127 réponses à ce sujet

[Fast Jimmy]

Angrywolves wrote...

Ok fast jimmy I apologise .
What support did you have in mind?

Well, as discussed in the OP, Bioware can devote resources and guides online, possibly through the BSN, to help get a jump start on the very basics of getting modding started. A large bulk of work done in modding without a modkit is going through each file and dissecting it to try and find out where modifications need to be made. If this direction and advice could be given right from the get to, it could help jump start the overall process.

In addition (also mentioned in the OP), leaving out any competitive MP would help with modding, by virtue of the fact that modding the game will not be stigmatized. Modern Warfare 3, the first game made with Frostbite 2, was declared unmoddable by the DICE group. When some modders were able to make a new texture pack, they were all banned, citing that the mods gave the players an unfair advantage. A fair enough response by some measure - after all, a mod could be made to automatically generate headshots or do 10X more damage with your average weapon, etc. By keeping the MP component either out of the game or make it so that players are not competing against each other, mods themselves can avoid being stigmatized.

Lastly (not mentioned in the OP), the way Bioware sets files up themsves can help modding efforts. For instance, in DA2, all dialogue between the NPC and the PC was one, continuous file for each dialogue choice. If, instead, each line or segment of Dialgoue was broken up, it would allow easy modification and altering of files. This is a small example, but it shows that there are ways Bioware can generate and set up the data in the game to make it easier to dissect and modify, which ultimately makes it easier for the modding community to get in the guts of the system instead of having to work around limitations in thengame's file makeup. 

[Fast Jimmy]

The point remains. The best ending was impossible to get without multiplayer and the ME3 team spent months denying it until Chris Priestly closed the thread and saying "We did'nt lie".

And this is precisely what I mean.

There is old baggage, old hatchets and old grudges for Bioware's mistakes. I'm not making judgment calls on whether they are valid or not here - if you know me or have read my posts, you'd know where I stand - but I will say it brings down the perception of Bioware by mere association.

MP in DA:I will bring comparisons with MP in ME3, and its ties to the SP game and how it influenced the endings and, ultimately, the ME3 endings themselves. Whether DA:I's MP is completely different than ME3's or not will not prevent these associations from happening... people will still say "MP in a Bioware game? It's ME3 all over again..."

Same goes for Paid Day One DLC. It has a negative connotation that is one of the reasons EA is widely railed against in the gaming industry. Free D1DLC, like Shale, was viewed as a great move that made fans feel they were getting the game the developers had intended, while Paid D1DLC can make fans feel they have to pay extra to get the full game. Regardless of the merits, using a Free D1C model like in DA:O and ME2 would do more to shake off these stigmas of "evil EA controlling Bioware" or whatever leftover hatred exists from the ME3/DA2/TOR mantra Brotarian was quoting on the last page.



If Bioware distances themselves from MP and Paid D1DLC, it gives them distance from their past mistakes. If they make an effort to reach out to the modding community despite not having a toolkit, it makes them look like they are on somewhat even level with their other competitors. And if they make a stellar game with tons of character control, great story and narrative choices (like it seems they are shooting for with all the recent reveals), then that could all work together to be a silver bullet in making DA:I a huge success and quieting many of Bioware's critics.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 03 septembre 2013 - 01:12 .

[Plaintiff]

I don't see why Bioware should care at all about the froth-mouthed ramblings of a few rabid twits.

[cjones91]

Plaintiff wrote...

I don't see why Bioware should care at all about the froth-mouthed ramblings of a few rabid twits.

Because of bad word of mouth?You'd be surprised how hundreds of angry customers can effect your sales once they start telling people not to buy from you

Modifié par cjones91, 03 septembre 2013 - 01:17 .

[Daralii]

Plaintiff wrote...

I don't see why Bioware should care at all about the froth-mouthed ramblings of a few rabid twits.

The people that tried to get the FTC involved over ME3's ending are obviously their core demographic.

[cjones91]

Daralii wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I don't see why Bioware should care at all about the froth-mouthed ramblings of a few rabid twits.

The people that tried to get the FTC involved over ME3's ending are obviously their core demographic.

To fair there was misleading marketing that could be interpreted as being lies.The Better Business Bureou even said ME3 was falsely marketed and misleading.

[Daralii]

cjones91 wrote...

Daralii wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I don't see why Bioware should care at all about the froth-mouthed ramblings of a few rabid twits.

The people that tried to get the FTC involved over ME3's ending are obviously their core demographic.

To fair there was misleading marketing that could be interpreted as being lies.The Better Business Bureou even said ME3 was falsely marketed and misleading.

The BBB is also a scam, and if dev comments count as false marketing now Peter Molyneux should be in jail.

[Plaintiff]

cjones91 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I don't see why Bioware should care at all about the froth-mouthed ramblings of a few rabid twits.

Because of bad word of mouth?You'd be surprised how hundreds of angry customers can effect your sales once they start telling people not to buy from you

I think you'd be just as surprised by how effective word-of-mouth often isn't.

Despite their popularity, videogames and the videogame industry are still not taken seriously by the vast majority of people, barring the individuals who blame the entire medium for all of society's problems.

The people complaining about ME3 or DA2 or SW:TOR in the dark recesses of the internet aren't going to be taken seriously because gaming isn't taken seriously. Hell, the vast majority of people who do buy games are not self-labelled "hardcore" gamers, and they don't care what "hardcore" gamers have to say. They'll buy what looks cool, and they'll enjoy it regardless of how many "old-school" fans shriek about how it sucks.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Now is the time for bioware to put up or shut up, and their future could very well ride on this game living up to expectations.

So it might be best to keep those expectations low for now, and have DAI be the sleeping giant that saves them from their reputation.

[cjones91]

Plaintiff wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I don't see why Bioware should care at all about the froth-mouthed ramblings of a few rabid twits.

Because of bad word of mouth?You'd be surprised how hundreds of angry customers can effect your sales once they start telling people not to buy from you

I think you'd be just as surprised by how effective word-of-mouth often isn't.

Despite their popularity, videogames and the videogame industry are still not taken seriously by the vast majority of people, barring the individuals who blame the entire medium for all of society's problems.

The people complaining about ME3 or DA2 or SW:TOR in the dark recesses of the internet aren't going to be taken seriously because gaming isn't taken seriously. Hell, the vast majority of people who do buy games are not self-labelled "hardcore" gamers, and they don't care what "hardcore" gamers have to say. They'll buy what looks cool, and they'll enjoy it regardless of how many "old-school" fans shriek about how it sucks.

If that was the case then Bioware would'nt have experienced two major PR flops,Microsoft would'nt have changed the Xbone,and EA would'nt be cleaning up their act.You can disagree but people who are vocal can make or break a industry.

[cjones91]

Daralii wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Daralii wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I don't see why Bioware should care at all about the froth-mouthed ramblings of a few rabid twits.

The people that tried to get the FTC involved over ME3's ending are obviously their core demographic.

To fair there was misleading marketing that could be interpreted as being lies.The Better Business Bureou even said ME3 was falsely marketed and misleading.

The BBB is also a scam, and if dev comments count as false marketing now Peter Molyneux should be in jail.

PM may promise alot but he does'nt intentionally lie,the ME3 team said things that were falsehoods even after the game hit the shelves.Gearbox has several lawsuits filed against so it's pretty bad to lie about your product regardless if people like it or not.

[Paul E Dangerously]

No multiplayer would be nice. It just doesn't fit Dragon Age, and if people remember correctly ME3's MP mode was farmed out to a different studio. We've heard nothing of that here, and Bioware's attentions are best left on making the best SP game possible. Origins did just fine without any sort of MP, why? Because it was a damn good game, and word spreads.

Mod support also does nothing for four of the five platforms DAI will be released on. Same as above, concentrate on making the best game possible first.

The best thing Bioware can do to silence critics is just make a good game. They've admittedly tried expanding to other fanbases with multiplayer and a really, really heavy push toward the LGBT community and it hasn't necessarily worked. Most of all give us likable characters and a solid plot, areas DA2 arguably failed in (though I did like Varric, Sebastian, and Act 2).

[Thomas Andresen]

Plaintiff wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I don't see why Bioware should care at all about the froth-mouthed ramblings of a few rabid twits.

Because of bad word of mouth?You'd be surprised how hundreds of angry customers can effect your sales once they start telling people not to buy from you

I think you'd be just as surprised by how effective word-of-mouth often isn't.

Despite their popularity, videogames and the videogame industry are still not taken seriously by the vast majority of people, barring the individuals who blame the entire medium for all of society's problems.

The people complaining about ME3 or DA2 or SW:TOR in the dark recesses of the internet aren't going to be taken seriously because gaming isn't taken seriously. Hell, the vast majority of people who do buy games are not self-labelled "hardcore" gamers, and they don't care what "hardcore" gamers have to say. They'll buy what looks cool, and they'll enjoy it regardless of how many "old-school" fans shriek about how it sucks.

I'd say, if anything, the "froth-mouthed ramblings" only makes the "serious"/"hardcore" gaming community look worse, in the eyes of the general public.

If you want people to respect your favourite hobby, you'd better start acting civilized about it. The proverbial ****storm that's been whipped up in the wake of DA2 and ME3 is anything but civilized(with the exception of the child's play initiative). Being uncivilized and aggressive doesn't make people listen to you, never mind respect. The only people who will listen are those who already agree.

[cjones91]

Morocco Mole wrote...

I think Bioware could stand to hire actual competent people in the PR department too. They were terrible during the DA2 and ME3 controversies.

Agreed,I was put off by their PR blunders and Bioware kept making things worse by passive agressively attacking their own customers,the gaming media did'nt help matters either and my faith in one was gone while the other is slowly returning.

[Thomas Andresen]

cjones91 wrote...

Daralii wrote...

The BBB is also a scam, and if dev comments count as false marketing now Peter Molyneux should be in jail.

PM may promise alot but he does'nt intentionally lie,the ME3 team said things that were falsehoods even after the game hit the shelves.Gearbox has several lawsuits filed against so it's pretty bad to lie about your product regardless if people like it or not.

Only your perspective exist, right?

[Han Shot First]

I honestly don't think there is anything Bioware could do to silence its most vocal critics.

Bashing of the company (and/or EA) has sort of taking on a life of its own at this point, and in some corners of the internet people think it is the cool thing to do. That isn't to say that the some of the criticism hasn't been legitimate, just that there are a lot of people out there who are going to bash the company no matter what it does.

[cjones91]

Thomas Andresen wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I don't see why Bioware should care at all about the froth-mouthed ramblings of a few rabid twits.

Because of bad word of mouth?You'd be surprised how hundreds of angry customers can effect your sales once they start telling people not to buy from you

I think you'd be just as surprised by how effective word-of-mouth often isn't.

Despite their popularity, videogames and the videogame industry are still not taken seriously by the vast majority of people, barring the individuals who blame the entire medium for all of society's problems.

The people complaining about ME3 or DA2 or SW:TOR in the dark recesses of the internet aren't going to be taken seriously because gaming isn't taken seriously. Hell, the vast majority of people who do buy games are not self-labelled "hardcore" gamers, and they don't care what "hardcore" gamers have to say. They'll buy what looks cool, and they'll enjoy it regardless of how many "old-school" fans shriek about how it sucks.

I'd say, if anything, the "froth-mouthed ramblings" only makes the "serious"/"hardcore" gaming community look worse, in the eyes of the general public.

If you want people to respect your favourite hobby, you'd better start acting civilized about it. The proverbial ****storm that's been whipped up in the wake of DA2 and ME3 is anything but civilized(with the exception of the child's play initiative). Being uncivilized and aggressive doesn't make people listen to you, never mind respect. The only people who will listen are those who already agree.

The general public would'nt care either way.It was the same during the eras of rap music and hardcore rock music,the general public made those a scapegoat and anyone who listened to those music genres.

[Thomas Andresen]

cjones91 wrote...

Thomas Andresen wrote...

I'd say, if anything, the "froth-mouthed ramblings" only makes the "serious"/"hardcore" gaming community look worse, in the eyes of the general public.

If you want people to respect your favourite hobby, you'd better start acting civilized about it. The proverbial ****storm that's been whipped up in the wake of DA2 and ME3 is anything but civilized(with the exception of the child's play initiative). Being uncivilized and aggressive doesn't make people listen to you, never mind respect. The only people who will listen are those who already agree.

The general public would'nt care either way.It was the same during the eras of rap music and hardcore rock music,the general public made those a scapegoat and anyone who listened to those music genres.

If that's what you think, what's the point? Other than pouring vitriol all over the forums.

[cjones91]

Thomas Andresen wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Daralii wrote...

The BBB is also a scam, and if dev comments count as false marketing now Peter Molyneux should be in jail.

PM may promise alot but he does'nt intentionally lie,the ME3 team said things that were falsehoods even after the game hit the shelves.Gearbox has several lawsuits filed against so it's pretty bad to lie about your product regardless if people like it or not.

Only your perspective exist, right?

So you are okay with businesses selling their products based on outright lies?If you are going to defend that behaviour then it's no wonder the game industry is getting away with things that no other industry would get away with.

[Maconbar]

Maybe they could do some cross marketing with the Silver Bullet.

[cjones91]

Thomas Andresen wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Thomas Andresen wrote...

I'd say, if anything, the "froth-mouthed ramblings" only makes the "serious"/"hardcore" gaming community look worse, in the eyes of the general public.

If you want people to respect your favourite hobby, you'd better start acting civilized about it. The proverbial ****storm that's been whipped up in the wake of DA2 and ME3 is anything but civilized(with the exception of the child's play initiative). Being uncivilized and aggressive doesn't make people listen to you, never mind respect. The only people who will listen are those who already agree.

The general public would'nt care either way.It was the same during the eras of rap music and hardcore rock music,the general public made those a scapegoat and anyone who listened to those music genres.

If that's what you think, what's the point? Other than pouring vitriol all over the forums.

The point is it's better to be vocal than to remain silent out of fear that your complaints would lose the approval of others.

[Thomas Andresen]

cjones91 wrote...

Thomas Andresen wrote...

Only your perspective exist, right?

So you are okay with businesses selling their products based on outright lies?If you are going to defend that behaviour then it's no wonder the game industry is getting away with things that no other industry would get away with.

The point is, I never heard a thing during the marketing that I later thought even remotely qualified as a lie. Not even when people were using quotes as basis for their arguments, could I see how those were lies.

When you read between the lines and extrapolate things that were never meant in the first place, that's your own fault.


(For the record, the so-called "Final Choice" in ME3 was never the penultimate choice. It was just one choice, out of many, that incidentally were placed at the end of the game.)

Edit:

cjones91 wrote...
The point is it's better to be vocal than to remain silent out of fear that your complaints would lose the approval of others.

Not when there's no good reason be "vocal" in the first place.

Modifié par Thomas Andresen, 03 septembre 2013 - 02:11 .