straw quest in DA2 on Nigthmare difficulty without Anders (I was a rogue archer with assassination/shadow spec. members were Aveline (tank), Merrill (dps), and Varric (dps) as well as dog for off-tank)

Should be noted that DA2 is better balanced in that on Nightmare difficulty, you CAN leave Bethany, Merrill and Anders behind and still beat the game.

DA:O on th eother hand....

[AlexJK]

Wulfram wrote...

You're not going to be exploring the world or talking while healing up, are you? You're going to be sitting there watching your mana bar and clicking your heal spell occasionally.

Well apparently you are... can't say that sounds fun to me though. I'll be (carefully) exploring the area, seeing what there is to see.

What's "actual fun"?

Playing the game. Fighting combat, talking to people, advancing the story. Doing stuff that requires actual thought, not ritualistically pushing the heal button...

I am completely at a loss as to why you would be sitting there "ritualistically pushing the heal button" when you could instead be exploring, talking to people, and advancing the story - you know, all those things you just mentioned that don't involve combat.

Having no health regen ... just adds hanging around after combat. You're still going to make sure you're in top shape before any serious fight.

Yes, of course you are. That's the point. You will need to spend resources in order to "make sure you're in top shape", instead of bam, you're back to 100% after every encounter.

In reality, I can't see no-regeneration ending up a million miles away from the injury system anyway; persistent reduction in health until you commit resources to do something about it. I don't think it's going to be quite as hardcore as people seem to think.

[Inprea]

I'm quite used to managing resources whenever it comes to dungeon and even open world exploration in a game. So I'm fine with no health regain. Now if they want us to manage our resources the mana regain seems a little strange to me. In most rpgs I've played magic is the most cost efficient way of healing and resource efficient. A group with a healer and a stock of mana potions will spend far less then one that relies on healing potions.

If mana regains on its own though then where is the resource management?

Though I also believe if they did take away mage's mana regain they would need to augment the power of their spells to counter act the cost of using them. I'm reminded of games where you could spend three or four turns hitting the enemies and taking damage or have the mage expend 5% of their mana and fry all the enemies in a single turn.

[Fast Jimmy]

Anyone else smile ear-to-ear reading people's complaints in this thread?

The idea of no health regen is MEANT to be hard. It is MEANT to scare you away from running head-long into combat without regards to consequences. It is MEANT to make you want to avoid tedious healing or backtracking.

If that doesn't sound like fun, then I feel silly saying this but... it shouldn't be. It is combat. Direct, physical conflict. It should come with a price and it should make you feel afraid for your life (or, at the least, your real-life time). It should make you say "do I really want to do this? Is there maybe a way to handle this without fighting? Is it even worth getting myself involved in at all?"

Being a super hero that can swoop in and beat any enemy, at any time, without a scratch or worry to show afterwards, makes every choice pretty easy to make. If, instead, you have to a balance whether of not you go for that extra piece of loot, help that one extra towns person with their quest, that one extra tough fight to say you compltery cleared the dungeon of all life... these are hard decisions when you aren't invulnerable anymore. And it lets you make decisions, consider alternate strategies and allows the developers to actually challenge the player in more ways than determining the most DPS build, like MMO's have hammered in as the only way to solve every problem in RPGs anymore.


Again... if that intimidates you, I'd say drop the difficulty down so that the enemy does negligible damage to you and potion rationing and health regen will likely not be an issue. You can then enjoy the story and being able to fight everything that moves. But the option of the no regen allows a whole set of gameplay options on higher difficulty levels that can make the game exponentially more in-depth, complex and enjoyable for those who like such things.

Given how easily the demo video was in terms of he players not needing to engage in constant unit placement or pause-and-play methods, I'd say most of what we saw was on Easy or maybe even Casual difficulty, so I'd say most people should not be afraid.

[The Elder King]

Great post Jimmy. I agree with everything you said, except that I think Normal isn't going to be that difficult.

[The Antagonist]

Use cheat engine to give yourself 1000 hp points or whatever they call it

[golak]

Angrywolves wrote...

Just watched the 3 Pax Gameplay videos .
Potions are limited and you may have to retreat to one of your bases to rest up.
That's the way it's going to be.

And this i like 100 times more then a regen.

[jwalker]

Angrywolves wrote...

Just watched the 3 Pax Gameplay videos .
Potions are limited and you may have to retreat to one of your bases to rest up.
That's the way it's going to be.

Okay, so they intend making the game last longer with an annoying mechanic. Sounds fun.

[Bleachrude]

I disagree about health regen meaning a game is hard.

Health regen does NOT know make combat harder or easy. What health regen will do is encourage a lot of backtracking especially i if timed missions are relatively rare,

Not sure where the idea of health regen being "easy" comes from since in practise, health regen tends to produce BETTER combat since the designer can work on the assumption that every combat, the players are at maximum health.

One way no-health regen is interesting is that "trash mobs" aka low level enemies can still be used to be a threat since even if an encounter with one bandit group can't kill you, no health regen might mean that 3-4 bandit groups COULD kill you.

[filetemo]

I am sure that, despite not having health regeneration, DA:I will not be difficult, at least on normal difficulty.

Bioware games are a cakewalk on normal difficulty

[Wulfram]

AlexJK wrote...

I am completely at a loss as to why you would be sitting there "ritualistically pushing the heal button" when you could instead be exploring, talking to people, and advancing the story - you know, all those things you just mentioned that don't involve combat.

Doing all those things requires traipsing out of the dungeon and then traipsing back again.  When you could instead do them at a sensible time with less pointless traipsing.  You're just changing the type of busywork.

And it likely makes no sense in the story to just put everything on hold mid-quest.

[Gethrian]

I play Biowares games for their stories not gameplay. If gameplay is great then it's even better but still story is my main focus. Also perfectionist in me won't allow me leave anything unexplored, so if I have to start traveling back to keep to rest just to run (since there apparently isn't fast traveling and some areas I hear are quite large) all the way back where I was or worry over potions doesn't really sound fun to me.

And there's timed missions? If so hopefully not often since I'm not fan of those either (Well depends on how those are implemented) Especially if I now have to worry if I have enough health potions to do them I just like to play in my own pace.

[Fast Jimmy]

Bleachrude wrote...

I disagree about health regen meaning a game is hard.

Health regen does NOT know make combat harder or easy. What health regen will do is encourage a lot of backtracking especially i if timed missions are relatively rare,

Not sure where the idea of health regen being "easy" comes from since in practise, health regen tends to produce BETTER combat since the designer can work on the assumption that every combat, the players are at maximum health.

One way no-health regen is interesting is that "trash mobs" aka low level enemies can still be used to be a threat since even if an encounter with one bandit group can't kill you, no health regen might mean that 3-4 bandit groups COULD kill you.

EXACTLY. 3-4 groups could kill you.

Which means you may talk your way past one, sneak your way past another, use traps to disable another and then fight the last one without nearly as much worry. If, instead, you can fight each one individually and then get instant healing after each fight, why wouldn't you just fight, fight, FIGHT?

No health regen makes the player engage in the entire world holistically, looking at all the options and ramifications, rather than just stabbing their way through every problem that presents itself, like health-regen games encourage. 

[Dubozz]

Ha-ha! Cry more about not regenerating health noobs!!! Feed me your tears!
'running away'

[dielveio]

And yet Demon and Darks Souls don't have Regeneration Health, have limited healing and got critical acclaim from all corners of the world.
Then comes Dragon Age Inquisition with the same thing and now it's a bad thing?
Double standards, anyone?

[TamiBx]

JL81 wrote...

Cyr8 wrote...

This is the first major 'uh-oh' red flag I've come across. Removing health regen and only allowing you to carry a limited amount of potions is a majorly bad move.

I agree. For people who play mostly for the story and characters, and don't have nights to spend on trying the same fight over and over again, it's definitely concerning. This is what ruined Dragon's Dogma for me. Ended up stuck at night time in the wilderness. No more health-regen and in very hostile territory. If health had been regenerating, I could have made it out alive instead of being stuck on top of a rock. Terrible gaming experience. I hate this type of game that punish you for making the slightest error. Now, hopefully, DAI won't be half as hard as DD on casual mode. But yeah, health regen would be really nice.

I see I wasn't the only one who got annoyed at Dragon's Dogma after a while. 
I seriously hope we can heal our characters with magic in DAI (which I think they said we could? Someone correct me on that, please), so this is just going to be a tedius task rather than fun. I play Bioware games for the story, not gameplay. I play other RPGs for the gameplay, because some of them have very weak storyline, imo *coughcough*Skyrim*coughcough*

[Fetunche]

No health regen isn't difficult or scary or intimidating its boring! I don't want DA to become a chore to play I want it to be fun like the other two games.

[Cimeas]

Just play on PC and use Console Commands to give yourself 1,000,000 attribute points and put them into constitution or whatever.

[Fetunche]

Playing on Pc is too easy.

[Ryzaki]

Zetheria Tabris wrote...

Genshie wrote...


Yeah and I don't see how 5 minutes would be a bad thing. You wouldn't be able to spam it but you will have access to it again eventually. And now you are just making the whole camp travel issue pop up if you do this. (Most people don't want to be making constant fields trips to their camps/bases to just heal up over and over)

There should be an option to make a makeshift camp in open areas where there are no enemies nearby. You should be able to heal and talk to your companions. Just like the camp in Origins, only you can camp anywhere safe.

Agreed if you clear out a dungeon or cave or whatever you should be able to make camp there.

[AlexJK]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

EXACTLY. 3-4 groups could kill you. 

Which means you may talk your way past one, sneak your way past another, use traps to disable another and then fight the last one without nearly as much worry. If, instead, you can fight each one individually and then get instant healing after each fight, why wouldn't you just fight, fight, FIGHT?

No health regen makes the player engage in the entire world holistically, looking at all the options and ramifications, rather than just stabbing their way through every problem that presents itself, like health-regen games encourage.

This, a thousand times this.

Modifié par AlexJK, 02 septembre 2013 - 03:52 .

[Herr Uhl]

Fetunche wrote...

Playing on Pc is too easy.

This is a new reason I haven't heard of before. Aren't the PC versions of DA harder in general? Or is it having an easier input system?

[The Elder King]

Fetunche wrote...

Playing on Pc is too easy.

.....What?

[Cimeas]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

I disagree about health regen meaning a game is hard.

Health regen does NOT know make combat harder or easy. What health regen will do is encourage a lot of backtracking especially i if timed missions are relatively rare,

Not sure where the idea of health regen being "easy" comes from since in practise, health regen tends to produce BETTER combat since the designer can work on the assumption that every combat, the players are at maximum health.

One way no-health regen is interesting is that "trash mobs" aka low level enemies can still be used to be a threat since even if an encounter with one bandit group can't kill you, no health regen might mean that 3-4 bandit groups COULD kill you.

EXACTLY. 3-4 groups could kill you.

Which means you may talk your way past one, sneak your way past another, use traps to disable another and then fight the last one without nearly as much worry. If, instead, you can fight each one individually and then get instant healing after each fight, why wouldn't you just fight, fight, FIGHT?

No health regen makes the player engage in the entire world holistically, looking at all the options and ramifications, rather than just stabbing their way through every problem that presents itself, like health-regen games encourage. 

1.)  Conversation skills are not even confirmed to be in the game, and judging by everything Bioware has EVER done, will only be used for very special circumstances, like at the beginning or end of a quest.  It is highly unlikely that you will be able to randomly 'persuade' or 'intimidate' an average group of mobs.

2.)  Sneaking past is impossible unless they build a fully functioning party stealth system, which would require both a party full of rogues and NPC AI (for companions) on an ungodly level never before seen in gaming.  (And/or ridiculous amounts of very dodgy 'cover')

3.) If you can kill enemies by traps alone the game is probably ridiculously unbalanced.   Rogue goes in, lays five traps, send in tank to pull mobs through traps, win, rinse, repeat.

4.) Combat should be fine. 

So actually your proposal is a bit ridiculous.  Combat is, and probably always will be, the main way of interacting with a Bioware world.  I wish it wasn't that way, and I hope that someday we can see an LA NOIRE style Bioware game where there might be like 2 or 3 hours without combat, and just talking and investigation, but the chances of that are slim at best.

But that's the way it is, and no health regen makes it a pain.