333 réponses à ce sujet

[GreyLycanTrope]

MegaSovereign wrote...

The Geth weren't fully evolved AIs and they were still capable of throwing the Quarians out of their own turf.

There are inherent advantages of species that aren't held back by organic flesh. There really shouldn't be a need for the writers to try too hard to justify this.

Calling this a "problem" is subjective because this is really within the realm of evolution ("cosmic imperative" as Javik calls it). Organics will have to sink or swim. The Catalyst's solution seems stupid in the first place because there isn't really any objective issues with two factions being inherently different.

<3

[wright1978]

jtav wrote...

It's a matter of theme. Remember Sovereign? "You develop along the paths we desire." Reaper tech is presented as something that stifles the innovative spirit of organics, even as it broadens the minds of synthetics. You want to be free? Well, you're going to have to be free of everything.

That's nonsense. There's nothing intrinsic to reaper tech that is stifling. Freedom means being free to take and use whatever tech you want

[TheMyron]

If the salvation solution for organics is to be liquefied alive so that one's Precious Bodily Fluids can be used to build a new Reaper, then what would have been the Final Solution for the Geth according to the Reapers?

[Patchwork]

My understanding was it isn't the tech itself so much as the Reapers not letting civilization develop passed a certain point. There goes their easy victory if they did.

[Sir DeLoria]

TheMyron wrote...

If the salvation solution for organics is to be liquefied alive so that one's Precious Bodily Fluids can be used to build a new Reaper, then what would have been the Final Solution for the Geth according to the Reapers?

Simple extermination, I son't think synthetics can be harvested. The Reapers purge both organic and synthetic races that are too advanced. Harby merely calls them a 'nuisance'. 

[Mcfly616]

wright1978 wrote...

jtav wrote...

It's a matter of theme. Remember Sovereign? "You develop along the paths we desire." Reaper tech is presented as something that stifles the innovative spirit of organics, even as it broadens the minds of synthetics. You want to be free? Well, you're going to have to be free of everything.

That's nonsense. There's nothing intrinsic to reaper tech that is stifling. Freedom means being free to take and use whatever tech you want

jtav is right. Reaper tech is a form of control over organics. Always has been. Pretty symbolic, really.

All tech is based off of it. Nihilus says as such.

[Eterna]

iakus wrote...

 EDI and the geth reverting to ealier pre-Reaper states might make sense.  But their unavoidable deaths makes no sense at all.  They are all different kinds of AIs from different areas and using different tech by different species.  A universal "off button" for all of them is completely unreasonable.

Sure it does. Edi and the Geth are essentially reaper. Destroy gets rid of all things Reaper. It isn't "the geth have reaper code" it's "The geth ARE reaper code". 

I think it is perfectly logical that destroy would also destroy synthetics that are essentially reaper. It is no different then how the wave also destroys husks. 

[Eterna]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

 It's not really sensible. Between the geth, the Reapers, and EDI, it's targetting three very different things. That they're all AI is the only thing they have in common, but how does a wave of energy tell apart AI from... everything else in its wake?

Reaper.

The wave targets husks because they're reaper tech

The Wave targets the Relays because they're reaper tech

The wave targets Reapers because... they're reapers 

The wave targets EDi and the Geth because they're Reaper by products

In the original ending the Catalyst even implies that Shepard will also be targeted due to his/hers synthetic parts. Those Synthetic parts are reaper. 

Destroy Destroys everything that can tace its origins back to Reapers. 

Modifié par Eterna5, 03 septembre 2013 - 10:44 .

[KaiserShep]

Mcfly616 wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

jtav wrote...

It's a matter of theme. Remember Sovereign? "You develop along the paths we desire." Reaper tech is presented as something that stifles the innovative spirit of organics, even as it broadens the minds of synthetics. You want to be free? Well, you're going to have to be free of everything.

That's nonsense. There's nothing intrinsic to reaper tech that is stifling. Freedom means being free to take and use whatever tech you want

jtav is right. Reaper tech is a form of control over organics. Always has been. Pretty symbolic, really.

All tech is based off of it. Nihilus says as such.

Assuming direct [posthumous] control.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 03 septembre 2013 - 10:55 .

[YourFleshIsMine]

Eterna5 wrote...

iakus wrote...

 EDI and the geth reverting to ealier pre-Reaper states might make sense.  But their unavoidable deaths makes no sense at all.  They are all different kinds of AIs from different areas and using different tech by different species.  A universal "off button" for all of them is completely unreasonable.

Sure it does. Edi and the Geth are essentially reaper. Destroy gets rid of all things Reaper. It isn't "the geth have reaper code" it's "The geth ARE reaper code". 

I think it is perfectly logical that destroy would also destroy synthetics that are essentially reaper. It is no different then how the wave also destroys husks. 

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it true that the body that EDI uses was actually made using reaper tech? I seem to remember seeing some logs when attacking the Cerberus home but I'm not sure if I remember that right.

[Mcfly616]

YourFleshIsMine wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

iakus wrote...

 EDI and the geth reverting to ealier pre-Reaper states might make sense.  But their unavoidable deaths makes no sense at all.  They are all different kinds of AIs from different areas and using different tech by different species.  A universal "off button" for all of them is completely unreasonable.

Sure it does. Edi and the Geth are essentially reaper. Destroy gets rid of all things Reaper. It isn't "the geth have reaper code" it's "The geth ARE reaper code". 

I think it is perfectly logical that destroy would also destroy synthetics that are essentially reaper. It is no different then how the wave also destroys husks. 

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it true that the body that EDI uses was actually made using reaper tech? I seem to remember seeing some logs when attacking the Cerberus home but I'm not sure if I remember that right.

EDI already had Reaper tech before she ever infiltrated the EVA body.

[dorktainian]

Mcfly616 wrote...

YourFleshIsMine wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

iakus wrote...

 EDI and the geth reverting to ealier pre-Reaper states might make sense.  But their unavoidable deaths makes no sense at all.  They are all different kinds of AIs from different areas and using different tech by different species.  A universal "off button" for all of them is completely unreasonable.

Sure it does. Edi and the Geth are essentially reaper. Destroy gets rid of all things Reaper. It isn't "the geth have reaper code" it's "The geth ARE reaper code". 

I think it is perfectly logical that destroy would also destroy synthetics that are essentially reaper. It is no different then how the wave also destroys husks. 

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it true that the body that EDI uses was actually made using reaper tech? I seem to remember seeing some logs when attacking the Cerberus home but I'm not sure if I remember that right.

EDI already had Reaper tech before she ever infiltrated the EVA body.

but cerberus arnt working for the reapers.

[crimzontearz]

Thematically it makes sense

But from a purely logistic perspective? nope

Also where is my reunion scene??

[Eterna]

crimzontearz wrote...

Also where is my reunion scene??

In the pile with all the other boring uneeded cliches. 

[jtav]

And you have a "right of conquest" ending. It's called Control. That's one of the reasons I pick it. Destroy is saying, loudly, that you don't need the Reapers.

[crimzontearz]

Eterna5 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Also where is my reunion scene??

In the pile with all the other boring uneeded cliches. 

oh you mean like the Adam and Eve reference? Yep, seems legit


 
Also, "need" is by definition a subjective concept, I am glad YOU thought it to be not needed but do not presume you can make that call for everyone.

[Iakus]

Eterna5 wrote...

iakus wrote...

 EDI and the geth reverting to ealier pre-Reaper states might make sense.  But their unavoidable deaths makes no sense at all.  They are all different kinds of AIs from different areas and using different tech by different species.  A universal "off button" for all of them is completely unreasonable.

Sure it does. Edi and the Geth are essentially reaper. Destroy gets rid of all things Reaper. It isn't "the geth have reaper code" it's "The geth ARE reaper code". 

I think it is perfectly logical that destroy would also destroy synthetics that are essentially reaper. It is no different then how the wave also destroys husks. 

Except they're not.

Both EDI and the geth were developed with technology from this cycle.  They were only later augmented by reaper technology.

By saying they need to die in Destroy is like saying the relays need to rupture and kill the systems  they were in because they benefited from a relay network the Reapers put in place.

[jtav]

The geth do need to die. The impression I got from Rannoch with the VI was that they took such a hit to brainpower in the initial attack that their existence as a sapient species required the Reaper code going forward. And EDI is not EDI without the Reaper parts.

[Iakus]

jtav wrote...

The geth do need to die. The impression I got from Rannoch with the VI was that they took such a hit to brainpower in the initial attack that their existence as a sapient species required the Reaper code going forward. And EDI is not EDI without the Reaper parts.

From Legion itself I got no such impression.  The geth sim[ply got desperate to survive and took the Saren way out.

And EDI is still EDI without reaper upgrades.  Just not as brilliant.  AI personalities develop just like human minds do:  through experience.

[Sir DeLoria]

I can't believe some people actually let the Geth upload the Reaper code in the first place. Didn't people learn anything from Saren?

Modifié par Necanor, 03 septembre 2013 - 01:58 .

[wright1978]

iakus wrote...

jtav wrote...

The geth do need to die. The impression I got from Rannoch with the VI was that they took such a hit to brainpower in the initial attack that their existence as a sapient species required the Reaper code going forward. And EDI is not EDI without the Reaper parts.

From Legion itself I got no such impression.  The geth sim[ply got desperate to survive and took the Saren way out.

And EDI is still EDI without reaper upgrades.  Just not as brilliant.  AI personalities develop just like human minds do:  through experience.

Yeah the Geth feared the loss of their sentience from further losses after the initial attack, not that they were no longer viable after it.

[Ruadh]

Big badda boom = Happy happy joy joy

Take that, stupid robots.

[The Night Mammoth]

jtav wrote...

The geth do need to die. The impression I got from Rannoch with the VI was that they took such a hit to brainpower in the initial attack that their existence as a sapient species required the Reaper code going forward.

If the geth want to move forward as a species after the destruction of the Dyson Sphere all they have to do is make more geth programs. It's not permanent. 

And EDI is not EDI without the Reaper parts.

Why, do the scraps of Sovereign that she's partly composed off affect her personality?

[rekn2]

wright1978 wrote...

jtav wrote...

It's a matter of theme. Remember Sovereign? "You develop along the paths we desire." Reaper tech is presented as something that stifles the innovative spirit of organics, even as it broadens the minds of synthetics. You want to be free? Well, you're going to have to be free of everything.

That's nonsense. There's nothing intrinsic to reaper tech that is stifling. Freedom means being free to take and use whatever tech you want

thats not how its presented. its put forth in the story as being negative. sov explains this to you in me1...you follow our way you get stuck with our way