148 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

Ravensword wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

WHO CARES ABOUT LORE, WE ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF A DEMON INVASION

I thought we learn in DA:O that the end of the world does not bring people together.

If they complain, then they die via my grey-skinned Amazon's hands.

Grey-skinned Amazon, eh? 

Javik approves

[Beerfish]

I agree with Jason Pogo totally on this one. They had better do some of their best wrting to justify a Qunari or whatever you want to call them lead the inquistion. I wouldn't trust one more than I could throw one.

[Fredward]

-sigh- Yeah lets just pretend the writers are absolute morons. Who frequently attempt to eat ice cream with their forehead. I mean it's not like they created the world or anything. They totally need us to remind them to let stuff make sense. Silly, silly writers.

[Taleroth]

JasonPogo wrote...

no one would fallow an order led by a Qunari.

They'd sooner follow a Qunari than an elf. There were Qunari all over DAO and nobody cared.

The only reason anyone cared about Sten was the whole "murdered an entire family" incident.

[AmRMa]

Beerfish wrote...

I agree with Jason Pogo totally on this one. They had better do some of their best wrting to justify a Qunari or whatever you want to call them lead the inquistion. I wouldn't trust one more than I could throw one.

I agree, I also think a Qunari Inquisitor is a hard sell. I thought that a Elf or a Dwarf was pushing it but a Qunari is another matter. But I'm not interested in playing a Qunari so I'm not really curious how they are going to make it believable.

[Daerog]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

-sigh- Yeah lets just pretend the writers are absolute morons. Who frequently attempt to eat ice cream with their forehead. I mean it's not like they created the world or anything. They totally need us to remind them to let stuff make sense. Silly, silly writers.

Wouldn't be the first time something was introduced that contradicted what was already established, sometimes a story idea is redone over and over that some of the older ideas get in with newer ideas that clash.

Two things spring to mind, one is the contradicting accounts on the corruption of the big evil devil guy in Warcraft when the Burning Crusade came out and Luthien in Tolkien's Middle Earth who was both maia and elf when the ainur/valar/maia are not able to reproduce (just excuse it as Eru getting involved, sure).

It happens. Not sure if people screaming over the fence "Don't forget that mabari were introduced by Tevinter and are popular in Fereldan" helps any, but some can be concerned over their favorite lore points.

I personally want blight magic from The Calling talked about again, but the Qunari is a big faction and we know very, very little of it, so I am not too worried.

[MakutaDax]

LindsayLohan wrote...

JasonPogo wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

 OP... Read this...http://dragonage.wik...iki/Tal-Vashoth

Yeah that dose not change the fact that ALL of Thedas is still going to hate you if you are 7 feet tall and have horns.  The people of Thedas don't care if they are Qunari or Tal-Vashoth.  They don't even know the difference.

That sounds like a damn good roleplaying experience to me

And then consider the fact that your Qunari could also be a big 'ole mage to boot. Now that combination is going to REALLY spice things up. lol

[n7stormrunner]

I see no problems with it.. anyone questions you,you can rip their arms off.. or eat them if your hungry.

[Karach_Blade]

Fessek, rip his arms off >

[n7stormrunner]

Karach_Blade wrote...

Fessek, rip his arms off >

thank you, you have named my qunari

[Vit246]

I'm reasonably optimistic that the writers can make it plausible.

[yummysoap]

Remember how you could play a Blood Mage in Dragon Age 2 and it did absolutely nothing to alter the story, despite being an overwhelmingly relevant detail to the lore of the game and Hawke's character?

I am really quite worried about the Qunari option, and it's not as simple as "he's tal-vashoth". That doesn't stop him/her from being a great big giant with horns that represents an open enemy to Thedas and the Chantry (which was formed out of the original Inquisition). I get that any Qunari/Tal-vashoth/kossith would have just as much interest in closing a giant fade tear in the sky as any other race, but why would they take a name that has such a close history with the Chantry and the Andrastian religion? Why would the nations of Thedas (save Par Vollen, I suppose) ever ally themselves with such an outsider when the entire species has pretty much been at odds with all of the other major nations in Thedas? Why would Orlais, for example, be cool with a foreign enemy resolving the Mage/Templar conflict, when the Qunari don't have Templars or Chantries or Circles and no experience with the politics between these factions IN ADDITION to being associated with a foreign, heathen religion? And if it's simply a Kossith with the same voice as the male human and a few more "you are Qunari" dialogue flags, then at the end of the day the race and all the mystery that surrounds them is cheapened.

In order for a Qunari option to work it would need to be VASTLY different from the other options in order to be even remotely lore-friendly, and I just don't think that Bioware would expend that much effort into one of their backgrounds.

Modifié par yummysoap, 02 septembre 2013 - 07:45 .

[Eterna]

The fact you lead the inquisition would mean you're somewhat famous. Most people would know of you without even meeting you. If people hear that the leader of the inquisition is a Kossith who has been taking care of the veil tear I'm pretty sure they'd be more open to conversing and aiding you, regardless of race.

This is why the Dalish Warden was able to recruit armies for their cause. Their actions effectively made most people look past the fact they were an Elf.

Your argument can be applied to any of the Wardens various Origins come to think of it. 

Modifié par Eterna5, 02 septembre 2013 - 07:33 .

[yummysoap]

Eterna5 wrote...

The fact you lead the inquisition would mean you're somewhat famous. Most people would know of you without even meeting you. If people hear that the leader of the inquisition is a Kossith who has been taking care of the veil tear I'm pretty sure they'd be more open to conversing and aiding you, regardless of race.

This is why the Dalish Warden was able to recruit armies for their cause. Their actions effectively made most people look past the fact they were an Elf.

And also because humans and elves share a long history and a degree of familiarity (with elves as servants or maids in noble houses). The Dalish are considered a threat, but a known threat, and they're generally not dangerous unless approached. 

Dwarves too have maintained a harmonious relationship with humans throughout history through trade and arms (during blights), and while they're not Andrastian they're not viewed with nearly as much suspicion or disdain as the newcomer Qunari, who decided to greet Thedas with a war that nearly toppled some of its strongest nations, and, more recently, held Kirkwall under siege until Hawke saved the day.

Most crucially, though, Origins worked because the Wardens are, and are reputed to be, a multi-race order where humans, elves and dwarves have always risen together to defeat a common purpose. The Inquisition, on the other hand, disbanded to become the Seekers of the Andrastian Chantry. So why would a Qunari (or Tal-vashoth) take its name and logo (A GREAT BIG CHANTRY EYE WITH A TEMPLAR SWORD, FOR GOD'S SAKE) as its cause, and why would any other nation in Thedas allow it?

Modifié par yummysoap, 02 septembre 2013 - 07:49 .

[n7stormrunner]

yummysoap wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

The fact you lead the inquisition would mean you're somewhat famous. Most people would know of you without even meeting you. If people hear that the leader of the inquisition is a Kossith who has been taking care of the veil tear I'm pretty sure they'd be more open to conversing and aiding you, regardless of race.

This is why the Dalish Warden was able to recruit armies for their cause. Their actions effectively made most people look past the fact they were an Elf.

And also because humans and elves share a long history and a degree of familiarity (with elves as servants or maids in noble houses). The Dalish are considered a threat, but a known threat, and they're generally not dangerous unless approached. 

Dwarves too have maintained a harmonious relationship with humans throughout history through trade and arms (during blights), and while they're not Andrastian they're not viewed with nearly as much suspicion or disdain as the newcomer Qunari, who decided to greet Thedas with a war that nearly toppled some of its strongest nations, and, more recently, held Kirkwall under siege until Hawke saved the day.

Most crucially, though, Origins worked because the Wardens are, and are reputed to be, a multi-race order where humans, elves and dwarves have always risen together to defeat a common purpose. The Inquisition, on the other hand, disbanded to become the Seekers of the Andrastian Chantry. So why would a Qunari (or Tal-vashoth) take its name and it's logo (A GREAT BIG CHANTRY EYE WITH A TEMPLAR SWORD, FOR GOD'S SAKE) as its cause, and why would any other nation in Thedas allow it?

ether a. your reasonable even though their picking a fight, or b. you crush the skulls of those who question your right to do so. more likely c. a little of both

[Daerog]

yummysoap wrote...

Most crucially, though, Origins worked because the Wardens are, and are reputed to be, a multi-race order where humans, elves and dwarves have always risen together to defeat a common purpose. The Inquisition, on the other hand, disbanded to become the Seekers of the Andrastian Chantry. So why would a Qunari (or Tal-vashoth) take its name and logo (A GREAT BIG CHANTRY EYE WITH A TEMPLAR SWORD, FOR GOD'S SAKE) as its cause, and why would any other nation in Thedas allow it?

It is exactly because of the Inquisitions history that it is being taken up again. It was not about the Chantry (The symbols belonged to the Inquisition, not the Chantry, the symbols stayed with the Seekers and Templars) when it started, it was about trying to maintain order after the chaos that was after the First Blight. The Chantry brought it into itself as it was an independent order originally, but eventually the Chantry lost control, the world is in chaos once again. By bringing the Inquisition back, it tells those who know their history and legends that a force is rising to battle against that chaos, to bring stability back to the world, that there is hope.

A giant, horned creature can scare people, sure, but when the commoners see that creature fighting tooth and nail to fight back the chaos, then they will at least be thankful for the service if not the person doing it. Those in power will either ally with the Inquisition to increase their own power and standing with the people or they will be against it and alone, as I don't see a coalition of political powers against an order meant to bring stability, maybe some individual politicians, but not nations as a whole.

[Eterna]

yummysoap wrote...

And also because humans and elves share a long history and a degree of familiarity (with elves as servants or maids in noble houses). The Dalish are considered a threat, but a known threat, and they're generally not dangerous unless approached.

This is just silly and a double standard. The last major conflict with the Qunari was three centuries before DA:O. The Dalish to this day still skirmish with humans. 

If humans will listen to a Dalish elf  in a position of power who is essentially their last hope, then there is no reason they wouldn't do the same with a Qunari. 

Dwarves too have maintained a harmonious relationship with humans throughout history through trade and arms (during blights), and while they're not Andrastian they're not viewed with nearly as much suspicion or disdain as the newcomer Qunari, who decided to greet Thedas with a war that nearly toppled some of its strongest nations, and, more recently, held Kirkwall under siege until Hawke saved the day.

And yet, a castless Dwarf was able to crown a new king for Orzammar, lead Dwarven armies, and become a Paragon. Why? Because they held the position of Grey Warden. The problem here is that you're under valuing the rank and position that the inquisitor holds, and, more importantly, the actions and heroics the inquisitor will accomplish. 

Will racism be prevalent? Of course. But at the end of the day your heroics, how you behave, and your accmplishments will make people see past the fact that you are a Qunari. You will cease to be Qunari in the publics eye, you wll become the Inquisitor instead.  Much like the Dalish Elf stopped being an elf, and instead became a  Warden and their hero. 

Most crucially, though, Origins worked because the Wardens are, and are reputed to be, a multi-race order where humans, elves and dwarves have always risen together to defeat a common purpose.

The Inquisition is a reformed order with the same intent. 

The Inquisition, on the other hand, disbanded to become the Seekers of the Andrastian Chantry. So why would a Qunari (or Tal-vashoth) take its name and it's logo (A GREAT BIG CHANTRY EYE WITH A TEMPLAR SWORD, FOR GOD'S SAKE) as its cause, and why would any other nation in Thedas allow it?

It is perfectly plausable that a Kossith who does not follow the Qun could instead follow the Maker. And even if that wasn't the case, their is no evidence that the Inquisition is even religiously based. It is a new reformed organization and you decide its mandate.

And much like Gray Wardens, the nations of Thedas have no say who joins or not, especially when it is you who leads this group. 

Modifié par Eterna5, 02 septembre 2013 - 08:05 .

[In Exile]

DA:O handwaved the race of the Warden for the most part, even when blatant racism should have gotten in the way. Why would the game treat a qunari any different?

I hope Bioware creates a more reactive plot than DA:O. But if they don't, it isn't as if there isn't precedent for the handwaving, and the fanbase seemed OK with it. 

Modifié par In Exile, 02 septembre 2013 - 08:05 .

[Paul E Dangerously]

yummysoap wrote...

Remember how you could play a Blood Mage in Dragon Age 2 and it did absolutely nothing to alter the story, despite being an overwhelmingly relevant detail to the lore of the game and Hawke's character?

Being a mage in general was kinda goofy in DA2. It's a city full of Templars, yet nobody cares if you summon meteors from heaven to destroy your enemies. Or walk around in robes with a giant honking staff, since your armaments and armor are all class-locked and you can't say, wear leather armor and have a sword and pretend to be a mercenary.

[DarthSliver]

Sopa de Gato wrote...

yummysoap wrote...

Remember how you could play a Blood Mage in Dragon Age 2 and it did absolutely nothing to alter the story, despite being an overwhelmingly relevant detail to the lore of the game and Hawke's character?

Being a mage in general was kinda goofy in DA2. It's a city full of Templars, yet nobody cares if you summon meteors from heaven to destroy your enemies. Or walk around in robes with a giant honking staff, since your armaments and armor are all class-locked and you can't say, wear leather armor and have a sword and pretend to be a mercenary.

Blackmailing a Templar who had a mage Daughter and you being a mage, it works better than it logically should lol.

I think Qunari Inquisitor will do just fine.

[TheCreeper]

Bioware is clearly aware of the lore implications and it sounds like in some areas being Qunari is going to make things a good deal more difficult.

I suspect there's an element of "being the only trying to fix things." And later on "Commander of such a large and powerful force." that does reduce the xenophobia a bit, similar to the warden.

[yummysoap]

Eterna5 wrote...

yummysoap wrote...

And also because humans and elves share a long history and a degree of familiarity (with elves as servants or maids in noble houses). The Dalish are considered a threat, but a known threat, and they're generally not dangerous unless approached.

This is just silly and a double standard. The last major conflict with the Qunari was three centuries before DA:O. The Dalish to this day still skirmish with humans. 

If humans will listen to a Dalish elf  in a position of power who is essentially their last hope, then there is no reason they wouldn't do the same with a Qunari.

The Dalish elves are nomadic and for the most part have kept to themselves, as they have for a really, really long time in Thedas. They don't hold cities under siege or launch full-scale invasions. The Qunari are a relatively new power that almost brought several nations of Thedas to its knees in its introduction, and the Codex bills them as the least understood civilization in Thedas. Humans and elves have shared space and history since the beginning of written human history itself. It makes sense that a Dalish Warden could command respect despite his origins.

Eterna5 wrote...
And yet, a castless Dwarf was able to crown a new king for Orzammar, lead Dwarven armies, and become a Paragon. Why? Because they held the position of Grey Warden. The problem here is that you're under valuing the rank and position that the inquisitor holds, and, more importantly, the actions and heroics the inquisitor will accomplish.

One of the major things they've been emphasising is that the player character defines the importance of his order, as opposed to being bestowed with a respectful title like Grey Warden. I understand that through player actions a Qunari could gain respect, but I just don't see how one could ever be trusted to head an organisation that deals with matters that are so closely entwined with the circle and the chantry.

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...
It is exactly because of the Inquisitions history that it is being taken up again. It was not about the Chantry (The symbols belonged to the Inquisition, not the Chantry, the symbols stayed with the Seekers and Templars) when it started, it was about trying to maintain order after the chaos that was after the First Blight. The Chantry brought it into itself as it was an independent order originally, but eventually the Chantry lost control, the world is in chaos once again. By bringing the Inquisition back, it tells those who know their history and legends that a force is rising to battle against that chaos, to bring stability back to the world, that there is hope.

I understand all that. Really, I do. But that doesn't really change something like the Mage/Templar war being deeply entwined in circle and chantry politics, and thus not something that country/faction leaders are likely to let a representative of a race that follows a completely different doctrine and has a reputation of assimilating lesser cultures get too close to.

Look, I should be clear. I really, really want the Qunari inquisitor to work, and I'm not saying that it can't, but to me it would require a considerable amount of effort, and going by Bioware's track record I'm just not sure they would be willing to front the development time it would take to make a Kossith/Qunari background justifiable. Hopefully I will be proven wrong.

Modifié par yummysoap, 02 septembre 2013 - 09:26 .