333 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

jtav wrote...

It's a matter of theme. Remember Sovereign? "You develop along the paths we desire." Reaper tech is presented as something that stifles the innovative spirit of organics, even as it broadens the minds of synthetics. You want to be free? Well, you're going to have to be free of everything
.

The Reapers stifle organics, not their technology

[Iakus]

jtav wrote...

It's a matter of theme. Remember Sovereign? "You develop along the paths we desire." Reaper tech is presented as something that stifles the innovative spirit of organics, even as it broadens the minds of synthetics. You want to be free? Well, you're going to have to be free of everything.

But EDI and the geth were not Reaper tech.  EDI was made by humans.  The geth were created by quarians.  That they were later augmented by Reaper technology does not remove teh fact that they were sentient beings before reciviing such upgrades.

[KaiserShep]

You don't have to be "free" of everything. The citadel is rebuilt, and so are the relays. Nuts to the reapers.

[MegaSovereign]

jtav wrote...

It's a matter of theme. Remember Sovereign? "You develop along the paths we desire." Reaper tech is presented as something that stifles the innovative spirit of organics, even as it broadens the minds of synthetics. You want to be free? Well, you're going to have to be free of everything.

Reapers were created by a synthetic who was created by organics who developed on their own pace. 

What you're basically implying is that post-destroy organics will magically become more innovative, when in reality they're probably going repair and or borrow the concept of the mass relays to re-install the galactic system that was put in place by the Reapers.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

jtav wrote...

It's a matter of theme. Remember Sovereign? "You develop along the paths we desire." Reaper tech is presented as something that stifles the innovative spirit of organics, even as it broadens the minds of synthetics. You want to be free? Well, you're going to have to be free of everything.

It doesn't stifle the innovative spirit at all. With the Reapers dead, it really can do nothing but influence and inspire organics. We have all of this hyper-advanced technology all over the galaxy now, and there are no more Reapers to indoctrinate anyone. This is material that is ripe for the plundering and study. And they can learn to grow with the technology, and they can grow beyond it. That's what will happen in Destroy.

It's absolute freedom. Their technology opens new doors for us and allows to expand with it and advance past it. Really, take a look at your logic. If it truly applied, then why did we take Prothean technology and advance with it? Wouldn't it have stifled our innovative spirit?

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 02 septembre 2013 - 11:49 .

[KaiserShep]

There's no way to develop tech further without some influence deriving from the technology the reapers left behind. Any chance to completely operate in complete independence of the relays or citadel was extinguished eons ago.

That said, there's no reason to believe that innovation can't render them obsolete. 

Modifié par KaiserShep, 02 septembre 2013 - 11:49 .

[Steelcan]

StreetMagic wrote...

Cat's out of the bag..

Makes me wonder if I should ever hold it against Legion for the reaper code bit. Maybe it was inevitable he'd never have his own future, like he claimed to want in ME2.

Easier to just sell him.  No character inconsistency

[Nashtalia]

jtav wrote...

I don't think the death of EDI and the geth is nearly as contrived as it's made out to be. Destroy is the choice that tells the Catalyst to go to hell and we don't need it or its "solution." And organics really, really don't. Even the relays can eventually be comprehended and rebuilt. But the synthetics do need the Reapers. Take away their Reaper code and the geth go back to being near-mindless and concerned only with survival. EDI reverts to Hannibal. They die, essentially. If you want to reject the Reapers you can, but that means rejecting their toys too and either rebuilding them yourself or doing without. So EDI and the geth dying makes thematic sense.

*Assuming Direct Quote*

in short, you basically agreed with semi-Indoctrinated Saren when you first meet him in Virmire....that is if you were disagree-ing with him

Modifié par Nashtalia, 02 septembre 2013 - 11:54 .

[Sir DeLoria]

Steelcan wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Cat's out of the bag..

Makes me wonder if I should ever hold it against Legion for the reaper code bit. Maybe it was inevitable he'd never have his own future, like he claimed to want in ME2.

Easier to just sell him.  No character inconsistency

Selling him is great. It's better though to keep him around long enough in order to blast the heretics, side with Tali and have him get fried in the tubes.

[Steelcan]

StreetMagic wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Cat's out of the bag..

Makes me wonder if I should ever hold it against Legion for the reaper code bit. Maybe it was inevitable he'd never have his own future, like he claimed to want in ME2.

Easier to just sell him.  No character inconsistency

Selling him is great. It's better though to keep him around long enough in order to blast the heretics, side with Tali and have him get fried in the tubes.

If you don't have Kasumi, I think he's first in line to die, if you don't get Tali to upgrade the shields.

So the tunnel duty can be for someone else.

[Sir DeLoria]

^:lol:Oh god Steel, you're killing me! 

[2Pac]

StreetMagic wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Cat's out of the bag..

Makes me wonder if I should ever hold it against Legion for the reaper code bit. Maybe it was inevitable he'd never have his own future, like he claimed to want in ME2.

Easier to just sell him.  No character inconsistency

Selling him is great. It's better though to keep him around long enough in order to blast the heretics, side with Tali and have him get fried in the tubes.

If you don't have Kasumi, I think he's first in line to die, if you don't get Tali to upgrade the shields.

So the tunnel duty can be for someone else.

 Really? 

[AlexMBrennan]

Take away their Reaper code and the geth go back to being near-mindless and concerned only with survival

I always though thought were delusional but I didn't know you were that delusional. Seriously, go replay ME2 again - does Legion strike you being particularly mindless? What happened to geth choosing their own way?

Destroy is the choice that tells the Catalyst to go to hell and we don't need it or its "solution"

You completely missed the point of Catalyst's solution: Allegedly organics need it because without it we will all get killed by robots.

Seriously, just go back to writing Liara/space!bin-laden fanfiction.

[The Night Mammoth]

jtav wrote...

It's a matter of theme. Remember Sovereign? "You develop along the paths we desire." Reaper tech is presented as something that stifles the innovative spirit of organics, even as it broadens the minds of synthetics. You want to be free? Well, you're going to have to be free of everything.

Why is being free of the Reaper's technological guidance so desirable? Does it really matter after the Reapers are actually gone that people fly around in ships based off their tech? If organics weren't using this technology, they'd be using different technology, the origin is completely arbitrary. 

It also hasn't stopped innovation or creativity, in fact the only thing really stopping organics from developing outside or beyond the Reaper eventually, is the Reapers themselves and their systematic slaughter sprees, we saw this with the Conduit. The species of the galaxy still needed brilliant scientists and engineers to get where they are, their 'innovative spirit' was just directed somewhere else instead of resulting in pure originality.

And yes, I acknowledge it's a matter of theme, but just because it's a theme doesn't mean anyone needs to accept it or think it's inherently good, and there's more than one side to it as well. The game gives us opportunities to display a stance on the values of knowledge; the two off the top of my head being the Maelon's genophage research and the Collector Base.

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 03 septembre 2013 - 01:09 .

[MegaSovereign]

The Geth weren't fully evolved AIs and they were still capable of throwing the Quarians out of their own turf.

There are inherent advantages of species that aren't held back by organic flesh. There really shouldn't be a need for the writers to try too hard to justify this.

Calling this a "problem" is subjective because this is really within the realm of evolution ("cosmic imperative" as Javik calls it). Organics will have to sink or swim. The Catalyst's solution seems stupid in the first place because there isn't really any objective issues with two factions being inherently different.

[CrutchCricket]

jtav wrote...

It's a matter of theme. Remember Sovereign? "You develop along the paths we desire."

That's not the theme. The theme is you keep what you kill.

The entire Star Wars films technically develop along the path Palpatine desires. Do the Rebels then throw out all the infrastructure and research the Empire has developed? Does anyone in the history of wars, real or fictional?

The answer is no. Empires have been built on the backs of the conquered. Or on their corpses.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 03 septembre 2013 - 01:36 .

[Iakus]

MegaSovereign wrote...

The Geth weren't fully evolved AIs and they were still capable of throwing the Quarians out of their own turf.

There are inherent advantages of species that aren't held back by organic flesh. There really shouldn't be a need for the writers to try too hard to justify this.

Calling this a "problem" is subjective because this is really within the realm of evolution ("cosmic imperative" as Javik calls it). Organics will have to sink or swim. The Catalyst's solution seems stupid in the first place because there isn't really any objective issues with two factions being inherently different.

And the krogan were wholly organic and were very nearly able to take on the entire frakking galaxy at once and win.  And the rachni as well before them

So yeah, the Catalyst's system seems stupid because, outide the Reapers themselves, a synthetic threat was never shown to be a bigger problem than an organic threat.  

In fact, synthetics were never shown to be anyhting other than just another life form.

[Br3admax]

MegaSovereign wrote...

The Geth weren't fully evolved AIs and they were still capable of throwing the Quarians out of their own turf.

There are inherent advantages of species that aren't held back by organic flesh. There really shouldn't be a need for the writers to try too hard to justify this.

Calling this a "problem" is subjective because this is really within the realm of evolution ("cosmic imperative" as Javik calls it). Organics will have to sink or swim. The Catalyst's solution seems stupid in the first place because there isn't really any objective issues with two factions being inherently different.

Look at who leads the quarian military. A  long line of "admirals" like that didn't start in ME2, I can tell you that. It has nothing to do with "flesh" it deals with the incompetence of the galaxies millitaries.