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[Fast Jimmy]

Howdy do, BSN.



We've seen a LOT about DA:I revealed in the past month, especially in this last weekend. I'd say at this long, there is honestly so much information floating around that no one person truly has a grip on all the new developments that have come out for date. While some of them raise some questions of even concerns, most of it works to make many different players and fans VERY excited about the game.

That being said... Bioware still doesn't have a sterling name in the industry and across the Internet. There are still many haters out there, haters who still aren't impressed, despite all of the news that has come out that make DA:I sound lie a fantastic game if it can live up to its goals and promises.

So I began to think - what would be the Silver Bullet to silence the detractors? That would make it impossible for people to point at biwoare and say "they're doing it wrong" or "they need to look at X company - THEY'RE the ones doing it right."

So I have come up with a list of three things. If these three things could be done, coupled with the news we've already heard, it would work to leave Bioware's reputation back to its sterling quality and also prove that they are still one of the most dominant RPG developers in the industry.

1) Come out and state there will be zero MP.

While many fans great enjoy MP, including ME3's experience with it, it is still makes Bioware an easy target for accusations of both "hack-n-slash gameplay" as well as opening the door to microtransactions.

While the merits of both of these, and MP in general, can be stated and argued, outright taking it off the table will send a message that will shut the mouths of many critics who see it as a direct route to some of the problems ME3 had.

2) No Paid D1DLC

Yes, DLC as a model is totally valid, Bioware deserves to be paid for their effort and there is nothing that forces players to buy or play D1DLC, nor does it mean it was inherently content cut from the main game... but that will stop no one from stating it is fact. The best way to stop these types of conversations and accusations? Make the D1DLC free with new copies. This is how DA:O did it, when the game was delayed nine months and allowed them to finish the content for Shale. Something tells me that with the extra year, Bioware can finish up a character who was going to be cut and make that as a DLC and give it to fans for free. It would be a symbolic gesture that would go a long way to avoiding the mud slinging and instant comparisons to other recent Bioware games.

3) Some level of mod support

Yes, a modkit is off the table. It anyone has been following this conversation over the past year, this comes as no surprise. All of the third party tool obstacles that existed with DA2 are still in play, as well as the added complications of frostbite and its inherent complexity that makes modding incredibly difficult. BUT... one can support modding without directly supplying a modkit.

For instance, removing a competitive MP aspect as mentioned above would remove any advantage of using mods, allowing players who engage and use them to avoid being banned, like what was seen in Battlefield 3, a game that also used Frostbite. Also, providing support on the forums as well as some said instructions to help modders get a head start could be a big help starting out and could be seen as encouraging the community, despite not being able to provide the tools. After all, if Bioware is not providing a toolkit solely to "sell more DLC," wouldn't being able to point to step-by-step instructions provided by Bioware to begin modding be a good way to prove otherwise?


These are all (VERY) tall orders, I realize. And it may even seem greedy for me to ask, since Bioware has given so much in terms of content and features beyond what many had expected for the game.

BUT if Bioware were to provide these concessions, it would not only delight fans, but it would be able to completely and irrevocably shut down 99% of the criticism and defacement that is likely to show up in full force if any of the above turns out not to be true.   

[Maria Caliban]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

So I began to think - what would be the Silver Bullet to silence the detractors?

There isn't one.

1) Come out and state there will be zero MP.

2) No Paid D1DLC

3) Some level of mod support


BUT if Bioware were to provide these concessions, it would not only delight fans, but it would be able to completely and irrevocably shut down 99% of the criticism and defacement that is likely to show up in full force if any of the above turns out not to be true.   

How would these stop people criticizing the lack of health regen? Or bisexual companions? Or the presence of a dodge? Or the presence of the harpoon? Or the existence of 'yet another' save the world plot? Or the fact that some missions will let you save them both... but this is apparently based on player skill?

And no, 'you can always mod it' does not keep people from complaining.

[DarkSpider88]

Even multi-player is fine as long as it no way affects the single player experience. How I want to play ME3 but don't wont to spend hours in multi-player for the galactic readiness bs.

like Tomb Raider, has multi-player an I have never bothered to try it out. I could just ignore its existence.

Modifié par DarkSpider88, 02 septembre 2013 - 03:03 .

[AlexJK]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

So I have come up with a list of three things. If these three things could be done, coupled with the news we've already heard, it would work to leave Bioware's reputation back to its sterling quality and also prove that they are still one of the most dominant RPG developers in the industry.

BW could announce that there's no MP, no D1DLC, and a full toolkit, and then send all the staff on holiday for a year and just release the game in whatever state it's in now, with utterly disastrous results - but I don't think that's quite what you meant somehow.

No matter what they announce, some people will moan.

Proof is in the pudding, to be honest, and so far the pudding looks goooooood.

Modifié par AlexJK, 02 septembre 2013 - 03:02 .

[Beerfish]

Fast Jimmy wrote...


1) Come out and state there will be zero MP.

While many fans great enjoy MP, including ME3's experience with it, it is still makes Bioware an easy target for accusations of both "hack-n-slash gameplay" as well as opening the door to microtransactions.

While the merits of both of these, and MP in general, can be stated and argued, outright taking it off the table will send a message that will shut the mouths of many critics who see it as a direct route to some of the problems ME3 had.

So they should remove mp because a bunch of bone heads accused it of causing me3's ills? 

[Fast Jimmy]

How would these stop people criticizing the lack of health regen? Or bisexual companions? Or the presence of a dodge? Or the presence of the harpoon? Or the existence of 'yet another' save the world plot? Or the fact that some missions will let you save them both... but this is apparently based on player skill?

And no, 'you can always mod it' does not keep people from complaining.

You are mistaking BSN complainers from the rest of the Internet.

The rest of the Internet years the word "Bioware" and begins throwing accusations of greed, selling out, micro-transactions and shameless DLC. If all of these were shut down, then it would stem huge amounts of the bad name Bioware has across the other segments of the gaming community.

Complaints about social agendas or gameplay decisions are small scale in comparison to these general impressions about "EAWare."

[Fast Jimmy]

AlexJK wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

So I have come up with a list of three things. If these three things could be done, coupled with the news we've already heard, it would work to leave Bioware's reputation back to its sterling quality and also prove that they are still one of the most dominant RPG developers in the industry.

BW could announce that there's no MP, no D1DLC, and a full toolkit, and then send all the staff on holiday for a year and just release the game in whatever state it's in now, with utterly disastrous results - but I don't think that's quite what you meant somehow.

No matter what they announce, some people will moan.

Proof is in the pudding, to be honest, and so far the pudding looks goooooood.

Some people will moan, yes. That's not what I'm saying.

I'm talking about the "go-to" complaints about Bioware these days - if you need any examples, do a Google search for any of the new reveals, find an article that is not the BSN, and look at the comments sections. The insults about greed and anti-consumer policies are how large segments of the gaming community perceive Bioware. My above suggestions would diffuse these types of detractors. 

[Fast Jimmy]

Beerfish wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...


1) Come out and state there will be zero MP. 

While many fans great enjoy MP, including ME3's experience with it, it is still makes Bioware an easy target for accusations of both "hack-n-slash gameplay" as well as opening the door to microtransactions. 

While the merits of both of these, and MP in general, can be stated and argued, outright taking it off the table will send a message that will shut the mouths of many critics who see it as a direct route to some of the problems ME3 had.

So they should remove mp because a bunch of bone heads accused it of causing me3's ills?  

Yes. They should. 

Cut off the limb before it becomes rotted and kills the whole body.  

[AlexJK]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

The insults about greed and anti-consumer policies are how large segments of the gaming community perceive Bioware. My above suggestions would diffuse these types of detractors. 

I don't believe that any announcement short of "we are splitting from EA, effective immediately" would silence those detractors.

[Fast Jimmy]

AlexJK wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

The insults about greed and anti-consumer policies are how large segments of the gaming community perceive Bioware. My above suggestions would diffuse these types of detractors. 

I don't believe that any announcement short of "we are splitting from EA, effective immediately" would silence those detractors.

Maybe so. But does that mean it is not worth even trying?

[LPPrince]

I don't think any of those things are silver bullets.

I don't think Bioware could ever have a silver bullet really, besides the game itself.

The game once completed has to prove people wrong. Because nothing you hear beforehand matters if the game turns out to be less than what it could've been.

[Tinu]

The only thing I'm constantly seeing (and is annoying me like hell) is what the three colors will stand for at the end of the game.

[DarkSpider88]

AlexJK wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

The insults about greed and anti-consumer policies are how large segments of the gaming community perceive Bioware. My above suggestions would diffuse these types of detractors. 

I don't believe that any announcement short of "we are splitting from EA, effective immediately" would silence those detractors.

you know maybe EA has learned a lesson by now, they did give the DA team more time to develop the game. While Bioware made several great games without EA's assets, it is probably easier to so.

(runs and hides behind a rock)

[Tinu]

The game has to sell well, the reviews should be good and most of the fans should be content with it. That's all that really matters. I don't want Bioware to care about the haterz.

[Leanansidhe]

God, I wish people would just effing stop.

There's a certain segment of this "community" that is bound and determined to ruin everything for everyone, and it's getting really ridiculous.

If you don't want to play the game, don't, but stop trying to convince all of us who are really excited that we're somehow stupid for being so.

I like multiplayer.  I have a lot of friends I play online with, and they're all really excited about this game and the possibility of MP.  I have one who was never interested in the series at all, but now he's playing through Origins and DA2, so he'll be ready to play MP with us when DA:I comes out.

I like Day 1 DLC.  It makes sense from a business standpoint, and it adds things to the game that we wouldn't otherwise get.  Unless you want MORE of the BioWare folks getting laid off from their jobs?  Haven't we had enough lay offs lately?  Or, are you not going to be happy until everyone gets laid off and the company goes under?  (But then, I often feel this is the case with a lot of you.)

You do realize that most of the copies of the game are sold on consoles, right?  PC is a very small percentage of actual sales.  Mod support does absolutely nothing for the console people, so why would BioWare spend all that time, and all that money for something that an even smaller number of people will ever use?  I play on PC, and the only mod I use is the camp chest for Origins that Craig Graff, a BioWare employee, made.  I won't use anything else, because most often, they're terribly made, and they screw up your game.  Very few of my friends who play on PC use mods.  They know they're out there, and they won't use them, because 99% of the time, they're horrible.

You don't have to listen to me, though,  I'm just one of those "stupid" people who preferred DA2 to
Origins.  And I think ME3 is the best game BioWare has ever made.

DA:I looks to surpass it, though, and the year long wait is going to be agonizing.  But, I'll use that time to convince more of my friends to give Dragon Age a try, now that they'll probably be able to play together.

[EnoughLetters]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

1) Come out and state there will be zero MP. 

While many fans great enjoy MP, including ME3's experience with it, it is still makes Bioware an easy target for accusations of both "hack-n-slash gameplay" as well as opening the door to microtransactions.

While the merits of both of these, and MP in general, can be stated and argued, outright taking it off the table will send a message that will shut the mouths of many critics who see it as a direct route to some of the problems ME3 had.

2) No Paid D1DLC

Yes, DLC as a model is totally valid, Bioware deserves to be paid for their effort and there is nothing that forces players to buy or play D1DLC, nor does it mean it was inherently content cut from the main game... but that will stop no one from stating it is fact. The best way to stop these types of conversations and accusations? Make the D1DLC free with new copies. This is how DA:O did it, when the game was delayed nine months and allowed them to finish the content for Shale. Something tells me that with the extra year, Bioware can finish up a character who was going to be cut and make that as a DLC and give it to fans for free. It would be a symbolic gesture that would go a long way to avoiding the mud slinging and instant comparisons to other recent Bioware games.

3) Some level of mod support

Yes, a modkit is off the table. It anyone has been following this conversation over the past year, this comes as no surprise. All of the third party tool obstacles that existed with DA2 are still in play, as well as the added complications of frostbite and its inherent complexity that makes modding incredibly difficult. BUT... one can support modding without directly supplying a modkit.

For instance, removing a competitive MP aspect as mentioned above would remove any advantage of using mods, allowing players who engage and use them to avoid being banned, like what was seen in Battlefield 3, a game that also used Frostbite. Also, providing support on the forums as well as some said instructions to help modders get a head start could be a big help starting out and could be seen as encouraging the community, despite not being able to provide the tools. After all, if Bioware is not providing a toolkit solely to "sell more DLC," wouldn't being able to point to step-by-step instructions provided by Bioware to begin modding be a good way to prove otherwise?

My thoughts:

1.) MP = It would be a shame to remove something some fans enjoy (I among them)  just to appease haters who might not even touch the game. Much of the ME3 hate, from what I remembered, came off the galactic readiness idea and how you needed MP to improve SP's outcome. I'd rather they simply adopt a "multiplayer does not affect singleplayer in any way" attitude, and do something to indicate that MP was an afterthought, rather than a primary goal. I'm not sure how they'd have to go about this.

2.) D1DLC = This is probably what bothers the most people, or at least, is the most common complaint against them that I see elsewhere. I recall hearing something of a potential price-raise from the traditional $60 for the game, and slapping an additional purchase on that could paint them as the bad guy. If this alleged price increase is true, then they really have to figure out how to tackle this, else this view of them will likely be set in stone. I agree with the free DLC idea. A free companion DLC coupled with some sort of extra content painted as a "post-development update" could help. After those initial ones, they could resume the purchase-and-play model. 

3.) MODDING =  Despite being a user of mods, I'm not quite sure how the process works. I suppose having several developers walk others through the process would be beneficial to their image and the players themselves, though I'm not sure how far it would go to avert criticisms. The people who seem to complain about this the most also seem to be the ones who refuse to understand why this would be difficult for them to do, and would ignore any attempts at appeasement short of a modkit.

I certainly don't envy their position at the moment. I agree that they should try something, but focus on the game itself should be foremost. It will be the only thing they'll really have to fall back on in the end.

Modifié par EnoughLetters, 02 septembre 2013 - 04:04 .

[Noviere]

The people who hate Bioware right now don't want to have their opinions changed. I think the only way to win them over is to release an amazing game.

[Thunderfox]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

So I began to think - what would be the Silver Bullet to silence the detractors?

There isn't one.
.

[Herr Uhl]

There is no way. They are not only blaming bioware but also EA at large. I've seen several threads where people are saying that "I got burned by DA2 and Sim City, I'll wait for a year or two before trying the game". Granted, this is hyperbole, but they won't change their tune until people they know have played the game, considering how many "Brace yourself for the 11/10 scores this will undeservedly get" posts as well.

But as is, threads tend to devolve into hating on EA and Bioware and circlejerking about Witcher 3.

Edit: And Jimmy, you had your "there will be no point and click" conspiracy. Imagine what people that only hear about the game every odd month or so can cook up.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 02 septembre 2013 - 03:51 .

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Release a CGI trailer, people always seem to eat them up for some reason.

[Giubba]

Herr Uhl wrote...

There is no way. They are not only blaming bioware but also EA at large. I've seen several threads where people are saying that "I got burned by DA2 and Sim City, I'll wait for a year or two before trying the game". Granted, this is hyperbole, but they won't change their tune until people they know have played the game, considering how many "Brace yourself for the 11/10 scores this will undeservedly get" posts as well.

But as is, threads tend to devolve into hating on EA and Bioware and circlejerking about Witcher 3.

Edit: And Jimmy, you had your "there will be no point and click" conspiracy. Imagine what people that only hear about the game every odd month or so can cook up.

Well said .

[crimzontearz]

1 EA won't allow it
2 EA won't allow it
3 bioware already said no as far as I know (and EA will likely not allow it)

Next?

[Herr Uhl]

crimzontearz wrote...

1 EA won't allow it
2 EA won't allow it
3 bioware already said no as far as I know (and EA will likely not allow it)

Next?

What if they announced NG+?

[EnoughLetters]

Herr Uhl wrote...

What if they announced NG+?

crimzontearz wrote...

EA won't allow it

Sorry, too tempted not to

Modifié par EnoughLetters, 02 septembre 2013 - 04:10 .