333 réponses à ce sujet

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Necanor wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

There's a step in the right direction. You're acknowledging that the Quarians are 100% fundamentally at fault for their entire predicament.

But why would you make machines that are sentient and possibly sapient that acknowledge themselves as no threat and vigorously call for them to be disassembled?

What's the point of disassembling them? They're carrying out their function, and they aren't hurting anybody (at least not the ones that weren't built for hurting anyone. And the ones that were built for that function are under full control of the military).

AIs are dangerous, very dangerous. The Quarian were right in their fear, that the Geth would one day rebell, evn if no action was taken. Just look at what happened to the Alliance on Luna.

So EDI was dangerous too? Yes. Yes she was. So is a dreadnought. Or a nuclear weapon. Or other aliens. 

The point is that the Geth have displayed no hostility, and no inkling for hostility when unprovoked. They don't want to have any kind of conflict any more than we do. You're essentially affirming what the Catalyst is saying, which I don't know if you believe in him or not. Why would the Geth rebel? Why is it an absolute certainty? Where are you getting your information? If you created a means for it to perfectly emulate life, wouldn't they adopt our own values? If not, wouldn't you put programming limitations, or even hardware blocks in place to prevent their hostility?

As I recall, the Hannibal VI suffered from flawed programming. That could probably be said for any synthetic that goes 'insane' on its own. 

[Mcfly616]

o Ventus wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

or it simply makes sense because the Geth make up like 99% of all synthetic life in our galaxy.....oh, and they all have Reaper Code.

I don't see what Reaper coding has to do with it. Presumably, every other VI in existence is wiped out as well (unless there's an arbitrary, unexplained hard distinction between simple technology and "synthetic life"), but literally none of those have Reaper programming.

a VI isnt synthetic life. And as I said, Geth make up nearly all synthetic life in the galaxy. And the Geth have Reaper tech/code. When the Crucible targets Reaper tech....why would the Catalyst (who is already vague and frequently speaks in generalizations) feel the need to specify between the Geth and some VI program, when 99% of all synthetic life has Reaper code upgrades....


When it tells you it will destroy all synthetic life, it isn't lying. The Geth and EDI pretty much make up all synthetic life. They will die because of their Reaper ties.

Modifié par Mcfly616, 04 septembre 2013 - 01:44 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Mcfly616 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

or it simply makes sense because the Geth make up like 99% of all synthetic life in our galaxy.....oh, and they all have Reaper Code.

I don't see what Reaper coding has to do with it. Presumably, every other VI in existence is wiped out as well (unless there's an arbitrary, unexplained hard distinction between simple technology and "synthetic life"), but literally none of those have Reaper programming.

a VI isnt synthetic life. And as I said, Geth make up nearly all synthetic life in the galaxy. And the Geth have Reaper tech/code. When the Crucible targets Reaper tech....why would the Catalyst (who is already vague and frequently speaks in generalizations) feel the need to specify between the Geth and some VI program, when 99% of all synthetic life has Reaper code upgrades....

Reminds me of this

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 04 septembre 2013 - 01:42 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

Mcfly616 wrote...
or it simply makes sense because the Geth make up like 99% of all synthetic life in our galaxy.....oh, and they all have Reaper Code.

When has it ever been stated that they make up that much of synthetics life in the galaxy?

[Iakus]

o Ventus wrote...

I don't see what Reaper coding has to do with it. Presumably, every other VI in existence is wiped out as well (unless there's an arbitrary, unexplained hard distinction between simple technology and "synthetic life"), but literally none of those have Reaper programming.

"Even you are partly synthetic."

Shepard doesn't have Reaper programming 

[rekn2]

KaiserShep wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Of course I hold a double standart against the Geth. I don't see them as living beings, the Quarians obviously are.

Applying rules to different groups unfairly doesn't work. The geth are either considered guilty, or they're not living beings. You can't get both. At the same time, if they're not living beings, then fault lies entirely on the Quarians, since they're just machines reacting violently to violent influence.

this is so dumb.

lets shorten everything thats been said into 1 neat paragraph.

cant get more barney style than that

[rekn2]

o Ventus wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Of course I hold a double standart against the Geth. I don't see them as living beings, the Quarians obviously are.

You are fully aware that this renders everything you say on the topic completely irrelevant, right?

ffs people, this needs to move on

[Mcfly616]

iakus wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

I don't see what Reaper coding has to do with it. Presumably, every other VI in existence is wiped out as well (unless there's an arbitrary, unexplained hard distinction between simple technology and "synthetic life"), but literally none of those have Reaper programming.

"Even you are partly synthetic."

Shepard doesn't have Reaper programming 

and yet he survives Destroy.....further evidence that it targets Reaper tech.

[o Ventus]

Mcfly616 wrote...

a VI isnt synthetic life.

According to who? You? What gives you the ability to make this arbitrary distinction? I don't recall context ever being given along with any definition of the term.

And as I said, Geth make up nearly all synthetic life in the galaxy. And the Geth have Reaper tech/code. When the Crucible targets Reaper tech....why would the Catalyst (who is already vague and frequently speaks in generalizations) feel the need to specify between the Geth and some VI program, when 99% of all synthetic life has Reaper code upgrades....

Because 'synthetic life' is never once given a definition by any single person or source of information? But wait, you just said that the geth constitute 99% of synthetic life in our galaxy. You can't be wrong.

[o Ventus]

Mcfly616 wrote...

and yet he survives Destroy.....further evidence that it targets Reaper tech.

Not if you have 3099 or less EMS, he doesn't. That isn't "evidence" for anything. 

Unless you're insinuating that that single EMS point determines whether or not Shepard has Reaper upgrades.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Mcfly616 wrote...

iakus wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

I don't see what Reaper coding has to do with it. Presumably, every other VI in existence is wiped out as well (unless there's an arbitrary, unexplained hard distinction between simple technology and "synthetic life"), but literally none of those have Reaper programming.

"Even you are partly synthetic."

Shepard doesn't have Reaper programming 

and yet he survives Destroy.....further evidence that it targets Reaper tech.

Then why does it target things that aren't based on Reaper tech... Like the Geth? Why doesn't it just purge or delete the Reaper code?

[Mcfly616]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...
or it simply makes sense because the Geth make up like 99% of all synthetic life in our galaxy.....oh, and they all have Reaper Code.

When has it ever been stated that they make up that much of synthetics life in the galaxy?

the Geth are an synthetic AI civilization. Any other AI's are completely off the grid, and few and far between. Do you think that all the rogue AI's of the galaxy would amount to a fraction of the Geth population? Not likely.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

o Ventus wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

and yet he survives Destroy.....further evidence that it targets Reaper tech.

Not if you have 3099 or less EMS, he doesn't. That isn't "evidence" for anything. 

Unless you're insinuating that that single EMS point determines whether or not Shepard has Reaper upgrades.

This is not a prudent point. 

EMS points aside, the Crucible has been so damaged at these levels that it is now a more unstable and destructive device that will now cause a lot of real, physical collateral damage.

[Mcfly616]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

iakus wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

I don't see what Reaper coding has to do with it. Presumably, every other VI in existence is wiped out as well (unless there's an arbitrary, unexplained hard distinction between simple technology and "synthetic life"), but literally none of those have Reaper programming.

"Even you are partly synthetic."

Shepard doesn't have Reaper programming 

and yet he survives Destroy.....further evidence that it targets Reaper tech.

Then why does it target things that aren't based on Reaper tech... Like the Geth? Why doesn't it just purge or delete the Reaper code?

the Geth do have Reaper code. It does purge it. Hence why theres no more Geth.

[Mcfly616]

o Ventus wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

a VI isnt synthetic life.

According to who? You? What gives you the ability to make this arbitrary distinction? I don't recall context ever being given along with any definition of the term.

And as I said, Geth make up nearly all synthetic life in the galaxy. And the Geth have Reaper tech/code. When the Crucible targets Reaper tech....why would the Catalyst (who is already vague and frequently speaks in generalizations) feel the need to specify between the Geth and some VI program, when 99% of all synthetic life has Reaper code upgrades....

Because 'synthetic life' is never once given a definition by any single person or source of information? But wait, you just said that the geth constitute 99% of synthetic life in our galaxy. You can't be wrong.

ah sorry. You're right. Who am I to use common sense to determine that a VI is not "sentient" or alive.

[General TSAR]

rekn2 wrote...

ffs people, this needs to move on

Like the Templar vs Mage debate, this one will never die. 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Mcfly616 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

iakus wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

I don't see what Reaper coding has to do with it. Presumably, every other VI in existence is wiped out as well (unless there's an arbitrary, unexplained hard distinction between simple technology and "synthetic life"), but literally none of those have Reaper programming.

"Even you are partly synthetic."

Shepard doesn't have Reaper programming 

and yet he survives Destroy.....further evidence that it targets Reaper tech.

Then why does it target things that aren't based on Reaper tech... Like the Geth? Why doesn't it just purge or delete the Reaper code?

the Geth do have Reaper code. It does purge it. Hence why theres no more Geth.

Then it's targeting a lot more than just Reaper code. It wouldn't purge the Geth if the Geth weren't made from Reaper code, which they aren't; They hold a Reaper code upgrade, but if destroy targets Reaper tech only, then only the Reaper code would be purged/destroyed. Unless it doesn't, in which case all synthetic life in the galaxy would be destroyed...

Did you read my link? I go into detail on why this is essentially poor writing.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...
or it simply makes sense because the Geth make up like 99% of all synthetic life in our galaxy.....oh, and they all have Reaper Code.

When has it ever been stated that they make up that much of synthetics life in the galaxy?

the Geth are an synthetic AI civilization. Any other AI's are completely off the grid, and few and far between. Do you think that all the rogue AI's of the galaxy would amount to a fraction of the Geth population? Not likely.

You know Citadel space only covers litle over 1% of the galaxy and the rest is unexplored right? Says so in the codex, they even tell you the Reapers have been going through dorment relays that haven't been touched by our cycle so something is clearly still out there for them to harvest, possible AIs included. What's not likely is this 99% of all synthetics you're assuming. And even if they were the majority he flatly stats all synthetics not all synthetics with reaper code.

[Mcfly616]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

iakus wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

I don't see what Reaper coding has to do with it. Presumably, every other VI in existence is wiped out as well (unless there's an arbitrary, unexplained hard distinction between simple technology and "synthetic life"), but literally none of those have Reaper programming.

"Even you are partly synthetic."

Shepard doesn't have Reaper programming 

and yet he survives Destroy.....further evidence that it targets Reaper tech.

Then why does it target things that aren't based on Reaper tech... Like the Geth? Why doesn't it just purge or delete the Reaper code?

the Geth do have Reaper code. It does purge it. Hence why theres no more Geth.

Then it's targeting a lot more than just Reaper code. It wouldn't purge the Geth if the Geth weren't made from Reaper code, which they aren't; They hold a Reaper code upgrade, but if destroy targets Reaper tech only, then only the Reaper code would be purged/destroyed. Unless it doesn't, in which case all synthetic life in the galaxy would be destroyed...

Did you read my link? I go into detail on why this is essentially poor writing.

FYI: Reaper code is Reaper tech. And you assume that Reaper Code works exactly like code works in a PC or something. Presume that Reaper Code is laced into the Geth's core processors or mainframe. Presume that the energy from Destroy, fries all Reaper Tech/Code. That's like frying someone's brain. Presume that the eradication of such code, corrupts the remaining infrastructure.


This isn't a new concept whatsoever. Releasing a weapon that targets only those that are hosts to a certain feature. Such as a virus, or a blood type or a technology etc etc....

[KaiserShep]

I've settled on the idea of the wave working similarly to the repurposed heretic virus, sending out a massive wave throughout the relay network that disrupts technology because of the intensity, but serves primarily to wipe out the reaper code, and the husks disintegrate because they are overrun with nanites that fall apart as they're disrupted. I think it works for me.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 04 septembre 2013 - 02:25 .

[Iakus]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

and yet he survives Destroy.....further evidence that it targets Reaper tech.

Not if you have 3099 or less EMS, he doesn't. That isn't "evidence" for anything. 

Unless you're insinuating that that single EMS point determines whether or not Shepard has Reaper upgrades.

This is not a prudent point. 

EMS points aside, the Crucible has been so damaged at these levels that it is now a more unstable and destructive device that will now cause a lot of real, physical collateral damage.

Breath scene aside, 3099 EMS is identical to 3100 EMS

[Iakus]

KaiserShep wrote...

I've settled on the idea of the wave working similarly to the repurposed heretic virus, sending out a massive wave throughout the relay network that disrupts technology because of the intensity, but serves primarily to wipe out the reaper code, and the husks disintegrate because they are overrun with nanites that fall apart as they're disrupted. I think it works for me.

I reject this ending in its entirety, as I do the other two, as too stupid to tolerate.

[o Ventus]

Mcfly616 wrote...

ah sorry. You're right. Who am I to use common sense to determine that a VI is not "sentient" or alive.

Sentience and life are not wholly the same. Sentience is, in almost any case, indicative of life, but it is not even remotely necessary. Look at any worker bee or ant drone. Unless, by your logic, those aren't alive either.

[rekn2]

o Ventus wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

ah sorry. You're right. Who am I to use common sense to determine that a VI is not "sentient" or alive.

Sentience and life are not wholly the same. Sentience is, in almost any case, indicative of life, but it is not even remotely necessary. Look at any worker bee or ant drone. Unless, by your logic, those aren't alive either.

ameoba

[CrutchCricket]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Your and jtav's interpretation are not mutually exclusive. They're different ways of looking at the same thing. Destroy is thematically anti-synthetic for various reasons I've explained too many times, but it's also thematically Renegade (as in Destroy your enemies completely and don't give them any quarter). Destroy also thematically supports the Lovecraftian stance "Reaper tech is things we aren't meant to know" and the idea that organic life is the only valid life. You need to accept only one of those interpretations to find Destroy a valid ending, and you don't need to buy any of them in the first place, but they're all there, however you want to deny it.

Except it's really not as you can play a Shepard that's totally pro-synthetic throughout the entire series and still wants the Reapers dead and such a thing would not be inconsistent. People don't want them dead because of what they are but because of what they do.

And any Lovecraftian influence the Reapers had was rendered catatonic at the end of ME1, the plug was pulled with the giant Terminator of ME2 and its grave was pissed on when the holokid first opened its mouth. Reaper tech is only shunned because it's downright lethal 99% of the time. There is no prescriptive influence, just proven paranoia.

I acknowledge that it is a possible interpretation (that one can make, if they really want to). But given that it's a stupid-ass intepretation (with all due respect to and no personal ire against, its proponents), I've elected to oppose it whenever it may come up.